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View Poll Results: Ideal Indian Off-Roader
Engine - Diesel 108 88.52%
Engine - Petrol 15 12.30%
Chassis - C- Section 7 5.74%
Chassis - Box - Section 37 30.33%
Chassis - Tubular 59 48.36%
Gearbox - 4 Speed 13 10.66%
Gearbox - 5 Speed 105 86.07%
Axles - IFS - Coil 25 20.49%
Axles - IFS - Torsion-Bar 25 20.49%
Axles - IRS - Coil 23 18.85%
Axles - FFFA (Full-Floating Front Axle) 63 51.64%
Axles - FFRA (Full-Floating Rear Axle) 74 60.66%
Suspension - Leafspring 34 27.87%
Suspension - Multi-Link Coil 80 65.57%
Body Style - Soft-Top 63 51.64%
Body Style - Hard-Top 52 42.62%
Body Style - SC/DC Pickup 21 17.21%
Wheel Base - SWB - Below 91 inches 48 39.34%
Wheel Base - MWB- 91-95 inches 62 50.82%
Wheel Base - LWB - 103-130 inches 9 7.38%
Diff-Lock/LSD - Front 92 75.41%
Diff-Lock/LSD - Rear 99 81.15%
Steering System - Manual Power 19 15.57%
Steering System - Hydraulic Power 102 83.61%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 9th August 2008, 12:09   #16
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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
I believe you could call this "pitching" (atleast when it comes to boats - pitch, roll, yaw = rotation on the 3 axes)
I guess it is used in the automotive world also, yaw, roll and pitch are all there for sure in aviation and auto !!
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Old 9th August 2008, 19:56   #17
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I am awaiting DKG's rebuttal to Mr.Dhabhar argument, where is he?
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Old 10th August 2008, 11:27   #18
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I am awaiting DKG's rebuttal to Mr.Dhabhar argument, where is he?
Samurai sure you don't descend from a rather infamous Muni (sage)?

My choice as of today is the FJ Cruiser from Toyota. No company in today's market can rival Toyota when it comes to sheer build quality, reliability, comfort and offroad prowess as a package. In my mind there is no contest. Having used Toyota products extensively both onroad and offroad the FJ cruiser suits me perfect

For hardcore monkeying around I'd put my money in a custom built buggy.

Having said that if the esteemed group of enthusiasts at TBHP swear by the venerable Jeep all I say is to " to each his own"

BTW on a VFM note Mr Dhabhar is bang on. But life to me was never about VFM !!

Last edited by DKG : 10th August 2008 at 11:33.
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Old 10th August 2008, 12:01   #19
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though i agree with DKG, its toyota all the way around the world.

100 toyota Hilux/Tacoma double cabins were "donated" by toyota usa to american special forces to be used in Afghanistan instead of clumsy humvees, which could not match toyotas used by taliban/Al Qaida.

humvees could be seen from far, they are big and clumsy, takes times to turn around, have diesel engine, cant fit in narrow roads of afghan villages.

also toyota told US special forces not to remove the toyota badging from the vehicles, thats why the vehicles were "donated" to US special forces!

[SIZE=3]What makes this so significant is that there are major differences between the Tacoma which is exclusively sold in the United States and Canada and nowhere else and the Hilux trucks which are sold everywhere else in the world, including the ones used by the Taliban and the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan The Tacoma uses an entirely different suspension and frame and some (including myself) have questioned it's strength compared to the older Toyota trucks and the current Hilux. From these photos we can see that the Tacoma is being used under perhaps the harshest conditions imaginable for a truck and with very heavy loads, and they are apparently being used in combat! There is no greater test for a 4x4 than how it performs in both desert and mountainous conditions in actual combat. While this is the expected norm for any other Toyota it is very impressive to see that even the Tacoma can live up to the Toyota name. And it's nice to see that our troops believe the Tacoma is tough enough to put their own lives on the line with it. No doubt, the Tacomas are holding up despite some questionable design features of the frame and front end.

