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Old 20th April 2009, 12:57   #91
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Dear Harjeev - I knew that you would face all the problems that you have written about here. I could have made the list myself. I know that you would stand and do essentially little from 10AM to 8PM because that's how this place is. This is all typical of Mayapuri. I have never visited it but I can visualise this area full of self styled "experts" who keep on doing what they do because that's what they have always done and they will deliver quality at their threshold only. There is nothing that anybody can do about it. For God's sake please go to a good reputed garage and do things correctly otherwise you will keep on spending money and not realise value for it. In any case you are going to spend, then the least that you can expect is good value for your money. As the car is in Delhi, one name which comes to my mind is Ravikant (Tutu) Dhawan, our very senior and knowledgeable rallyist and a very respected name in the industry. I will give full details shortly.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 21st April 2009, 11:40   #92
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Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.
I had opened up another thread for the starting issue and will give a gist of the issues and solutions. For details please refer to the respective thread

Problem/ Issue faced
  • The 3B din't used to start in the mornings even after prolonged peridods of cranking the engine.
  • It used to start only after i press the palm of my hand on the carburetor, after removing the air filter pipe, thereafter it starts with half a crank.
Solution
  • I added a mechanical fuel pump before the fuel filter
Here are the pics

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Testing today morning

Good news guys!!!
I tried starting my jeep today morning, first without using the electronic fuel pump. Again the same issue. It did not start

Then I used the electronic fuel pump for 5 or maybe 6 seconds and while it was still on, cranked the engine. And WOLLA it started without a hitch!!!!


I am so happy!!!

I had a little doubt in my mind yesterday whether this contraption will work or not... Thank god it did...
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Old 21st April 2009, 12:09   #93
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That sounds nice Harjeev and congrats for getting the 3B home. Yeah the electronic fuel pump is really an useful back-up. I first saw this on Jasvinder's 3B and came to know about its utilities.
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Old 21st April 2009, 12:19   #94
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There is a correct way to fit an electronic pump. You have not fitted it correctly. I will give full details shortly. This will also avoid vapour lock.

Best regards,

behram Dhabhar
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Old 21st April 2009, 12:39   #95
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@ Kandisa
Thanks. I too got the idea from Mandeep!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
There is a correct way to fit an electronic pump. You have not fitted it correctly. I will give full details shortly. This will also avoid vapour lock.

Best regards,

behram Dhabhar
Thanks Behram Sir,
I am in need of all the help I can get.

Also will it be advisable and/or be of any help to change the the manual fuel pump and carburetor too???
Also i plan to re-lay all the fuel pipes too, i.e. from the fuel tank till the carburetor.

Can you please advise/ suggest where might I get original parts for petrol hurricane engines???
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Old 21st April 2009, 13:21   #96
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Dear Harjeev - yes, I will guide you in totality otherwise the vehicle will stall due to vapour lock in hot weather. You will have to redo the fuel supply system completely. I am not getting any time, that's my biggest problem. Please bear till then.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 21st April 2009, 14:35   #97
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Hi Harjeev - looks like problem 1 is nearing solution. What about the oil leaks? I understand the teething problems will take time to sort out. Have you considered visiting a knoledgeable Mahindra (Romi/Shyam said the one in Nioda is very good, thats where they show their 3B) service centre to get the 3B looked at? Maybe they will be able to sort out some small problems for you?

Cheers
Ankit
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Old 21st April 2009, 15:29   #98
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Small correction its not a mechanical fuel pump, its a electric fuel pump.

Regarding the installation i think one its sitting too high, it should be lower than carb/avoid the vertical set up and make it perpendicular?? also am not sure if it has to be closer to the petrol tank side??

