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Old 9th April 2013, 14:35   #646
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Default Re: Identifying the Jeeps and advise for buying

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Originally Posted by wanderernomad View Post
Badly bitten by the 4X4 bug, been hunting around for a suitable 4X4 vehicle


The first 2 flat fenders are Medium wheelbase Mahindra CJ500Ds with the International Harvester Diesel engines. The last pic is a Mahindra 750 Commander, its a long Wheelbase.

Let me re-state what everyone has said. The International Harvester engine is a no-frills workhorse and requires minimum maintenance. The downside is that its too noisy and can barely cross 60 kmph.

The 500D won't be heavy on wallet as its essentially a workhorse. The spare parts are readily available at reasonable rates. I am stating one line written by Behram sir on my Jeep's restoration thread "There is nothing much that can go wrong in this jeep as there is nothing much in it "

For some more gyaan on the CJ500D, check out these threads.

This (Amma... look what I found... a 4x4 JEEP !!!)one is my Jeep's restoration thread.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...d-rebuild.html (Mahindra CJ 500D 4WD Rebuild)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ational-3.html (Finally got a jeep, MM international)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...on-thread.html (Mahindra 500D 1986 Model - Restoration Thread)

As far as off-roading is concerned, the 500D will not let you down. Believe me, the 10 inch difference in wheelbase hardly matters if the vehicle is driven properly. I have seen pros using the LWB commanders where most of us will struggle SWBs.

Please post more pics so that we can have a better look at the vehicle and help you restoring it.

All the best.

Last edited by Sabareesh : 9th April 2013 at 14:38.
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Old 9th April 2013, 18:53   #647
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Default Re: Identifying the Jeeps and advise for buying

Thank you Sudarshan, Sabareesh and Jerrycan. I am looking for a reasonable off roading and a camping vehicle as dreamt by Sudarshan. Plan on putting up a roof tent and a trailer to tow other camping gear etc. Shall try and post more pictures. The Blue jeeps are not being recommended as the drivers say that they have already been flogged hard. The rooplas top also seems to ahve an issue with its chassis as well. They are recommending the green one as according to them its in total running condition and requires nothing more than a battery and service.
Also the blue rooplas one doesn't have any papers. The blue 540 is a 4X4 but has its shifter removed. Any idea as to what should be the ideal price for these?
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Old 9th April 2013, 19:12   #648
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Default Re: Identifying the Jeeps and advise for buying

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post

Frustrating facts aren't they ?? But chances are I will be jumping in it soon -- as my 89 model Jeep is nearing its end of its life cycle , So Cheers

Sudarshan
Sorry, I beg to disagree with you. I do not want a debate here. What is good for me may not be as good for someone else. So please leave it at that.
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Old 9th April 2013, 21:18   #649
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Sorry, I beg to disagree with you. I do not want a debate here. What is good for me may not be as good for someone else. So please leave it at that.
Sorry if I had offended you in any way , that was not the intention .

I am seeing these Auctions process since long ( my first one was a MH govt auction in 1993 & we were actually able to break the traders ring ) . With a courtesy of a friend , I was involved in Army Auctions some time back & was actually able to pull out a LMV class .

My point is & was that I have never ever said that getting auctioned vehicle in to a perfect running & new condition is Impossible . It can always be done & I know few examples close to me . ( even few forum members here ) .

I have only tried to show the less known but a could be painful part of the whole deal , to the novice Jeep dreamers . I am sure my tips would possibly save a lot of trouble to such people .

Sudarshan
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Old 10th April 2013, 01:27   #650
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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
Their engine is the rugged International 2350 cc / 50 bhp MDI.
Sir,
IIRC, the International Harvester is an IDI engine. The Di came much later.

