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Old 29th July 2011, 17:38   #1306
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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
Bad news --- should not go below 9.5 in any case while cranking
Yes, after 4 hours of charging it doesn't go below 9.5V while cranking.
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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
dont see a problem here , check the charging voltage & current
Yes, I told him that should not be an issue, I described my logic in post #1302. After all, I am an electronics engineer by qualification, I remember at least that much.

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
dont think so ( wrt full charge ) I would do it for at least 6 hrs
That was my electrician's opinion. But after 4 hours, I decided to take matters into hand. Since it was still charging, I decided to check the current, it was about 2.5A and my battery is 90AH. At that rate from zero to full it should take 45hours. But charging current doesn't work like that. If I recall my electronics knowledge, the current will be maximum at the beginning of the charging, but then the current flow will continuously reduce until hitting zero at full charge, at least theoretically. Due to losses, it may never become zero. Anyway, forget that.

Still, I wanted to find out whether the 2.5A current flow is limited by the charger or the battery which may be nearly charged. So we connected the battery back and started the Jeep. At idle there was zero current. Then I realised that the red light on the dash is on, which means alternator circuit is not yet connected to the battery.

Just taking a dumb guess here, when this light is on, does it mean the battery is still connected to the starter/ignition circuit? I gave a little A-petal, the light switched off, and current started flowing from alternator of the battery.

This is how we measured the current.

Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family-img_20110729_155647.jpg

Now the current was 3A, which could be because alternator is supplying little higher voltage. This means the current limitation is not with the charger. The battery is charged enough that now it is taking only 2.5A and it will reduce further in an hour.

Now I raised the engine revvs, I was expecting the amperage to increase, thinking alternator might give out even higher voltage. But the amps decreased whenever I raised the engine. So, I am puzzled. Why does alternator voltage decrease when the engine is revved harder?


At the same time we noticed diesel smell, and looked around. The diesel was freely pouring from the left side. I opened the hood and noticed that fuel return pipe was disengaged. This is not the first time. At the end of Avalakonda OTR, same thing had happened, which svsantosh had brought to my notice.

We tried to tighten it, but it was still a little slippery. So the electrician tied it like this until we find a permanent solution.

Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family-img_20110729_161153.jpg
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Old 29th July 2011, 18:44   #1307
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UPS chargers use the 10 hours charge rating to maintain long battery life. Automobile circuits charge at a high rate initially and then slow down.

Your battery is definitely bad, as the voltage keeps decreasing with time. Good battery retains its charge for at least one month.
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Old 29th July 2011, 19:05   #1308
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Just tested with a battery hydrometer.

The reading for 6 cells are as follows:

1.13----1.15----1.17----1.16----1.17----1.18

I have read that it should not be below 1.225 at 75% charge. So this is definitely bad. After removing the surface charge, the battery level is at 12.2V only.

I had installed this battery on 14th March 2009. The main reason for the battery failure is my current vagabond situation, I often don't touch the Jeep for 2-3 weeks every month.

Will it hold the charge until tomorrow, I am wondering. And can I use the Winch with this battery at all? I doubt it.

Last edited by Samurai : 29th July 2011 at 19:34.
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Old 29th July 2011, 19:59   #1309
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
== At idle there was zero current. Then I realised that the red light on the dash is on, which means alternator circuit is not yet connected to the battery. ==

===Just taking a dumb guess here, when this light is on, does it mean the battery is still connected to the starter/ignition circuit? I gave a little A-petal, the light switched off, and current started flowing from alternator of the battery.
well I am no expert here ,but few things I can tell for sure ( BTW I am a Caterer ,a cook to say & studied law --- seriously now add this to disclaimer )

Now back to topic ( In simple language )

1) Red light staying on at Idle reasons :

a) Normal , happens , also means the field is connected / battery full (theoretically ) / or the wire is earthed ( slipped out of connector & touching body )

b) Idle speed low , not enough speed for alternator

c) fan belt loose


2) there are two wires connected to alternator ( old types -- found usually on our Jeeps )

a) smaller dia wire ,actuates Field of alternator . Path >> main switch> bulb ( the 'Red' ) > alternator ( regulator )

Now when you switch on the main switch/ ign switch the current flows from battery to alternator via the bulb ( Red )

b ) A thicker / larger dia wire that is connected permanently to the battery +ve via the vehicle electrical circuit . Now this wire carries larger amount of charging current from alternator to battery

c ) there can be a third wire which is normally seen on new gen vehicle & that is mostly for the rpm pulse


Quote:
Now I raised the engine revvs, I was expecting the amperage to increase, thinking alternator might give out even higher voltage. But the amps decreased whenever I raised the engine. So, I am puzzled. Why does alternator voltage decrease when the engine is revved harder?
making me thinking too , anyways check the 'Voltage ' by directly connecting the mm wires across terminals ( not inductive way )


Sudarshan

P.S. using winch looks risky here , dont take a chance unless you are 100% sure abt the whole charging circuit & Battery offcourse .

