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Old 28th January 2009, 14:33   #1
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Default My CJ3A Story, Jeep Gurus please read!

Hi Guys!

This weekend, I had went to my native place in Rajasthan for some family function. As I had decided earlier, I searched for the CJ3A engine which is the only thing I have right now of my Jeep with me.

After a 40 mins search in the three big store rooms at our backyard, I was finally able to unearth the Go-Devil! Man it was all dust, cobwebs and old stuff and I had to take a shower again after the expedition was over.

Lets first have a look at the engine and the story will follow:

Buried in heaps of dust, old wires and cobwebs.
My CJ3A Story, Jeep Gurus please read!-buried.jpg

Notice the embossings "Jeep" and "Willys Industrial". Gurus, more info on this please. Read on to know why I am asking.
My CJ3A Story, Jeep Gurus please read!-topview.jpg

After clearing (read untangling) the engine. it looks like this.
My CJ3A Story, Jeep Gurus please read!-full-engine.jpg

Closeup of the head with top mounted plugs. The embossings more prominently visible.
My CJ3A Story, Jeep Gurus please read!-head.jpg

The original Lucas Coil ( I guess )!
My CJ3A Story, Jeep Gurus please read!-coil.jpg

Top front view with the metal fan and belts intact.
My CJ3A Story, Jeep Gurus please read!-topfront.jpg

The side block view.
My CJ3A Story, Jeep Gurus please read!-side.jpg

And now for the story.

Well the story goes on like this:

My Grandpa had bought a CJ3A (I think it is) for 4k in late 50s. My dad learnt driving on it and kept it in stock condition till early 70s when he shifted to Delhi. It was parked in our garage for next 7-8 years before dad and my uncle again started using it for local village rides. I remember going on drives with dad on dusty village tracks in our native village in Rajasthan. Jeeps were no big deal for people back then but me being a small kid was always fascinated by it.

Again it was parked for next 10-12 years under the sun and we did'nt realize when it came on bricks instead of wheels. Plants grew from under its body. Man I feel so sad when I think of it. I wish I was all grown up at that time.

Time went by and I became busy with the circle of life and the Jeep Bug on the back foot.

Meanwhile around 1993, the Jeep was shifted to my Bua's place with my other prized possession a '56 Fiat 1100 round boot (I plan to restore that as well. Will post a seperate thread approperiatly) as my phuphaji has a big workshop with plans to repaint and patch work (not restore) as my uncle (chacha) had to use it for local trasport for our farm. It was reconditioned with a base blue color. The Go-Devil was replaced (and kept in the store) by the old 540 Peuguot engine and used for around 1 year and sent to the workshop again destined to be parked for next 10 years or so.

It was then around 2004 taken away with my dad's permission by one of our distant relative without my knowledge. I hear they have restored the body work but not in original condition. I still have the original L134 engine as these guys fortunately took it away without the heart. They installed a Toyota as they wanted a better motor.

I have now contacted them and asked for the Jeep which they say is parked for around 6 months now at their farm. The only hitch now is that my dad wants the paperwork to be complete as the registration was not renewed when it expired last and hence the road tax is due since the 70's. This will take some time and only then I will be able to bring it to Delhi.

Can you guys imagine, it was given away for free without any paperwork!! and is still in my grandpa's name.

Phew!! A long story!!

I am not even sure if its the CJ3A or its military sibling the M38. Dad says it was a civillain version but uncle says it was a military one. They both dont remember what was written on the Data plate as those years these vehicles did not carry such value. Since it does not have any military hardware thats why I think its a CJ3A.

Its this reason that I want the gurus to have their insight on this vehicle now that we have the photographs of the engine. Does the words "Jeep Industrial" carry any significance in terms of model or year of manufacture? I think UBS sir or Bahram Sir can throw some light on it.

Wish me luck! Hope I will soon get to restore it back to its original form.

Last edited by vinayrathore : 28th January 2009 at 14:39.
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Old 28th January 2009, 17:06   #2
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Thumbs up

Vinay.
Great going. Now get the rest of the jeep quickly.
Willys made generators for industrial use with the
L-134 engine as the powerplant.
Those engines had the Industrial marking on the head.
I wonder how it came to be installed on this engine and
more importantly, from where? Try and find out.
Try to look for the engine number on the engine block
and post it along with the casting numbers on the engine
block.

