Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th March 2010, 18:42   #301
BHPian
 
rhandle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ghaziabad
Posts: 554
Thanked: 106 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post

So do i have to own all to pass my judgment? Seeing is believing! Every one has problem with force motors more than they have a problem with Gurkha.
The problem with Force Motors: "They dont listen to US" but then why they should listen to 10-20 odd Gurkha owners. Mahindra just now showed Thumb to the biggest fans of Mahindra Jeeps and people who have literally dug it out from the graves and forced them to see light that they used to make good 4x4s. What happened to all the advices on getting the kind of vehicle all wanted, with that kind of crowd following?

I do hope Force Motors will listen to us, but then 20 odd people cannot make business sense to them. So we find all ways to vent out our anger, rather frustration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Gurkha is good on paper no doubt and is decent in real world. If it was so good then why is it not selling?
Vincent van Gough, I am sure all have heard his name, he died a pauper and was able to sell only one painting in his life time "The Red Vineyard" for 350-400 odd francs. Now just try to buy even an authenticated replica of his work and you would know.

It takes people at times years to understand and appreciate a product.

There was a movie Rakh of Aamir Khan which flopped, but I feel it was a very good movie but was ahead of its time.

May be if Force markets it well with decent price, I am sure with all the features it has it will see many (not all) die-hard fans of other vehicles turning toward it.

Currently it has lot of issues like, long wait period, not much information about the vehicle, not many experts around here. I am still learning. I guess there were just two threads on Gurkha and not much information about how they behave till my thread came along. I am sure with time the things would improve, though there are every chances it can swing either way.

Lets stop cursing Gurkha just for the sake of cursing it! and yes if it pleases anyone!
rhandle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2010, 19:29   #302
Senior - BHPian
 
vinod_nookala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,737
Thanked: 410 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhandle View Post
The problem with Force Motors: "They dont listen to US" but then why they should listen to 10-20 odd Gurkha owners.
I do hope Force Motors will listen to us, but then 20 odd people cannot make business sense to them. So we find all ways to vent out our anger, rather frustration.

May be if Force markets it well with decent price, I am sure with all the features it has it will see many (not all) die-hard fans of other vehicles turning toward it.

Currently it has lot of issues like, long wait period, not much information about the vehicle, not many experts around here. I am still learning. I guess there were just two threads on Gurkha and not much information about how they behave till my thread came along. I am sure with time the things would improve, though there are every chances it can swing either way.
Lets stop cursing Gurkha just for the sake of cursing it! and yes if it pleases anyone!
Rahul,

I have told numerous times that Gurkha is the only vehicle which is good on road and off road too. It must be compared with vehicle like safari, Bolero, Scorpio because of its weight class and size. This is the kind of concept which we all wanted even with Mahindra Thar. Samurai has been saying about a family friendly 4wd vehicle which Gurkha is!! It rides well on road better than an jeep/ Gypsy, is immensely more comfortable than even safari on bad roads if owners have to be believed!! It is the only vehicle in India which comes with diff locks factory fitted along with p/s and a/c in SWB form!!

Gurkha has its advantages and hence i am no Gurkha basher! I did say its not worth driving even a mile only because i was pushed to.

There is more to a vehicle beyond off road ability, like parts availability and a good customer care. Plus many have realized Gurkha isn't as good off road what it projects to be. That's where the disappointment is and not to forget company attitude.

IMO a more powerful engine at current pricing with serious company support can revive this product.
vinod_nookala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2010, 22:23   #303
BHPian
 
rhandle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ghaziabad
Posts: 554
Thanked: 106 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Rahul,

I have told numerous times that Gurkha is the only vehicle which is good on road and off road too. It must be compared with vehicle like safari, Bolero, Scorpio because of its weight class and size. This is the kind of concept which we all wanted even with Mahindra Thar. Samurai has been saying about a family friendly 4wd vehicle which Gurkha is!! It rides well on road better than an jeep/ Gypsy, is immensely more comfortable than even safari on bad roads if owners have to be believed!! It is the only vehicle in India which comes with diff locks factory fitted along with p/s and a/c in SWB form!!