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
One needs to inspect the vehicles , select & bid . Now the Fun starts here after the inspection there is no guarantee that a starter motor will be there till the end . One is not allowed to take pics ( Army ) , the deal is as is where is -- you cant complain.
Sir, the parts should never go missing after the inspection. The vehicles' log book will indicate all the parts and accessories that came as loose parts when the vehicle gets disposed.if there are any missing parts, you will be informed during inspection.
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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
But there are traders who deal in such , they buy lots , you can inspect & deal accordingly . But price is added by another 25 % .
When a trader/dealer lifts the lot, not all the vehicle will get sold, some have to be scrapped, the cost is usually amortized, hence the 25 to 30% increase on cost.
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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
# After getting a Jeep ( Army ) at your door step ( unrestored ) , for that you have paid some 1.7 -- again some one please prove me wrong .
What is the guess of costs , to get it as worthy as you wish ?? my take is 150 K
So finally you have a dream vehicle for some 3 lakhs minimum .
Sudarshan
Don't you think 3 lakhs is reasonable cost for a reliable, fully restored and registered vehicle.
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Old 10th April 2013, 07:36   #651
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Smile Re: Jeeps/Gypsy's: All through Army Auctions: What, When, Where, How?

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Sir, the parts should never go missing after the inspection.
Yes , you are correct , in theory

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The vehicles' log book will indicate all the parts and accessories that came as loose parts when the vehicle gets disposed.if there are any missing parts, you will be informed during inspection.
What does the MSTC rules say about it ? Its sold as 'as is where is basis ' & ' No complaints basis '

There is no mechanism in place to sort such grievances.

AFAIK , particular log book is NOT available to the bidder . He can only inspect the vehicle , select & bid . Meanwhile the vehicle remains in the compound & the people there ' Mistakenly ' scavenge parts from the lots which are declared for Auction . In theory this Should NOT happen but happens . Two years back a quarrel had broke out in a Depot in Pune , only because of this problem . I have myself talked to the officials & clearly told them that the process is loosing its credibility .

Quote:
When a trader/dealer lifts the lot, not all the vehicle will get sold, some have to be scrapped, the cost is usually amortized, hence the 25 to 30% increase on cost.
Well I have no objection about dealer getting profit on the sales , finally its business not charity . If they dont they will have to close shops & go Home.

But I am thinking / talking from the forum member / Jeep enthusiast POV . Dealer profit finally costs or adds to the price .

Quote:
Don't you think 3 lakhs is reasonable cost for a reliable, fully restored and registered vehicle.
We all know that 3 lakh is a minimum figure .If I am going to spend some 3.5 on an old vehicle then I will wait or take a loan & buy a new Jeep anytime .That will be covered with warranty etc .

But Finally it depends from person to person , as to what to choose in his budget . some might agree to what you say & some might not . Nothing wrong in your Or my thinking .

Finally responding to the last para , let me ask you one question . All these parts like the engine block ,head , crank , all the shafts will be old . There is something called as metal fatigue . Dont you think its still an 10-15 year old jeep , at two thirds of the New Jeeps price .

Had it been restored around 2 lakhs , I have No objections .Point is its becoming costlier just for the craze of it . Auctioned vehicle prices & the subsequent restoration process has gone out of limits IMHO which was cheap ( 40% of new vehicle costs )some 10 years back .

In my case I will be doing it shortly . As being a DIY , the restoration costs me half of what it costs to a normal guy . Also I can handle the reliability issue , which is otherwise a headache for a non DIY person .

I am just trying to shed some light on ' Behind the scenes ' things of the merrier picture of Jeep ' Builds ' thats all .

Sudarshan

Last edited by Sudarshan : 10th April 2013 at 07:44.
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Old 10th April 2013, 09:40   #652
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Default Re: Jeeps/Gypsy's: All through Army Auctions: What, When, Where, How?

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post

We all know that 3 lakh is a minimum figure.


Finally responding to the last para , let me ask you one question . All these parts like the engine block ,head , crank , all the shafts will be old . There is something called as metal fatigue . Dont you think its still an 10-15 year old jeep , at two thirds of the New Jeeps price .

Had it been restored around 2 lakhs , I have No objections .Point is its becoming costlier just for the craze of it . Auctioned vehicle prices & the subsequent restoration process has gone out of limits IMHO which was cheap ( 40% of new vehicle costs )some 10 years back .

As being a DIY , the restoration costs me half of what it costs to a normal guy . Also I can handle the reliability issue , which is otherwise a headache for a non DIY person .

