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View Poll Results: Ideal Indian Off-Roader
Engine - Diesel 108 88.52%
Engine - Petrol 15 12.30%
Chassis - C- Section 7 5.74%
Chassis - Box - Section 37 30.33%
Chassis - Tubular 59 48.36%
Gearbox - 4 Speed 13 10.66%
Gearbox - 5 Speed 105 86.07%
Axles - IFS - Coil 25 20.49%
Axles - IFS - Torsion-Bar 25 20.49%
Axles - IRS - Coil 23 18.85%
Axles - FFFA (Full-Floating Front Axle) 63 51.64%
Axles - FFRA (Full-Floating Rear Axle) 74 60.66%
Suspension - Leafspring 34 27.87%
Suspension - Multi-Link Coil 80 65.57%
Body Style - Soft-Top 63 51.64%
Body Style - Hard-Top 52 42.62%
Body Style - SC/DC Pickup 21 17.21%
Wheel Base - SWB - Below 91 inches 48 39.34%
Wheel Base - MWB- 91-95 inches 62 50.82%
Wheel Base - LWB - 103-130 inches 9 7.38%
Diff-Lock/LSD - Front 92 75.41%
Diff-Lock/LSD - Rear 99 81.15%
Steering System - Manual Power 19 15.57%
Steering System - Hydraulic Power 102 83.61%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 13th August 2008, 10:17   #31
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Dan this list is a joke. Up until 2000 when I had considerable exposure to practically every brand made from the US the best adjective I could come up with was "trash"

This list at best illustrates the veracity of those American brand dealers in "wining and dining" their customers to curry favour and win browning points.

Whether its magazines or such surveys its a known fact these are powerful marketing tools and a lot of money gets spent to get favourable responses.

You have to take these with a pinch of salt.
Dan, with DKG. In fact there is a very nice thread on J.D Power (My experience with JD Power Quality survey) on T-BHP.

These for sure have to be taken with a pinch of salt.
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Old 13th August 2008, 10:20   #32
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I don't let J.D. Powers decide which vehicle I should buy. J.D.Powers is just one metric that you can reference, but not the whole story. All these rating agencies like J.D., Consumer Reports, etc. have their own biases, opinions, etc. to rate vehicles. I rarely agree with their opinions.

Land Rover did and still does make very nice vehicles. The last L.R. product that I drove was a Land Rover Discovery in the U.S. Despite its low J.D. Powers ratings and shortcomings, I was very impressed with its overall design and capability. The Disco is an excellent off roader.

While I agree with your sentiment regarding the repeated change of ownership, being owned by BMW was good for them. The TATA purchase is a sheer stroke of brilliance on the part of TATA. This will infuse technology into the Indian car maker, and provide a world wide distribution channel for Indian made TATA products.

How well will TATA allow Land Rover to stay true to their original design and off-road roots remains to be seen. The acquisition by TATA was the easy part. The real challenge will be integrating the two companies in a synergistic way.
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Old 13th August 2008, 20:46   #33
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I think we are going off topic here. Let's not pollute this thread with our opinions on JD power survey. It's one of those topics like "Ultimate Off-roader" which none of us will completely agree on.
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Old 13th August 2008, 21:54   #34
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I think we are going off topic here. Let's not pollute this thread with our opinions on JD power survey. It's one of those topics like "Ultimate Off-roader" which none of us will completely agree on.
yeah! you are right.

But people I am not talking about adulterated funny vehicle that came under Ford and BMW. I am specifically talking about LR defender.

I have seen GB like LT230 and Ashcroft make which does as low as 10.5:1. Now beat that with any other gearboxes on a road vehicle.
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Old 13th August 2008, 23:20   #35
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yeah! you are right.

But people I am not talking about adulterated funny vehicle that came under Ford and BMW. I am specifically talking about LR defender.

I have seen GB like LT230 and Ashcroft make which does as low as 10.5:1. Now beat that with any other gearboxes on a road vehicle.
The Defender is the only true Land Rover left. The current Range Rover was designed by BMW in their brief and disastrous ownership of the Rover group.

The first few versions of the current Range Rover came with the BMW 4.4 liter V8. After ford acquired Land Rover, it they put a modified version of the Jaguar V8 in the Range Rover.