Gurkha has its advantages and hence i am no Gurkha basher! I did say its not worth driving even a mile only because i was pushed to.


Patience and look out is the word Vinod. As every off-roader knows one has to take practical and rationale decision to move over an obstacle. No obstacle should be tackled just because you have been pushed or motivated negatively. As a newbie I had been through that route and everytime I got pushed, the result was getting stuck!

I am sure you got my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
There is more to a vehicle beyond off road ability, like parts availability and a good customer care. Plus many have realized Gurkha isn't as good off road what it projects to be. That's where the disappointment is and not to forget company attitude.

IMO a more powerful engine at current pricing with serious company support can revive this product.
If you go through my posts you will be surprised to know Force people were always behind me, like coming all the way from Agra to Kosi Kalan a distance of 60 kms to pick me up and get my vehicle repaired at 9 pm in the night. I am sure no one would boast of that. Spares are slight issue, and the problem I faced was in Purnia a small town in Bihar which I am sure not even one tenth of Tbhpians would be knowing. That dealership was 3 days old.

Many people mean how many? I guess most of the people including myself who bought the Gurkha were totally new to off-roading and then Gurkha was a new vehicle which not many people knew how to handle. Every one was like Diff.locks lagao chadh jao, rev karo - pedal to metal ... but then as you are aware not every vehicle can be treated the same way. My failure rate has decreased considerably and now most of the times my vehicle is one of the vehicles which moves out to rescue. It's not like I do not get stuck but Now I do lot more recovery. The knowledge is one thing which comes slowly - and I am still learning, and hopefully reach the current level of you guys in few years time!
rhandle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2010, 22:58   #304
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kalyani, West Bengal
Posts: 444
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

So hearsay and speculation with no substantial knowledge, long term ownership or even extended use on or off road with vehicle and yet, judgments are being passed off. So let me see, hypothetically, its classic case of grapes are real sour here. So if I can't afford or have the capability of coming close to say an FJ, G Wagen or even a H1, I will sit at my desk and condemn them.

Lets put it this way, the off road ability of Gurkha is unquestionable and only a person like Rhandle, Dr. Mohan who truly put the vehicle through its true intention and capabilities have any right to talk about it. Those who base on hearsay have no place in this thread really. Have said time and again, got your own threads of adulation, even dedicated forums. If Gurkha is an incompetent machine, why even bother to comment, it should be indifference rather. Brining it to a hopeless vehicle like Bolero is a royal hoot and before you jump, yours truly had the graver misfortune of owning the predecessor to the Bolero namely Armada Grand, one of the most unreliable piece of machinery ever owned at our household. Not only was it one noisy incompetent machine, it was bad on road with its horse carriage suspension, it was pathetic on road where most vehicles would go through in 2WD mode, this one would need the engagement of the unreliable B&W electro-pneumatic 4WD system at the slightest provocation.

Rhandle has been the most outspoken but objective critic of the Gurkha and to top it all off, he has had the chance to compare and use other vehicles for a far broader perspective than the so called speculators here who have not even gone close to a Gurkha and yet, they sit on their desktop and scrutinize it. I guess Rhandle, Dr. Mohan and myself are all

Are the mods listening?
Gurkha is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2010, 23:15   #305
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,233
Thanked: 13,978 Times
Default

Mods are listening, however we interfere only if the discussion turns into personal attacks or mockery. Trashing a vehicle, well... that is a function of an auto forum.

While I don't own a Gurkha, my first cousin does, and I have driven it offroad. I found it very competent when I drove it offroad. In fact it performed better compared to my CJ340 in a head-to-head offroad test. However, I later discovered that the CJ340 had a broken leaf during the test.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-v...ml#post1277650

Last edited by Samurai : 18th March 2010 at 23:19.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2010, 12:22   #306
BHPian
 
hisunil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: GardenCity
Posts: 259
Thanked: 23 Times
Default

Guys,

I have only test driven the Gurkha in Bangalore for like an hour, both on road & Off road at a place where golf course was being bulldozed, You don't feel like its struggling to over come an obstrucal, there was not path in front of me & a 3 to 4 feet 90 deg straight climb on one wheel (left side) and a steep gradient on the other side (right wheel) the mech asked me to do it in 2x4 mode, I was not sure if any vehicle can clime it at all, after quite some persuasions I put it in 4x4 mode & did it, it just went over it as if the thing never existed.

