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Old 12th September 2009, 03:45   #196
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What can i say. Two experts with the same advice. I am having double thoughts.

UBSji i know this geometry is quite crazy but it was done on my insistance so we could fit the pwr steering in the engine bay. Could you tell me why you think it would be unsafe? You mean on an otr right?
You have to guide me on this one as i an an absolute novice in jeeps and have had no experience at all.

Thanks, awaiting your reply.
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Old 12th September 2009, 10:35   #197
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Dear Gogi - to reply to your query, I would like to mention that steering systems cannot be designed in garages. First you have to make a layout, check articulation clearances, verify that none of the ball joints will neck out (means turn to one side so the ball and socket clearence becomes zero), check for caster effect and scrub radius effect and then optimize it. It is an R&D job. Please do not take any chances. I had also indicated this when we saw your Jeep last time. Please revert to production aggregates and please also undo the changes done to the chassis.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 12th September 2009, 11:44   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U.B.Singh View Post
A stock RHD short wheel base CJ3B with 'XLO' steering gear gives the feel of power steering if Nylon 6.00-16 tyres are used.
Gogi I am running the standard 600x16 tyres on my CJ3B, don't know about the XLO gear (UBS how do I know if my CJ3B has that? was it a OE fitment?) and as UBS says the steering is light and one barely feels the need for power assist.
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Old 12th September 2009, 11:47   #199
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Dear Mr.DKG - ref your query, there will be "XLO" embossed either on the drop arm or on the steering gearbox body.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 12th September 2009, 11:57   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Mr.DKG - ref your query, there will be "XLO" embossed either on the drop arm or on the steering gearbox body.
Thanks Mr. Dhabhar, will check this out. I assume both you and UBS would recommend upgrading to this gear set if mine doesn't have it?
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Old 12th September 2009, 12:58   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotzuk View Post
Thanks Gogi. You are far too kind. In reality, however, I am way far from what you perceive!!


Sir, AFAIK the "O" position means all lights off.
Then moving towards "1" (DAY) would turn on front and rear parking lamps.
Then at "2" the headlamps.

For the BO light circuit, may I suggest the following?

Moving it to "S1" would turn on the front BO marker lights.
Moving to "S2" the rear BO marker lights.
At "S3" you can connect the main BO driving light on fender to come on.

Cheers


Edit: Please keep that RCL windscreen. Maybe you could get a glass insert in the "U" section to keep out wind and water.
Thanks for the advice Vaibhav. Will ask my electric guy to follow that.

Yes i am keeping the Rcl windscreen. Putting a u shaped glass seems like a good idea. Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Gogi - to reply to your query, I would like to mention that steering systems cannot be designed in garages. First you have to make a layout, check articulation clearances, verify that none of the ball joints will neck out (means turn to one side so the ball and socket clearence becomes zero), check for caster effect and scrub radius effect and then optimize it. It is an R&D job. Please do not take any chances. I had also indicated this when we saw your Jeep last time. Please revert to production aggregates and please also undo the changes done to the chassis.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Yes Sir. I think i will inform my guy to revert back immediately and will get the XLO box like UBSji and you have recommended. As the Jeep is in its completion stage (much time has gone into the power steering) i can reverse all that. Thanks for putting me in the right direction. So you are saying that i fthe power steering would be fitted on the bumper, outside the engine bay, it is ok? May i revert to that then or are you recommending a total scrap of power steering intoto. It will save me a lot of muscle work when parking in Mumbai traffic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Gogi I am running the standard 600x16 tyres on my CJ3B, don't know about the XLO gear (UBS how do I know if my CJ3B has that? was it a OE fitment?) and as UBS says the steering is light and one barely feels the need for power assist.
Thanks Deepak. I guess i got carried away

Should remember i am not a technician and a Jeep Guru like Ubsji, Behrambhai and all others.


This is what it looked like a couple of days ago.
Guys thanks for all the valuable advice and please keep it coming. I dont mind letting the project get delayed for a few days more but i need it to be picture perfect. Please keep your valuable inputs coming through direct posts and if someone wants to abuse me, please use the PM

Thanks guys. Really appreciate it.

A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07678-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07679-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07680-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07682-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07683-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07684-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07687-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07688-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07689-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07690-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07698-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07699-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07700-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07701-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07702-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07704-large.jpg


Awaiting comments and advice.
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Old 12th September 2009, 13:24   #202
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Dear Gogi - no power steering, inside or outside. Period. Please revert to all production aggregates. Please do not compromise on safety. You will have to block all the holes that you have made in the body for the steering column and go back to the original system (original photographs are there on page 1 of this thread). Please do not weaken the body shell structure. It will lead to failure.