The current LR3 which was meant to be a replacement for the Discovery is a Ford product.

The Girlie Rover (LR2) also known as Freelander is based on the Ford Escape.

Yes. Defender is the only original Land Rover product and the changes that ford made to the Defender were for the better. They didn't mess with the overall package. They put a more powerful 2.4 CRDi VM Motori engine (shared with the Ford Transit Van) and a 6-Speed manual transmission (earlier had a 5-Speed). They also improved the interiors. The TDI300 engine does have issues with oil leaks etc after a couple of years. Landrover also suffered from really bad frame rusting problems. Check out the Defender for sale on this Forum and you'll see what I am talking about. Many enthusiasts in the US who buy the Series landrovers do a frame replacement with a fully galvanized frame.
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Old 15th March 2010, 15:32   #36
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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Interesting use of a poll Arka!

I have two questions - i noticed you and RedMM were the first two to vote for the Medium Wheel Base (91-95in) over the SWB (<91in).

Q1: What advantages does a MWB give you over a SWB offroad? I would imagine SWB would be the way to go?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
No polls needed. The CL340 outperforms everything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Rehaan - your comment above is correct. Please understand that the CL340 is the original world war 2 jeep. For having a good and really useable 4WD capability, the vehicle must be as light and nimble as possible and the engine / transmission / transfer case combination must have enough grunt to pull it out of the most tight situations. Other attributes like good ground clearance with everything underfloor out of harm's way is considered a given. Show me any other 4WD which has the fuel tank under the seat (no rock can break it). Show me any other 4WD in which the fuel will not change vertical height in the tank much even when the vehicle is tilted sideways or anywhich ways (so as to avoid fuel starvation under extreme offroading sorties). Show me any other 4WD which has a 5.38:1 (high) axle ratio. Show me any other 4WD which has a 48" (just about sufficient, not an inch more) wheel track. Arre baba, show me any other 4WD which has such fantastic visibility while reversing in offroad tricky situations (you are looking over your shoulder at the end of the car as you reverse). Show me any other 4WD which is a right royal pain in the *** to drive on-road (the CL340 is not supposed to be driven on road) but which is in a class of its own once you leave the road. By the way, GTO's 340 is a classic which does not have 5.38:1 axle ratio, it has 4.88:1 axle ratio (same as MM540). Now you decide!
What are the Advantages of the Medium Wheel Base (internationally SWB)
90-95"

1) Longer Wheel Base more stable on road & off-road

2) The longer wheel base allow for
i) Bigger Engine
ii) Bigger/Uprated Transmission/Divorced T-Case
iii) Wider Track 57-65"
iv) Higher Suspension Lifts
v) Taller Tyres

Regards,

Arka
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Old 3rd April 2010, 05:20   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
What are the Advantages of the Medium Wheel Base (internationally SWB)
90-95"

1) Longer Wheel Base more stable on road & off-road

2) The longer wheel base allow for
i) Bigger Engine
ii) Bigger/Uprated Transmission/Divorced T-Case
iii) Wider Track 57-65"
iv) Higher Suspension Lifts
v) Taller Tyres

Regards,

Arka
+ in cases like Arka or me, enough room for us inside the vehicle. I would never fit inside a swb.
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Old 3rd April 2010, 19:35   #38
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Dear Arka - thank you for reviving this thread. It will help.

Dear all - LWB is preferred from packaging point of view, considering all factors.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 4th April 2010, 11:57   #39
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Default Lwb

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Arka - thank you for reviving this thread. It will help.

Dear all - LWB is preferred from packaging point of view, considering all factors.
Hello DB Sir,

I'm pretty sure, those joining the Off-Road Scenario will use these inputs to make their 4WDs.

Please define LWB? is it 106" and above

All the packing issues can easily be addressed in the MWB (90-95" Internationally SWB), but that requires innovation and sincerity, towards the purpose i.e OFF-ROAD CAPABILITY/RELIABILITY/SAFETY & PERFORMANCE followed by On Road Capability/Reliability/Safety & Performance.

How come the Indian Army never went in for a Soft-Top Commander, surely they would have appreciated the additional space and from a packaging POV it would have been better for M&M.

Regards,

Arka.
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