Please note its my first OTR experience on any 4x4, I own a Matiz !! although I have done many OTR on bikes (gt-250) including M-La, I was left awestruck with the experience, went to test drive a Gypsy back to back but as usual cannot find one MPFI 1.3L (I have driven my bro's MG410w tough), went to a scorpio showroom and test drew the mHawk 2.2 2x4 (4x4 not available for TD) back to back and could notice the difference in comfort & power out right.

Agreed that 75Hp offering is relatively low for Gurkha w.r.t other options (BHP wise) available, but even with that under consideration, it really please me in the test drive.

One other thing about support, Mr Prashant from Kiviraj Bangalore is a very nice chap & has always been courteous to arrange for TD give info on other quires I have w.r.t OM611 etc, its not like they don't respond, even the GM was kind enough to reply to my email on multiple instances, so far the support has been very very good, I don't know about repair or spares.

Cheers
Sunil

EDIT: Ah, now I am not a newbe any more but a Bhpian
hisunil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2010, 14:18   #307
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kalyani, West Bengal
Posts: 444
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

I got the delivery of the Gurkha in October 1999, to my knowledge and to the knowledge of the then Bajaj Tempo executives, it was the only one of its kind in north. That itself was nothing to be happy about as I was called to demonstrate it on behalf of BTL quite a few times, the irony was that BTL always thanked me verbally but never ever obliged me when I needed spares or other kinds service. However their warranty work was good and thankfully, this vehicle hardly ever needed one as compared to the other vehicles I had in the family. Some of the demos were given on man made tracks, there was a farm house owned by an off road enthusiast in Gurgaon, he had a Pajero and a FJ Land Cruiser apart from a Safari 4x4. He was quite keen on the Gurkha and when I got the delivery, my brother and I were invited to his farmhouse. When we reached there, much to our surprise we noticed that our host had a huge man made track of hurdles and ditches ready to test the Gurkha out. My brother being the voice of reason declined and advised me to do the same but since my judgment sometimes gets clouded when faced with situations like this, I took the challenge. I had quite a lot of off road experience with various vehicles in US but my exposure to Gurkha was severely limited. Anyways, that day Gurkha managed to perform very well thanks to the Michelin XZL tires OEM on Gurkha then and its inherent strength, due to my inexperience with front lockers, I managed to strip the frong transfer case flange and differential crown, thankfully BTL gave me a replacement under warranty. Should have listened to my brother. Our host was quite impressed and order one Gurkha right away. Sadly it was never ever delivered to him, such is the story of Force motors. Mr. Mandeep Badal, another off road enthusiast and nephew of Punjab CM Praksh Sing Badal was another one who tested my Gurkha and wanted one but as usual, Force never responded. This man had a Jeep Wrangler among other vehicles that he owned. Its a pity how many such good opportunities were lost by Force.

In 2001, Mr. Gupta the then marketing MD called me up and requested to lend the vehicle out for a demo at Chandimandir cantt. I was living in Himachal then and therefore it was quite close to my house. I had an ulterior motive in procuring parts from Force so I compiled to his request. The Gurkha was put against Army's newly acquired MM550s and Gypsies, my brother insisted on taking the Jonga and so we did. Sadly even though Mr. Gupta and Force wanted to make this a photo opp, it was impossible as photography is strictly prohibited at any defense site. The trail comprised of basic slopes, ditches filled with water an some small humps which were in an offset, this was to make the rear wheel lift. The Gurkha did brilliantly and so did the Jonga whereas the MM550 needed serious effort in many of the ditches where its rear would lift. Also the Gurkha could be tilted far more than the MM550. We were not up against novices here, all were seasoned military veteran drivers and even some officers who were quite keen on this exercise. However at the end of the day, the Gurkha proved its brilliance, the Jonga did as well due to its sheer power of the HINO except for some ditches, surprisingly the Jonga did quite well as compared to the MM550 in the offset hump section and tended to lift its rear far less, both the Jonga and the Gurkha's stock ground clearance helped immensely as well.