So, the obvious question is, why ship brand new Tacomas all the way from the United States, when Middle East, Europe and Asia is full of Hilux trucks, which include a heavier duty frame, suspension and diesel engines. The answer is that was simply easier for the Special Forces to buy them from local U.S. dealers, outfit them as they needed and ship them over. The reason why the 4 door Tacoma was chosen as the vehicle, is because Toyotas are very popular in Afghanistan and they would not stand out as much as the Humvees. In addition, the gas V-6 engines are much quieter than the diesel engines of the Humvees and other military transport vehicles and better suited to daytime and nighttime covert operations. Finally, the Tacoma is a durable and reliable 4x4.

From Mr. Slim, via email: A lot of the trucks came from Fort Campbell. Some of the mods Including all interior and
exterior lights and door buzzers disconnected along with the radios. Roll cage and mount for an M60 machine gun, WARN winch, cheap brush guard, and 2 antenna mounts. The 3.4 V-6 engines had no mods. that I know of. One of the coolest things is that the front lights were changed to infrared for night vision. [/SIZE]

MilitaryTacoma

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Old 10th August 2008, 20:50   #20
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This was a PR stunt by Toyota of North America. Nothing like having the home boys drive picks ups made in good old US of A. The Tacoma shares it's platform with the 4 runner SUV, The landcruiser Prado and the Lexus GX470. The US versions are built in a plant in North America. The hilux shares it's platform with the Fortuner.
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Old 10th August 2008, 21:03   #21
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
This was a PR stunt by Toyota of North America. Nothing like having the home boys drive picks ups made in good old US of A. The Tacoma shares it's platform with the 4 runner SUV, The landcruiser Prado and the Lexus GX470. The US versions are built in a plant in North America. The hilux shares it's platform with the Fortuner.

I totally agree. This is just a pathetic P.R. stunt, to make dumb rednecks accept Toyota products.

Bright red color vehicles make really good targets. What were they thinking?
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Old 10th August 2008, 23:11   #22
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well i would say it was THE PR stunt of the whole Global War On Terror!

cheers:
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Old 11th August 2008, 10:12   #23
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These very Tacoma/Tundras had Chassis Failures (Rear Leaf Spring Front Hanger)

And Later all owners were given a replacement under full warranty.

A lot of after market kits were introduced to strengthen the product.

Also Read what has been said about the CJ3B/CL340 vs a Toyota Hi-Lux,
in the M&M 4WD vs Modern 4WD.
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Old 11th August 2008, 23:40   #24
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Rehaan - your comment above is correct. Please understand that the CL340 is the original world war 2 jeep. For having a good and really useable 4WD capability, the vehicle must be as light and nimble as possible and the engine / transmission / transfer case combination must have enough grunt to pull it out of the most tight situations. Other attributes like good ground clearance with everything underfloor out of harm's way is considered a given. Show me any other 4WD which has the fuel tank under the seat (no rock can break it). Show me any other 4WD in which the fuel will not change vertical height in the tank much even when the vehicle is tilted sideways or anywhich ways (so as to avoid fuel starvation under extreme offroading sorties). Show me any other 4WD which has a 5.38:1 (high) axle ratio. Show me any other 4WD which has a 48" (just about sufficient, not an inch more) wheel track. Arre baba, show me any other 4WD which has such fantastic visibility while reversing in offroad tricky situations (you are looking over your shoulder at the end of the car as you reverse). Show me any other 4WD which is a right royal pain in the *** to drive on-road (the CL340 is not supposed to be driven on road) but which is in a class of its own once you leave the road. By the way, GTO's 340 is a classic which does not have 5.38:1 axle ratio, it has 4.88:1 axle ratio (same as MM540). Now you decide!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
As an owner of a CL340, I hate to criticize it, but, I have had several occasions when fuel starvation made the engine stall in off-camber situations.