I am just trying to shed some light on ' Behind the scenes ' things of the merrier picture of Jeep ' Builds ' thats all . Sudarshan

For a new Jeep guy the initial cost is just the beginning, he will have to spend a bomb even if the if jeep is rebuilt by the seller. We have handful of such stories in TBHP. To the new owner especially if he is a non-DIY guy every day there will be a surprise waiting for. It will take about a year for him to completely understand the vehicle and would have lost lot of money and time searching for a reliable mechanic and the spare parts. Eventually most of not so serious owners end up selling their vehicles with a major hit on their pocket in a year or two.

Last edited by mohang_j : 10th April 2013 at 09:42.
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Old 10th April 2013, 18:27   #653
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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post

Yes , you are correct , in theory

What does the MSTC rules say about it ? Its sold as 'as is where is basis ' & ' No complaints basis '

There is no mechanism in place to sort such grievances.

AFAIK , particular log book is NOT available to the bidder . He can only inspect the vehicle , select & bid . Meanwhile the vehicle remains in the compound & the people there ' Mistakenly ' scavenge parts from the lots which are declared for Auction . In theory this Should NOT happen but happens . Two years back a quarrel had broke out in a Depot in Pune , only because of this problem . I have myself talked to the officials & clearly told them that the process is loosing its credibility .
Sir, I beg to differ. On the last day of the inspection, the vehicles are tagged and sealed in presence of potential bidders. The log book is made available to the bidders present at the site. In my personal experience as a bidder, I have got a store keeper of a particular depot suspended and subsequently transferred due to a to loose and missing parts issue.

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
Well I have no objection about dealer getting profit on the sales , finally its business not charity . If they dont they will have to close shops & go Home.
But I am thinking / talking from the forum member / Jeep enthusiast POV . Dealer profit finally costs or adds to the price .
Sir, there no such thing as free lunch. Either the form member/jeep enthusiast has to be a DIY type or he pays up for somebody who does on his behalf.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
We all know that 3 lakh is a minimum figure .If I am going to spend some 3.5 on an old vehicle then I will wait or take a loan & buy a new Jeep anytime .That will be covered with warranty etc .
But Finally it depends from person to person , as to what to choose in his budget . some might agree to what you say & some might not . Nothing wrong in your Or my thinking .
Finally responding to the last para , let me ask you one question . All these parts like the engine block ,head , crank , all the shafts will be old . There is something called as metal fatigue . Dont you think its still an 10-15 year old jeep , at two thirds of the New Jeeps price .
Had it been restored around 2 lakhs , I have No objections .Point is its becoming costlier just for the craze of it . Auctioned vehicle prices & the subsequent restoration process has gone out of limits IMHO which was cheap ( 40% of new vehicle costs )some 10 years back .
Sir, an NGCS 550 with an NGT520 gb will cost you around 4.5 lakhs, thats around 55% of invoice value of thar Crdi. Considering all the price hikes, inflation et al., it is just what you expected 10 years ago.
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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
In my case I will be doing it shortly . As being a DIY , the restoration costs me half of what it costs to a normal guy . Also I can handle the reliability issue , which is otherwise a headache for a non DIY person
Sir, wishing you all the best on your project and looking forward to your threads on the jeep building.
best regards
Prabhu

Last edited by Jerrycan : 10th April 2013 at 18:30.
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Old 10th April 2013, 19:13   #654
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Smile Re: Jeeps/Gypsy's: All through Army Auctions: What, When, Where, How?

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Sir, I beg to differ. On the last day of === ===subsequently transferred due to a to loose and missing parts issue.
This is a very good thing if its really started to happen , then life will be easy for even a forum member to get registered with MSTC & bid .


Quote:
Sir, there no such thing as free lunch. Either the form member/jeep enthusiast has to be a DIY type or he pays up for somebody who does on his behalf.
Absolutely correct view .

Quote:
Sir, an NGCS 550 with an NGT520 gb will cost you around 4.5 lakhs, thats around 55% of invoice value of thar Crdi. Considering all the price hikes, inflation et al., it is just what you expected 10 years ago.
Please explain this more , I am not getting what you are trying to say

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Sir
You call me Sir & I will call you Jerry ( Tom & Jerry one )

Quote:
wishing you all the best on your project and looking forward to your threads on the jeep building.
best regards
Prabhu
Yes not only the good wishes , but I will be looking for some inputs from your side wrt the Auctions ( just like the first para ) .Thanks for that & in advance. Lets share experiences , may be it will ease the burden off in few things for the members .