After that test, in 2002, we demonstrated our Gurkha in the Punjab police trials, here it went against a Bolero and Tata Sumo 4x4, this was no competition at all as unlike the better designed MM550, the Bolero and the Tata fared miserably in tricky sections of the track.

My life in Himachal made it a necessity to drive these two 4WD and live with their shortcomings like no a/c etc. In US I have always had one car and one off road vehicle but here I don't have that luxury. The roads in HP would turn to veritable nightmare during monsoons, landslides being common, the roads would wash off and big rocks would be on the road closing virtually all traffic, I would have to negotiate that on regular basis and even with my high ground clearande, the Gurkha and the Jonga took some serious underbody hits and lived to tell.

My trip with the Gurkha in summer to Tamil Nadu and back was another testament to this vehicle's reliability. We didn't encounter any non metalled road or had to do any off road outing but we faced heavy monsoons while going and faced the famous Gujrat floods and lived to tell. The vehicle never faltered once. My brother and I have also taken the Gurkha and Jonga to LEH quite a few times while we lived in HP. Now at 131000 km on clock, the engine is still good as new thanks to Delo 400 and Delvac and orgiginal Mercedes design. It still has original clutch, no work has been done on gearbox, differential and transfer case, after eleven years, I changed the transfer case flange seal as well as differential seals as a precautionary measure. The front brake pads got changed at 80,000km and I didn't have to resurface the rotors. I expect them to last an other 80,000km before changing them at 160,000km.


By the way, I and my family have always been auto enthusiasts, for this we thank our late father and his elder brother who were eternal mechanics at heart. My father's elder brother, late Group Captain A.R.Chowdhury RAF/IAF was the CO of Chakeri and our garage in Delhi would always be full of scrap and parts that he would collect as a hobby. From his early days my father's hobby would be to build WW-II JEEPs so I am no stranger to JEEPs either. He along with his mechanic Patekar buidl Jeeps for some very famous people like late Gujrat MP Madavrao Solanki, Scindia and speaker Jhakar. My love for Jonga grew from days when getting a ride with the Army Jonga that would come to pick my uncle up. Our family was also among the first to get the MG410 when it was launched in 1985. It was totally made in Japan including headlights, speedometer and wipers. The engine with the Keihin carburettor was a dream to drive hitting 120kmph with ease, in fact I rate it better than the current and more powerful all aluminum 1.3L FI engine. We did plenty of off roading in that before I permanently left for my studies to US where I spent thirteen long years participating in various on and off road events and gaining useful and rich experience. I drove an 18 wheeler and got my license, I owned a Jeep Wrangler with inline 6 which was one of my poorer purchase, that vehicle equipped with ARB rear lockers did well off road but was among the most unreliable of the vehicles I owned, from busted differential to booster failure while coming down a steep downhill, I had enough with it and sold it off after six months of ownership. I realized that most US engineering and technology had really hit rock bottom, the name Dana was more of a legend than anything. The used 4 Runner which I picked up proved to be a darling and when I had it modified to my liking served me as well as my current Gukrha, it was sad to part with it when I returned back to India. Did my share of mistakes and learned from them. Sorry for this long post but needed to clarify where I stand and from what perspective I form my opinions.

I will now go back to my ghost stage, been a pleasure gentlemen, the Gurkha is in good hands of the likes of Dr. Mohan, Rhandle and Dr. Das, hate it or like it, its an entity in itself like no other.

Gurkha over and out.