Lets wait for Behram to get some time out
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Old 21st April 2009, 15:41   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Harjeev - yes, I will guide you in totality otherwise the vehicle will stall due to vapour lock in hot weather. You will have to redo the fuel supply system completely. I am not getting any time, that's my biggest problem. Please bear till then.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Thanks Behram sir,
Please take your time. I am waiting for your guidance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlow View Post
Hi Harjeev - looks like problem 1 is nearing solution. What about the oil leaks? I understand the teething problems will take time to sort out. Have you considered visiting a knoledgeable Mahindra (Romi/Shyam said the one in Nioda is very good, thats where they show their 3B) service centre to get the 3B looked at? Maybe they will be able to sort out some small problems for you?

Cheers
Ankit
The oil leak issue was sorted out a couple of days back. The sump has a slight crack and the packing was leak. So the sump was welded and the packing replaced. Therefore the oil is not leaking since saturday. LEts see how long does this hold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Small correction its not a mechanical fuel pump, its a electric fuel pump.

Regarding the installation i think one its sitting too high, it should be lower than carb/avoid the vertical set up and make it perpendicular?? also am not sure if it has to be closer to the petrol tank side??

Lets wait for Behram to get some time out
Hi Jaggu
I too am waiting for Behram sir to guide me.
But just as a doubt, as the fuel pump is electronic, does the height make any difference??
I am a total novice on this front, so bear with me...
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Old 21st April 2009, 17:26   #100
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Dear Harjeev - I will sit in the night and type at home today and then load it.

Best regards,

behram Dhabhar
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Old 21st April 2009, 17:35   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harjeev View Post
But just as a doubt, as the fuel pump is electronic, does the height make any difference??
I am a total novice on this front, so bear with me...
LOL i aint an expert but what i know (IIRC) is:
  • Pump has to be close to the tank, after the filter or muck will distroy the pump faster. And it should have gravity flow ideally
  • Should be well insulated from elements including heat from silencer (if applicable). Engine bay bad idea
  • Petrol pipe dia can be same as original, too big a dia might hamper performance
  • ideally rubber mount to avoid vibrations, but fix it on to firm stuff like chassis
  • Ensure you connect it through ignition, to avoid any accidental flooding, leaks and major accidents! You dont want to leave the pump on and have your friend drop a ciggie bud and see your vehicle go up in flames!
  • Dont see the need of a mech pump if a good electric unit is fitted.

Please do correct me also, if am wrong, Behram sir.

Last edited by Jaggu : 21st April 2009 at 17:37.
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Old 21st April 2009, 17:39   #102
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These electronic pumps are pusher pumps, not suction pumps. They have rotary vanes, much like what you see in small Canals(khalas) driven by tractors. They closer they are to the feed source, that is the fuel tank here, the easier they push the fluid and the less liable they are to fail due to overheating.
But then you also have to take care that if does'nt fail due to getting wet when it rain or when you ford a water body.

Last edited by Brutus : 21st April 2009 at 17:40. Reason: left some info
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Old 21st April 2009, 17:39   #103
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Dear Jaggu - who says you are not an expert? You are 100% correct but there are many other things to do as well.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 21st April 2009, 17:45   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Jaggu - who says you are not an expert? You are 100% correct but there are many other things to do as well.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Thank you sir, looking forward to the finer details from you My experience was limited to an old fiat.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 08:02   #105
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Dear Brutus - the original design of this electronic fuel pump has a stainless steel plunger (not vanes) and was made by Ucal Fuel Systems Ltd (previously known as Carburettors India Ltd, Mr.S.Govindrajan was the GM - R&D - he is my mentor also). I was the test engineer when this pump was adapted on the 118E and we also tried it on the Padmini. This was in 1988. All my 4 restored fiats have it (see the vintage and classic cars of India - post 1950 section). You are correct, it is a pusher pump, not a puller pump. I will see if I can find the original graphs. Unfortunately, the clones available in the market do not have good characteristics. However, mass flow is suitable for an engine upto 2000 cc so for the F4/134, you will have to use it as a supplementary pump only.

Mounting and plumbing details follow.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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