I once again reiterate that such things cannot be done by garages. You need a totally different way of thinking + all facilities including "fma" (failure mode analysis) & prediction.

I hope the chassis changes are reversible and that you will be able to go back to the original aggregates once again.

I'll come with you and see the jeep when i am in mumbai.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 15th September 2009 at 12:35. Reason: Changed case
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Old 13th September 2009, 12:06   #203
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"Hello Gogi Sahab,
Your humble acceptance of the faulty modification is appreciable to me.
No captain desires to encounter rough sea just before anchoring. Your jeep is just about to roll off, and what an issue raised !!!!!
Please understand why I have alarmed you.
If you were to damage/break some part with muscle power, you would have felt it, but what can you say when the powered box is going to strike.
It might sound stupid, if you were advised to try out a FC bell crank and route the tie rods as in a left-hand jeep. Catch hold of Behram Sahab, and ask him if that could be done to your existing setup on inspection.
I am sure if 'jugaads' were done intelligently with common sense, they could be successful even without any R&D.
A small story off topic though........
While designing my son's low bonnet in 2003-04 with International B275 diesel, I was facing a near impossible task of maintaining the left side steering, all because of the starter and fuel pump on the left side.
Researched and found that a Nissan one ton truck's steering box could be tried and installed between the starter and pump with neat linkages.
It was a hit and after doing 4500 kms in a Himalayan Rally and then traveling 1500 miles on no roads during The Great Arc Recce, the system has been accepted as fool proof.
Not to forget the PTO drive also went from the left to power the winch.
Twelve days cross country needs a good and reliable steering system pushing 7.00-16 BKT NDMS wheels over no virtual roads.
So don't loose heart, and closely observe that your front cross member has provision for installing the FC truck's bell crank. You will only have to drill three holes and bolt the assy on. A cool inspection and application, may solve your countdown blues. You know whom to catch? Go ahead.
FYI, all left hand steering linkages driven from a bell crank mounted at the cross member are same. The long tie rod (LHD type) is fitted to the bell crank arm , and drive is sent to both knuckles directly by two pipes with suitable ends. The FC unit can do the trick I presume without proper inspection.
No offence meant at all, just a suggestion.
If you have to revert to basics, then buy a brand new 'Ranee' steering box with universal joints. Costs around Rs. 4500 or so. Better than XLO.
Wish you all the best and with you always,
yours..................................... UBS"
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Old 14th September 2009, 22:00   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Thanks for the advice Vaibhav. Will ask my electric guy to follow that.

Yes i am keeping the Rcl windscreen. Putting a u shaped glass seems like a good idea. Thanks



Yes Sir. I think i will inform my guy to revert back immediately and will get the XLO box like UBSji and you have recommended. As the Jeep is in its completion stage (much time has gone into the power steering) i can reverse all that. Thanks for putting me in the right direction. So you are saying that i fthe power steering would be fitted on the bumper, outside the engine bay, it is ok? May i revert to that then or are you recommending a total scrap of power steering intoto. It will save me a lot of muscle work when parking in Mumbai traffic.



Thanks Deepak. I guess i got carried away

Should remember i am not a technician and a Jeep Guru like Ubsji, Behrambhai and all others.


This is what it looked like a couple of days ago.
Guys thanks for all the valuable advice and please keep it coming. I dont mind letting the project get delayed for a few days more but i need it to be picture perfect. Please keep your valuable inputs coming through direct posts and if someone wants to abuse me, please use the PM

Thanks guys. Really appreciate it.


Awaiting comments and advice.
Great work happening, cosmetically. Its good to see the body removed and chassis worked on separately. I can see that although he garage seems ok equipped, does do some significant work, can see a Mercedes W126 being worked on along side an american classic, cant figure out the name though.
Will love to see your hurricane engined jeep run. Last I had heard as a kid, obviously fuel was sub Rs.15 then.
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Old 14th September 2009, 23:34   #205
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gogi finish the paintjob and get it in to milestone. dont experiment on the mechanicals anymore. it might take a bit longer. but after the thorough cosmetic job you might as well get it right mechanically. i was also thinking of power steering on Babu, but then I thought people have used it for years without and have not complained so why not atleast try it out on non assist for a while

let me know whenever you want to go i will come with you

cheers
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Old 15th September 2009, 12:13   #206
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Hi Gogi
I have been driving around my CJ3B for 3-4 months now and have driven it quite much in the sweltering heat, rains and the frustrating traffic in Delhi.
I will like to say just one thing that CJ3B do not require a power steering. The steering is very lite and needs little to no effort at all!!!
Before doing anything try driving someone's CJ3B in Mumbai traffic and then too if you require the need for a P/S go for one on the front bumper itself!!!