Last edited by Gurkha : 19th March 2010 at 14:22.
Gurkha is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2010, 15:44   #308
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,913
Thanked: 15,573 Times
Default

Hmm so you are saying its an excellent vehicle let down by the manufacturer. Well thats what everybody is saying. This vehicle with support from force can fill in the void of a family friendly offroader under 8L. but thanks to force motors attitude, people who want the gurkha now can't buy it, and those who have it, have tough time with service?
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2010, 16:27   #309
Senior - BHPian
 
vinod_nookala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,737
Thanked: 410 Times
Default Trax Gurkhas Credentials

Quote:
In 2001, Mr. Gupta the then marketing MD called me up and requested to lend the vehicle out for a demo at Chandimandir cantt. I was living in Himachal then and therefore it was quite close to my house. I had an ulterior motive in procuring parts from Force so I compiled to his request. The Gurkha was put against Army's newly acquired MM550s and Gypsies, my brother insisted on taking the Jonga and so we did. Sadly even though Mr. Gupta and Force wanted to make this a photo opp, it was impossible as photography is strictly prohibited at any defense site. The trail comprised of basic slopes, ditches filled with water an some small humps which were in an offset, this was to make the rear wheel lift. The Gurkha did brilliantly and so did the Jonga whereas the MM550 needed serious effort in many of the ditches where its rear would lift. Also the Gurkha could be tilted far more than the MM550. We were not up against novices here, all were seasoned military veteran drivers and even some officers who were quite keen on this exercise. However at the end of the day, the Gurkha proved its brilliance, the Jonga did as well due to its sheer power of the HINO except for some ditches, surprisingly the Jonga did quite well as compared to the MM550 in the offset hump section and tended to lift its rear far less, both the Jonga and the Gurkha's stock ground clearance helped immensely as well.
Mr.Gurkha,
Did the fortunes of Force motors or then the Tempo limited go so low that they asked you to lend your vehicle for Army trial? Speaks about the company which cannot even lend a vehicle for one of the largest defense markets in the world!! I thought the army's only authentic 4x4 testing track in India is in Ahmednagar.

Regarding MM550 lifting wheel before Gurkha or Jonga did, its a Joke!! First, an IFS vehicle cannot match the articulation of a solid axle vehicle and second you are talking about comparing it with a jeep with its legendary axle flexibility!!

Did Indian Army also have selective blindness and not going for Gurkha? How come this happened when you yourself where there to demonstrate the stuff?

How many Gurkhas are doing duty in Indian Army today?


Quote:
After that test, in 2002, we demonstrated our Gurkha in the Punjab police trials, here it went against a Bolero and Tata Sumo 4x4, this was no competition at all as unlike the better designed MM550, the Bolero and the Tata fared miserably in tricky sections of the track.
May i know how many vehicles order did Force secure?? Long time back may be 10 years back Tamil nadu police secured Trax models for their police force as a back up after Mahindra & TATA. Mahindra continues to supply boleros here. Where is Force sir?
Can you show me any police force department where Force trax is used more than M&M counter part?
If trax was so good then why next to no sales with government departments?

My father worked for NMDC ltd a mining company. Forget TATA not even a single vehicle from Force could get into fleet of that multi crore organisation. Gypsys were considered good but type of fuel went against it. There, they required bullet proof reliability, parts support and of course off road ability.

I have seen couple of Trax 4wd's SWB in goverment departments. Those vehicle were without diff locks for cost reasons. Trax gurkha with its flat body panels and tubular chassis is cheaper to produce than a Mahindra. Trax people carrier is about 20 to 30 k cheaper than a M&M people carrier like MAxx festerra. Why doesn't it sell even when it has cost advantage?