Last edited by Sudarshan : 29th July 2011 at 20:11.
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Old 30th July 2011, 10:43   #1310
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Just tested with a battery hydrometer.

The reading for 6 cells are as follows:

1.13----1.15----1.17----1.16----1.17----1.18

I have read that it should not be below 1.225 at 75% charge. So this is definitely bad. After removing the surface charge, the battery level is at 12.2V only.

I had installed this battery on 14th March 2009. The main reason for the battery failure is my current vagabond situation, I often don't touch the Jeep for 2-3 weeks every month.

Will it hold the charge until tomorrow, I am wondering. And can I use the Winch with this battery at all? I doubt it.
1. The cell voltages for lead acid battery are 2.2V, which means that fully charged battery will be 13.2V. The charging voltage is normally 14-14.5V.

2. Fresh lead acid batteries if properly manufactured, have extremely low leakage, and will retain charge for at least three months. Translated - you can start your car after three months of no battery activity!

3. Major culprits for battery discharge, apart from the battery itself are
- wiring faults. Some current leaking away when the engine is switched off
- alternator fault, like leaking diodes
- discharge through the starter motor (very rare), as there is a starter switch in the circuit, but you never know.

To check if the battery is the culprit
- charge the battery fully
- disconnect both the terminals of the battery
- measure the voltage across the disconnected terminals, should be around 13.2V
- after a couple of days measure the voltage again. If the voltage is below 12.5V, the battery is definitely defective. If below 12V it is pretty well at its last stage. Below 11.5V as good as dead.

In case the battery is not the culprit, then there must be wiring/alternator fault. If you have time disconnect the alternator and check the voltage next day. If OK do a systematic check of the wiring.
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Old 30th July 2011, 11:04   #1311
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For leakage / discharge check the simplest often neglected point also--

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Old 31st July 2011, 02:34   #1312
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Just got back for a fabulous OTR. I did 5 winching operations today with this battery, in one long tow operation, winch cable overheated and starting smoking.
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Old 31st July 2011, 10:42   #1313
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Just got back for a fabulous OTR. I did 5 winching operations today with this battery, in one long tow operation, winch cable overheated and starting smoking.
That could be the reason. You may have drawn too much current for too long, and one or more cells have given up. Let us see how much current is drawn

Warn Industries - Jeep, Truck & SUV Winches: M8000

The table states that for 1810 kg the current drawn is 285A. Theoretically an 80AH battery can sustain this for around 17 minutes before going flat. If your alternator can supply 80A peak, then the duration before going flat is 23 minutes. In reality the the battery fails at least 20% faster. So for all practical purpose a sustained winching of around 20+ minutes will run the battery down and may take it to deep discharge. As automotive batteries; unlike UPS batteries; are not deep discharge friendly, you can easily ruin a new battery with sustained winching!

Shorts gaps of half an hour between winching will extend the total winching time by five to ten minutes only.
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Old 31st July 2011, 20:18   #1314
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Samu - how about the thought of 'charging-servicing' the battery after every OTR/ multiple winching ops'? The battery is one of the most neglected critical components and a 100Rs full checkup should be made part of every OTR check list.
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Old 31st July 2011, 20:50   #1315
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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Samu - how about the thought of 'charging-servicing' the battery after every OTR/ multiple winching ops'? The battery is one of the most neglected critical components and a 100Rs full checkup should be made part of every OTR check list.
Or you can invest in a good battery charger, with selectable charge rates and a hygrometer so that you know what is happening.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 17:27   #1316
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Hello Sharat and others,

I am not trying to Hijack this thread . But it is somewhat related to CJ340 but not with the issue that you are facing now. I too have a CJ340 and want to change all the four shock absorbers to gas filled ones or from bilstein. My question is the following.

Will the ride improve by only changing the Shocks ?
Will Bilstein Shocks be of great advantage over gas filled shocks in a Jeep?
What should I ask in the spare parts shop to get a gas filled shock ? . Any part number of anything else.
If its bilstein which shock should I use for CJ340 ?

I didnt want to start a new thread for this and thats the reason i posted on this thread.

Babu
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Old 3rd August 2011, 18:23   #1317
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Hello Sharat and others,
===========
I didnt want to start a new thread for this and thats the reason i posted on this thread.

Babu
Please be careful while selecting shocks for CJ, length and load capacity are key to this. Once you get reliable data on this its pretty straight forward. Yes ride improves a bit. Robinson has procomps on his CJ and they are pretty good.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 22:30   #1318
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What should I ask in the spare parts shop to get a gas filled shock ? . Any part number of anything else.
If its bilstein which shock should I use for CJ340 ?
Arka had already answered it once.

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The Bilstein 5100 series for CJ5 =
F4-B46-0250H0 & F4B46-0260H0
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Old 3rd August 2011, 22:59   #1319
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Arka had already answered it once.
CJ5 and CJ3 are the same? Travel and kerb weight?
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Old 4th August 2011, 10:39   #1320
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CJ5 and CJ3 are the same? Travel and kerb weight?
Seems to be the same wheelbase and weight.

Jeep CJ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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