Regards

Sudarshan
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Old 15th April 2013, 10:16   #655
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Default Re: Jeeps/Gypsy's: All through Army Auctions: What, When, Where, How?

Hi, Can anyone tell me how much will it cost to get a Ex Army Gypsy 99 & 2000 model registered in Bangalore.... Road tax, registration charges etc... also do these army disposal guys provide original invoice of the vehicle for registration purpose....???
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Old 15th April 2013, 14:55   #656
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Default Re: Jeeps/Gypsy's: All through Army Auctions: What, When, Where, How?

Dear All

I personally have seen various army gypsies, mm 5xx, nissan trucks that are auctioned. Some how, I am not able to understand why these auctioned vehicles reach this "scrap" condition. Is this the way the military men drive until the vehicle is scraped or they just "build" a vehicle out of the heap of scrap metal lying in the army junkyard and sell it off ? Anybody on the forum who could share better light on the same?

Thanks in advance
W_C
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Old 15th April 2013, 16:21   #657
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Default Re: Jeeps/Gypsy's: All through Army Auctions: What, When, Where, How?

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Hi, Can anyone tell me how much will it cost to get a Ex Army Gypsy 99 & 2000 model registered in Bangalore.... Road tax, registration charges etc... also do these army disposal guys provide original invoice of the vehicle for registration purpose....???
The cost of registration will be approx 15% of the Army Invoice value. In addition you may have to spend and additional 2-3K towards miscellaneous expenses at the RTO.
If you have bought the vehicle directly from the army, all the papers like Form 21, original Invoice etc., will be provided in your name. If you have bought it from the dealer who picks up army vehicles, even if he provides all the papers, it'll first get registered in his name and then will have to be transferred to your name. Do not buy it from the dealer without registration unless you know him personally.

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Dear All

I personally have seen various army gypsies, mm 5xx, nissan trucks that are auctioned. Some how, I am not able to understand why these auctioned vehicles reach this "scrap" condition. Is this the way the military men drive until the vehicle is scraped or they just "build" a vehicle out of the heap of scrap metal lying in the army junkyard and sell it off ? Anybody on the forum who could share better light on the same?

Thanks in advance
W_C
The disposed vehicles are in much better condition than what you get to see lying at the dealers' scrap Yard. Some vehicles would have been cannibalised at the army depot itself. All working parts will be substituted with parts that have been scrapped.
Not all the units in an army can dispose the vehicles. The vehicles are all bought to the UNFIT VEHICLE PARK or the RETURN VEHICLE PARK. The vehicles are usually damaged due to handling and while in transit to these depots. In these depots the vehicles are left in open for the rain and shine to takes its toll. Some dealers get to take away some good working parts like Starting motors, Gear levers, FIP, nozzles, drive shafts etc., while taking delivery of their vehicles.
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Old 15th April 2013, 16:25   #658
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Default Re: Jeeps/Gypsy's: All through Army Auctions: What, When, Where, How?

Jerrycan, if I may suggest, could you please start a thread (or post it here) giving a comprehensive idea of what goes behind an army auction?

I see you are the only guy here, capable of providing a comprehensive and first hand information on this dreaded process. Will you please do that? Thanks in advance.

Spike
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Old 15th April 2013, 18:55   #659
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Default Re: Jeeps/Gypsy's: All through Army Auctions: What, When, Where, How?

Mod Note : Slang and SMS Language are STRICTLY prohibited on Team-BHP. Please type in full and proper English for the benefit of other community members.

We advise you to read the Forum Rules before proceeding any further.

Last edited by GTO : 17th April 2013 at 17:06. Reason: Please take a look at the mod note that has been added to the end of your post.
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Old 15th April 2013, 23:05   #660
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Default Re: Jeeps/Gypsy's: All through Army Auctions: What, When, Where, How?

HELP GUYS!!

Urgently need your help. I am trying to re-register my x-army 550 (without greasing any palms) and the rto is asking for the value of the vehicle to determine road tax.

Now he says either the auction receipt of mine or any other 2001 model 550 will do or invoice of 2001 model 550.

The issue is mine auction receipt is of a lot of 6-7 different vehicles and he is not able to determine value of 550.

Can anybody help with either auction receipt of only 550 2001 model or invoice of 2001 550?

cheers
vishwas
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