Quote:
My trip with the Gurkha in summer to Tamil Nadu and back was another testament to this vehicle's reliability. We didn't encounter any non metalled road or had to do any off road outing but we faced heavy monsoons while going and faced the famous Gujrat floods and lived to tell. The vehicle never faltered once. My brother and I have also taken the Gurkha and Jonga to LEH quite a few times while we lived in HP. Now at 131000 km on clock, the engine is still good as new thanks to Delo 400 and Delvac and orgiginal Mercedes design. It still has original clutch, no work has been done on gearbox, differential and transfer case, after eleven years, I changed the transfer case flange seal as well as differential seals as a precautionary measure. The front brake pads got changed at 80,000km and I didn't have to resurface the rotors. I expect them to last an other 80,000km before changing them at 160,000km.
May be your vehicle is the only piece built to last!! May be its a master piece. From what i have interacted with regular taxi drivers here Trax biggest problem is excessive tyre wear. That's enough to doom a vehicle. Plus plenty of other problems with poor ***. Some sale figures for you of the complete Force motors stable of vehicles since2006-

Fy 06- 7223 units
Fy07- 8499 Units
Fy 08- 8133 units
Fy 09- 5063 Units
Fy 10- 1168 units (year yet to complete)

Force Motors utility vehicle sales-
Fy 06 555 Units
Fy07 1242 Units
Fy 08 326 units
Fy 09 35 units
Fy 10- 26 units until now



M&M Jeep sale only in feb 10- 985 jeeps , i am not even adding other models here. FYI bolero on an average sells 5,000 units a month!

Can you let me know how many Gurkhas were sold last month?

So do you say Indians are fools not to recognize the talent Trax had? Tempo has been selling trax from 1985/86. Then it was sold with authentic MB mechanical s, then why it did not sell sir? How come indians found pukegot/ MDI engines and korean transmissions better than German ones? I am sure M&M didn't bribe the regular Indian public at least!

Please don not insult the intelligence of fellow Indians who opted for WWII relics over German engineering master piece. Jeeps were fit for the purpose and Trax was not!


Quote:
Sorry for this long post but needed to clarify where I stand and from what perspective I form my opinions.
Doc it is too hard to believe you couldn't manage to get yourself clicked even once during 11 years of off road experience. Any video of your Gurkha doing where jeep would curl up and die?

I am posting some articulation pics of my jeep. Please post that of yours. If you haven't manage to click pics of your Gurkha then please do the honors today! Please get your Gurkha out and take it over the pavement with diff lock OFF. You will see one wheel spinning in the air. Lets at least sort the articulation issue out!

Quote:
Gurkha over and out.
Truly!
Attached Thumbnails
10 Dummies guide to Gurkha ~ 17000 kms done-dsc08473.jpg  

10 Dummies guide to Gurkha ~ 17000 kms done-dsc08461.jpg  

10 Dummies guide to Gurkha ~ 17000 kms done-dsc08469.jpg  

Attached Images
 

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 19th March 2010 at 16:36.
vinod_nookala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2010, 16:45   #310
Senior - BHPian
 
suman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 256 Times
Default

Guys, why are there so many Jeep pics on this thread. I thought it was a guide to the Gurkha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Can you show me any police force department where Force trax is used more than M&M counter part?
Gurgaon Police. Seriously. They have a few Force Trax....and Gypsies.
suman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2010, 16:50   #311
Senior - BHPian
 
vinod_nookala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,737
Thanked: 410 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Guys, why are there so many Jeep pics on this thread. I thought it was a guide to the Gurkha!


Gurgaon Police. Seriously. They have a few Force Trax....and Gypsies.
Suman,
Cannot help it when there is a comparison. I urge Gurkha owners to put the pics of their beasts off roading. Trust me even i am tired of looking at jeep pics every where.

I feel good for Force motors and thank Gurgaon police for keeping Trax alive!
vinod_nookala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2010, 17:03   #312
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,026
Thanked: 373 Times
Default

This is lot off topic but I feel Force Motors deserve to die and make way for better companies.

Well pardon my ignorance as I am not a 4X4 guy or a jeeper but I have seen few trax vehicles mostly toofan taxi in Kerala and just one force gamma belonging to health department in Khandawa ( M.P) in real life. Incidentally all the specimen i have seen were rusted very badly . May be just a coincidence or may be it points to shoddy body paint.