I would say that the engine tends to stall in moderate sideways tilted situations.
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Old 13th August 2008, 00:02   #25
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Rehaan - your comment above is correct. Please understand that the CL340 is the original world war 2 jeep. For having a good and really useable 4WD capability, the vehicle must be as light and nimble as possible and the engine / transmission / transfer case combination must have enough grunt to pull it out of the most tight situations. Other attributes like good ground clearance with everything underfloor out of harm's way is considered a given. Show me any other 4WD which has the fuel tank under the seat (no rock can break it). Show me any other 4WD in which the fuel will not change vertical height in the tank much even when the vehicle is tilted sideways or anywhich ways (so as to avoid fuel starvation under extreme offroading sorties). Show me any other 4WD which has a 5.38:1 (high) axle ratio. Show me any other 4WD which has a 48" (just about sufficient, not an inch more) wheel track. Arre baba, show me any other 4WD which has such fantastic visibility while reversing in offroad tricky situations (you are looking over your shoulder at the end of the car as you reverse). Show me any other 4WD which is a right royal pain in the *** to drive on-road (the CL340 is not supposed to be driven on road) but which is in a class of its own once you leave the road. By the way, GTO's 340 is a classic which does not have 5.38:1 axle ratio, it has 4.88:1 axle ratio (same as MM540). Now you decide!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
What do you think of LR defender 90, if TATA decide to sell it here. As it outdoes all of above.
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Old 13th August 2008, 09:43   #26
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I think at one time Land Rover made a very fine vehicle. Once upon a time. Look at where J.D. Power puts it for 2008. This is problems reported per 100 vehicles. The average is 206.

Since the 1970s this company has changed partners and owners so many times that the only thing that remains is the badge. She was once a great gal but now she is just a well used wh*re. Anybody want to buy some high priced sloppy seconds, and thirds, and fourths? How about dead last?

Lexus 120
Mercury 151
Cadillac 155
Toyota 159
Acura 160
Buick 163
BMW 164
Lincoln 165
Honda 177
Jaguar 178
Porsche 193
Mitsubishi 197
Hyundai 200
Ford 204
Infiniti 204
Audi 207
Mercedes-Benz 215
Nissan 224
Pontiac 225
GMC 226
Mazda 228
Subaru 228
Chrysler 229
Dodge 230
Mini 233
Chevrolet 239
Hummer 241
Scion 243
Volvo 244
Saturn 250
Jeep 253
Volkswagen 253
Saab 254
Isuzu 274
Kia 278
Suzuki 302
Land Rover 344

Last edited by DirtyDan : 13th August 2008 at 09:48.
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Old 13th August 2008, 09:55   #27
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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Lexus 120
Mercury 151
Cadillac 155
Toyota 159
Acura 160
Buick 163
BMW 164
Lincoln 165
Honda 177
Jaguar 178
Porsche 193
Mitsubishi 197
Hyundai 200
Ford 204
Infiniti 204
Audi 207
Mercedes-Benz 215
Nissan 224
Pontiac 225
GMC 226
Mazda 228
Subaru 228
Chrysler 229
Dodge 230
Mini 233
Chevrolet 239
Hummer 241
Scion 243
Volvo 244
Saturn 250
Jeep 253
Volkswagen 253
Saab 254
Isuzu 274
Kia 278
Suzuki 302
Land Rover 344
Dan this list is a joke. Up until 2000 when I had considerable exposure to practically every brand made from the US the best adjective I could come up with was "trash"

This list at best illustrates the veracity of those American brand dealers in "wining and dining" their customers to curry favour and win browning points.

Whether its magazines or such surveys its a known fact these are powerful marketing tools and a lot of money gets spent to get favourable responses.

You have to take these with a pinch of salt.

The Japanese three are the best followed by the Germans. Everything else is a distant score in terms of sheer real world reliability and build quality.

Sadly the Brits were not too far from the Americans.
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Old 13th August 2008, 10:02   #28
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This list doesn't make sense to me, considering lot of us are very happy with second dead last company. Also, what is Mercury doing in second place while Ford is not even in top 10? I have owned a mercury, most troublesome car I ever owned.

I have never trusted J.D powers, they always produce results that look different from customer perceptions. Too much wining and dining I suppose.

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Old 13th August 2008, 10:04   #29
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You have a point about American cars. After having had considerable first hand experience with them I find it hard to believe they could have any entries placed so high. But Land Rover also has a strong word of mouth reputation for being poor quality, especially in North America, that pretty much accords with J.D. Powers. What do you think, will Tata's world renowned quality control experts sort it all out? Snicker, snicker. Jump in here, Behram, you trouble maker.

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Old 13th August 2008, 10:06   #30
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Land Rover also has a strong word of mouth reputation for being poor quality, especially in North America, that pretty much accords with J.D. Powers.
Very true, LR achilles heel was the poor reliability. How is the new Range Rover and the LR3 faring? They look fab, has the quality improved?

Last edited by DKG : 13th August 2008 at 10:08.
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