OT
I have recently removed the PS from my MM550 as I was not happy with the performance as I believe that if it was required or had been successful the company M&M might definitely done R&D with it and supplied the vehicle with it. So now that its not there then we should definitely drive our vehicles without it

Last edited by harjeev : 15th September 2009 at 12:16.
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Old 15th September 2009, 12:54   #207
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Dear Gogi Sir (V-16)

I recently acquired a CJ340 (diesel one) and it has a similar steering setup like a CJ3B (i think). I was a car guy myself until 1 month ago. I have started using the Jeep for daily bangy drives and parked my car inside for good.

Observations:

1) Vauge yes, difficult NO. (In running)
2) Stationery Turn (to come out behind a bus stopped in the middle lane) - nearly impossible (but hey, little difficult with any non pwr str car, try alto!!)
3) A Mistake while reversing, to correct it (go front and change angle) you will curse the steering a bit, but frankly not difficult at all.
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Old 15th September 2009, 15:13   #208
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Default Reverting BackTo The Original Steering But At Authorised M&M Place.

Thanks guys for all the valuable advice. Thanks UBSji and Behrambhai for showing me the right path. Thanks for everything Arka.

Since the Jeep is almost done i will take delivery as is where is and drive her straight to Ferdi of Milestone (Mahindra & Mahindra authorised service station and a Jeep enthusiast himself) to reverse the position. I know it will be more easy to reverse the situation now but there are two things;

1) I dont want to hurt the feelings of my mechanic
and
2) The reversal when done at a professional authorised place will be done exactly like clockwork. I will also get on the job advice and will fix someother stuff which needs fixing.

See, this guy is a very sweet person and is very accommodating. After he has gone through all this to set up my Jeep (though wrongly as pointed by Gurus) i will take the delivery with the PD set up i have told him to leave the original mounts, etc as is on the Jeep in case we feel we have to reverse the system. I can drive it for a few days o road and then take an appointment with Ferdi to reverse the system. He can be told later that it didnt work and i didnt like it so i reversed it. Everyone's happy and the time taken will be far lesser than if he tries to reverse the whole thing. I hope im getting across.

Yes it will cost me a trifle bit more on the labour but damn that. Thats an occupational hazard i have to take. I just dont like hurting anyone's feelings even if the vehicle is owned by me and he means good. When i proposed this to him, he said "Dont worry Bahijaan, mai baithaa hoon na. Aapke pehle OTR mein main aap ke saath challoonga apni gaadi saath le kar. Any problems, you can come back in my car and ill take care of the Jeep." I have been showing him OTR pics form various threads to give him an idea of what i expect the Jeep to go through, without a failure and any problems.

Today the Jeep must have been finished with the paint job. Here are a few pics which i took a few days ago, i.e. the next day after i took the previous set of pics and before i was pointed in the right direction by all of you. These pics are when the undercoat was sprayed, before all the bushes, clips etc were replaced and nuts bolts etc tightened.

Will go again today and take fresh pics and post them. Meanwhile check these out.

A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07721-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07722-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07723-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07724-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07725-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07730-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07729-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07731-large.jpg
A Jeep At Last. Now What??!!-dsc07732-large.jpg

Last edited by V-16 : 15th September 2009 at 15:15.
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Old 15th September 2009, 16:11   #209
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Gogi bhai,

Good to see that you have decided to get the JEEP back to its stock form. Trust me, a CJ3B running on 6.00x16 NDMS hardly requires power steering. I have been using my CJ500D regularly in City and Highways, though the steering is not as butter smooth as my Scorpio but it still is quite decent.

I had received the same advice from UBS sir and Behram ji to keep the JEEP in stock condition and enjoy off-roading. A CJ3B in its stock form is one of the best off-roaders ever made.

Lets give a standing ovation to the designers of this little 4 Wheel drive wonder.
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Old 15th September 2009, 19:56   #210
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Gogi Bhai,
Your vehicle is coming out really good. Eexcellent Paint choice, i am feeling nostalagic, i had the same colour on my first Jeep with dark Brown Camouflage (Willys 63 LHD) Eleven Years Back.
You made a good decision , its good that you are not hurting someones feelings who has spent tremendous amount of time and hard work on your product.

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
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