I have following gripe against Force motors ( and same applies to M&M as well)

1. You got G Wagon in 1980s and since that time Mercedes and G Wagon have moved ahead by light years but Force Gurkha is stuck in early 80s.
Yes Shah of Iran being a shareholder in MB conceptualized this vehicle but he was thrown over by Khomani in 1979 but Force is sticking to a mid 70s body shell design still.

Ditto goes for M&M and WW2 era jeeps.

2. There was no effort to improve engine or design by Force , They degraded the engine from OM616 and now talking of OM616 again as if this engine is god send gift. However good it may be but there is a shelf life for everything.

Hyundai / Kia and Ssongyong motors were nowhere when Bajaj Tempo and M&M were sitting on world class designs and huge markets of Indian defence of that era.
Hyundai evolved WW2 Jeep to Korando and same got evolved to VFM SUVs of Hundai / Kia.

End result you can see where is Hundayi and what is the situation of Bajaj Tempo / Force.

M&M is little better but they woke up too late so still playing catchup game.

3. Such lethargic companies who can not evolve are neither good for consumers nor for nation. Korea and Japan are developed because of their corporates and not because of thier governments ( they are far more corrupt then Indian governments going by number of scandles)
Comparison of India and Korea in 70s and 90s , 2000 and today is best example to elaborate this point.
amitk26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2010, 18:44   #313
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kalyani, West Bengal
Posts: 444
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

Note from the Team-BHP Support Staff : Insulting remarks on fellow BHPians are STRICTLY prohibited on Team-BHP. All members are part of the Team-BHP family and any discriminating or derogatory comment is uncalled for.

Last edited by Samurai : 19th March 2010 at 21:03. Reason: Insulting remarks
Gurkha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2010, 19:14   #314
Senior - BHPian
 
vinod_nookala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,737
Thanked: 410 Times
Default

[quote]The IFS versus live axle debate is a joke and till now, it refuses to go away. The Mahindra's bane is suspension travel where the Gukrha more than makes it up with its extensive travel. No, the Gurkha didn't lift its rears like the Mahindra and that is a fact. [quote]

A bunch of lies becomes a fact, and countless M&M 4wd owners demonstrating in in regular OTR's becomes a Lie. If you dare to please post the pics of your Gurkha articulating vis a vis a Mahindra.




Quote:
You mention about Indian army buying Gurkha, FYI, South African forces, Honduras, Malaysian and even Sril Lankan army bought Gurkha and Judo vehicles, the reason Indian army backed off is because the cheap, low quality Mahindra was available at less than Rs.3lakh whereas the Gurkha even with all taxes cut was not making it below 5lakh, thats the reason why it never made it into the army whereas internationally, it was sold in Germany, Italy and France where till today, you can see them running here and there. As a matter of fact, since the original Gurkha used Mercedes components to a largest degree, it was difficult for the company to keep up the numbers in local market unless they were made for export. Also Force motors couldn't commit the necessary numbers to the armed forces, don't think for once that the folks at Chandimandir testing grounds weren't impressed, its was matter of budget and good old Indian red tape and that don't really matter. They sold enough numbers in export from whatever they could gather. You speak of Force being in same breath as Mahindra, again, open your eyes, Force has technical collaboration with Mercedes and now MAN, in case you are not aware, two of the biggest automobile giants. Only an ignoramus stuck in Mahindra bin can have this kind of thinking. Tell me how many Mahindra MM550 are in use by enthusiasts in Europe, mind you, Germany is the home of the mighty Gelade Wagen. Show me one army apart from Indian army using MM550? Insult intelligence? LOL! Where is the IQ may I ask, its not about adapting to Gurkha, its about economics stupid and thats the final answer. No go sulk at your Mahindra thread and leave this thread be.
May i ask you to mind your language? I have posted the numbers what Force motors did in domestic market to substantiate my claim. Can you post how many Gurkhas were exported last month or even for the whole year?

Let numbers do the talking not you!