I am sure UBS sir will have lots more to tell

Edit: that Lucas coil is not original. Willys was American and used Autolite coils. Lucas is British.
Cheers and congrats again.

Last edited by gotzuk : 28th January 2009 at 17:10.
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Old 28th January 2009, 20:01   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotzuk View Post
Vinay.
Great going. Now get the rest of the jeep quickly.
Willys made generators for industrial use with the
L-134 engine as the powerplant.
Those engines had the Industrial marking on the head.
I wonder how it came to be installed on this engine and
more importantly, from where? Try and find out.
Try to look for the engine number on the engine block
and post it along with the casting numbers on the engine
block.

I am sure UBS sir will have lots more to tell

Edit: that Lucas coil is not original. Willys was American and used Autolite coils. Lucas is British.
Cheers and congrats again.
Thanks Vaibhav for the insight. I did'nt know willys made generators too!

Now need to investigate how that head or the engine landed in the Jeep??

To my knowledge, we are the second owners and it is an import vehicle.

UBS sir over to you please!
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Old 28th January 2009, 22:48   #4
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Great going Vinay
So you finally found it! Congrats
Get the rest of it I know it will not be as easy as said but still you have set the ball rolling now and definitely someday the results will come.
Best of luck
Harjeev
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Old 29th January 2009, 00:23   #5
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I do not know if this will help but you might want to browse this site below.

Archive Willys Overland and Ford Jeep Serial Number Page


This engine has great low end torque for its size but does not like to be over-revved. Have fun!
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Old 29th January 2009, 07:39   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harjeev View Post
Great going Vinay
So you finally found it! Congrats
Get the rest of it I know it will not be as easy as said but still you have set the ball rolling now and definitely someday the results will come.
Best of luck
Harjeev
Yes Harjeev! As I said, it took the proportions of an expedition to find it but at last I was able to. And yes, now that I am actually after it, you will see the real thing soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
I do not know if this will help but you might want to browse this site below.

Archive Willys Overland and Ford Jeep Serial Number Page


This engine has great low end torque for its size but does not like to be over-revved. Have fun!
Hey DD! Thanks buddy for the link. Its a mine of information! Actually I was not able to locate the engine number that day but am planning to go this weekend again to take the devil out and may be bring it to Delhi and atleast start the work on it.

Will keep you guys posted.

Cheers!!
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Old 29th January 2009, 12:45   #7
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Hi Vinay,

Congrats on acquiring a hidden treasure. Looking forward to seeing a Jeep built around it.

Cheers !!!!!!
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Old 1st February 2009, 02:54   #8
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Hello Vinay,

I am sorry how an interesting Jeep topic missed my weak eyes. Infact I was away to the NCR during the last week of Jan.
This is a must for all real jeep lovers to know that the famous "Go Devil" gasoline engines were used in many applications other that the low bonnet jeeps, military or civilian.

The second most common application was the welding sets and the 440v DC generators 10 KW rating. Small cranes, speed boats, were a few more.

The question of the script 'Industrial' on top of the head is better explained as a low compression ratio head. The firing chamber is larger in volume as in an automotive head.
There were two sizes of the short thread spark plugs, the common 14 mm and a bigger 18mm. Very rare to get the 18mm types, which we are to believe that such engines were started by petrol and ran on kerosene.(Anyone coming to Calcutta can see a head at my place with 18mm spark plugs).

Just need to mention that the industrial engines were identical in all respects to the jeep engines, except :

1. that the inlet manifold has 7/8 in. opening, while the jeep manifolds were wider.
2. there was a mechanical governer installed in front of the carb, to adjust the speed under load automatically. It was propelled by the fan belt.
3. The thermostat water port over the head, had a directly fitted manual temp gauge.
4. The cooling fan had 6 six wide blades.
5. The engines used for generators did not have a dynamo, but had an idle pulley in place of the generator.
6. A few more very minor differences, which I cannot recollect right now.

Now coming back to your engine Vinay, as shown in the picture:
It is no doubt that it is a Willys engine, as all 15 were studs used to tighten the head.
Ford engines had 5 studs and 10 bolts.
The engine is surely a post war Willys product as the oil pump is of the gear driven cam type.
A few missing original parts are like WO Carter Carb.(Solex shown), Autolite distributor(Lucas type shown),
the original flywheel, bell housing and starter motor( CJ3B type used), ignition coil(as pointed by Vaibhav already). The dynamo is not clear, so chale ga.

There is nothing to feel bad Vinay, as 99 out of 100 jeeps have these.
Regarding the issue of military or civilian CJ3A, let me tell you, a CJ3A was never sold in the civilian market. All the 10,000 CKD jeeps assembled annually by M&M under licence of Willys Overland Inc, were to be sold to Govt only. Most of them were sent for defense use while an odd one was supplied to other high profile depts.
Though named as CJ3A in India, their military nomenclature was MC (follower of the MB).
Just as the military version CJ3B was named MD or M606 overseas.

You have an interesting jeep in hand, please keep your cool, and try to restore it to atleast 90% original. We will all feel proud of you. There is another post in the BHP forum where someone has 'murdered' a Bawan by using stupid Jap engine and power train, RHD and what not. Please stay away from such Dabwali type mods, and stick to creating a real Bawan, which I say is the best Jeep ever born till date.

Wish you all the best,
yours......................................U.B.Sin gh
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Old 1st February 2009, 13:28   #9
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Looking good man!!!

Great find
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Old 1st February 2009, 23:46   #10
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I would like to add here that the industrial engines used in generators ( known as PE-95), came without oil filters. I think UBS Sir will second me on this. The present head can run the jeep too albeit with reduced performance. For full performance you would need the regular head.
Restore the jeep as an orginal 3A and I guarantee you respect from two quarters, UBS and myself

Cheers
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Old 8th February 2009, 13:58   #11
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Hey! Been missing TBHP sooo much!

Sorry guys! Was buried in work till neck for last 2 weeks or so. Coud'nt check mails or TBHP :(

One good news though is that I have bought a Mahindra Xylo E6 last week! Will be posting the review and experience in an approperiate thread soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by U.B.Singh View Post
Hello Vinay,
...
...
...
yours......................................U.B.Sin gh
Thanks so much UBS Sir for your valuable insight on this Jeep! I am really honored!

I was infact looking forward to meet you at the 25th OTR but could not make it.

Last week I again went to my native place(Churu, Rajasthan). This time I met my late grandpa's elder brother who is a retired Colonel. I enquired about this Jeep and was told some new things. This Jeep was an army disposal alloted to my Grandpa under a special MLA quota (My Grandpa was an MLA that time) around 1959-60. Since it was barely in working order, it was taken by my Colonel grandpa and repaired with the help of Army TPT mechs and a lot of parts were repaired and even replaced. They even striped it of all the military add ons as they did not think of any use back then. I guess it was this overhaul that explains the "Industrial" marking on the head and the other non original parts seen on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotzuk View Post
I would like to add here that the industrial engines used in generators ( known as PE-95), came without oil filters. I think UBS Sir will second me on this. The present head can run the jeep too albeit with reduced performance. For full performance you would need the regular head.
Restore the jeep as an orginal 3A and I guarantee you respect from two quarters, UBS and myself

Cheers
UBS Sir and Vaibhav and all the Jeeping comminity, please rest assured that I will never "murder" this real bawan and will restore it to the real glory as best as I can.

I will most probably be bothering you for help in sourcing the parts when I start the project sometime later this year.

Meanwhile will post the pics of the Jeep asa I get my hands on it.

Cheers!

Last edited by Rehaan : 12th February 2009 at 22:00. Reason: Hi, please avoid quoting an entire large post. It inconveniences our small screen & mobile readers. Thanks.
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Old 19th March 2009, 01:35   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinayrathore View Post

I will most probably be bothering you for help in sourcing the parts when I start the project sometime later this year.

Meanwhile will post the pics of the Jeep asa I get my hands on it.

Cheers!
Hey Vinaythore,

Did you take any photos from the CJ3A, I'm very keen to see them. I still remember the day when I got in a garage with a CJ3A just sitting there waiting for better times, so I can imagine how you feel about your Jeep that is a part from your childhood btw.

Old Willys Jeeps (W-O original) are very rare in Macedonia, so I'm negotiating with my father to get that Jeep and rebuilt it before it ends up in some junkyard and be destroyed...
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Old 24th December 2009, 21:04   #13
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posts of UB Sir are so informative, with so much attention to minute details, that too with utmost humility(this is most important), thank you for sharing your knowledge sir
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