Quote:
Since you mention cost of Gurkha, be aware that an OM616 costs the company upward of Rs.1.20 lakh whereas the Pujkegot in Mahindra can be had for Rs.35000, no wonder its the cheaper choice of all the air conditioner units in buses and gensets where the reputation of this said engine is worse.
Please get your numbers right! Indians werent fool to go in for MDI and peugeot diesels right from 1986 if they were of substandard quality



Quote:
As for tire wear in Gurkha, suggest you get out of Thambi land and go visit areas like HP, Uttaranchal where you will see plenty of Trax in action on the hills, do you know the reason why?
again please post sale figures in those areas. Can you? You cannot because force is selling in single digit now.

Quote:
Apart from the lowest tire wear, it has the best suspension components that outlast your average Mahindra and other vehicles, not to mention an engine which refuses to die unlike Mahindra Pukegot junk that dies by 35000km.
Oh so you mean to say Peugeot engine dies by 35,000 kms? So all the guys buying a M&M are idiots to rebuild engines after 35k kms!

Quote:
Can't say that about Mahindra Scorpio or MM550, both are reputed tire eaters, even the military had the same comment at Chandimandir.
Tire eaters? M&M pickups solid axle tire wears at 60,000 kms to 80 000 kms! These are facts. Scorpio it varies from 40k to 55 k due to IFS. Army MM550 tyres wear out because of its pattern not because of its suspension.


Quote:
Let us fellow owners of this unfortunate vehicle called Gurkha lament at out low IQs while your fortunate highly intelligent scrap bucket owners capture great challenges of climbing some ant hills and crossing some backyard drains.
Gurkha OM616 faliled crossing a portion of that back yard drain you are talking about leave alone the trail itself


Quote:
Those folks asking for pictures and videos should consider checking Rhandle and Dr. Mohan's threads, they regularly post videos and pictures of their outing, sad part is then the so called Jeep polluters who are in this thread never even bother to comment. So don't ask for pics or vids with sickening redundancy, RTFB first.
I havent questioned rhandles and Dr mohan credentials, atleast they have got guts to take their vehicles out and pit it against the best. What about you? Please prove your off road credentials. Walk the talk!

BTW Keep those Diff locks ON!

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 19th March 2010 at 19:23.
vinod_nookala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2010, 20:52   #315
Distinguished - BHPian
 
4x4addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,941
Thanked: 2,437 Times
Default

Gurkha. Can you please enlighten us which components anything on the current Gurkha is carried over from the original G-wagen?

Engine?
GearBox?
T-Case?
Differentials?
Chasis?
Body?
Suspension?
Interiors?
etc...

Just because the G-Wagen is an awesome vehicle which I totally agree with, why do people assume that Gurkha is a G-wagen?

First off to get opinions respected on this or any forum, members have to give rational explanations. Comments like mine is the best 4x4 in the world etc usually end up with negative responses. If you noticed gypsy/jeep/ and some Gurkha owners get along fine in this forum and discuss positives and negatives of the their vehicles.

Member Gurkha, At the cost of getting an infraction, I think someone needs to tell you the truth, people are not bashing the Gurkha. Most off-roaders have seen one in action under stand the pros and cons, what people are bashing is your absolutely one sided view that Gurkha is the ultimate off-roader in the world which only you in this world and maybe an editor of an obscure German magazine believe.

The other gurkha owners have been seen off-road. The only time I have seen you is praising the vehicle endless on these forums and the other one you got banned from. Why don't you take your Gurkha for one of the off-road trips and prove it's unstoppable character.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 19th March 2010 at 20:54.
4x4addict is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dummies Guide to Driving a Town Bus wildsdi5530 Commercial Vehicles 11 5th November 2010 00:43
FIAT Palio 1.2 NV Sport EDIT - 17000 kms Update neoonwheels Long-Term Ownership Reviews 16 15th March 2010 10:25
17000 Watt Car Stereo abhibh In-Car Entertainment 7 6th December 2007 05:08
Formula One Racing For Dummies milindbajekal Int'l Motorsport 2 23rd February 2005 15:29
Car Hacks and Mods for Dummies milindbajekal Modifications & Accessories 2 9th February 2005 10:41


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:07.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks