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Old 16th March 2009, 21:20   #76
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Rhandle, what a fantastic report! Congratulations on your Gurkha; absolutely loved the pictures. She looks damn purposeful; truly mean and aggressive. In fact, some of the offroading pics make her look like a Merc G-Wagen from afar. Its great to see someone buy a new 4x4 and take her offroading right away.

Don't sweat. Initial build quality may be terrible, though Force depends on you to set things right. Inexcusable for a 9 lakh rupee car, but the good news is : By 10,000 kms you would have found all the loose ends and sorted them out. These machines are extremely simple in construction. The NVH are pretty much in line with most basic offroaders (including Jeeps & Gypsies), but the highway manners / ride quality of the Gurkha are way superior.

Been there, done that. I remember my first night out to celebrate the Classics delivery (on my birthday). Once run on the western express highway and I was like "How the hell am I going to live with this for 5 years"? Needless to say, its been 12 years of joy and the Jeep has gone on to become a permanent asset of my garage.

Are you kidding? Your straight-forward honest style has made this report amongst the best on Team-BHP. Look, I just clicked the 5 star rating button.
You betcha! I also thought of my early Jeep days when reading his comments. Namely:

Absolutely. Keep her for life and continually improv her build & performance. Trust me, you have motivated more than just a handful of people to buy a Gurkha.
Thanks a lot GTO. My search actually started with Classic and ended on this. BTW I am jealous of you for having Classic which still makes my head turn whenever it passes by me.


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Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
This is one of the best ownership reviews I have read so far. Always knew the Gurkha was a great vehicle, but somehow felt it was too specialized a tool for us laymen to use/live with on a day-to-day basis. Rhandle, your report was like "The complete idiot's guide to off-roading, and living with off-roaders"!

Just one question: Other than hardcore OTR trips, have you made a general long drive on normal national/state highways? How did the car perform then? Note that factors like driver & passenger fatigue, vehicle overheating, reliability etc become paramount in such drives (rather than just the sturdiness and capability of the vehicle), which is the point of making this query.


Well I have not done long highway trips on this yet. Been once to Rishikesh, once to Jaipur and once to mehndipur Balaji from Delhi. They are all just 500-600kms round trip.

My kind of long drives which I do are more like from here(Noida/delhi) to Mumbai/Diu and to Shirdi. I have been going to Shirdi almost every year. Once I went with my enfield. Since my family also accompanies me I would be able to tell you much more in details.

Trust me, you wont have to wait long. I am waiting for my registration number and as soon as I get it I would be off to Mumbai.

BTW in my first trip it was bad for all. 2nd trip was good for just me. 3rd trip was almost ok for all. But since these were pretty small distance trips can not comment much especialy on fatigue front.

I had scorpio before Safari. Ahemdabad is my Saural. So I drive directly from Delhi to Ahemdabad (with time varying from 18 to 11 hrs), which is with my family - wife and my two kids. The family trips has been completed on :

Matiz, Swift, Corolla, Scorpio, Safari all have done at least two trips to Shirdi via mumbai.

I am attached to Matiz one, but Swift and corolla had been my favorites one. The worst was on Scorpio.

I hate to admit though Safari was the most comfortable one.
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Old 17th March 2009, 10:28   #77
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Any of you seen the new tata Xenon. It has the same Dicor 2.2L engine and also has a 4X4. Comments on it?
Cheers
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Old 17th March 2009, 14:55   #78
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Any of you seen the new tata Xenon. It has the same Dicor 2.2L engine and also has a 4X4. Comments on it?
Cheers
Liked the concept and the vehicle..but the leaf spring setup makes me take a second look as my personal vehicle!
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:18   #79
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Originally Posted by ShyamSCrdi View Post
Any of you seen the new tata Xenon. It has the same Dicor 2.2L engine and also has a 4X4. Comments on it?
Cheers
Hey - , this thread is exclusively for the Gurka! There are other threads covering the Xenon, do a search and post there!!!
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Old 18th March 2009, 10:57   #80
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Hey - , this thread is exclusively for the Gurka! There are other threads covering the Xenon, do a search and post there!!!
I wanted a comparison between the trux and the tata off roaders nothing else. I guess thats not off topic is it?

@headers - what is a leaf spring setup?
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Old 18th March 2009, 11:10   #81
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Originally Posted by ShyamSCrdi View Post
I wanted a comparison between the trux and the tata off roaders nothing else. I guess thats not off topic is it?

@headers - what is a leaf spring setup?
Do not even think anyone will try comparing Trax 4X4 to xenon. I am a fan of xenon but when it comes to serious off roading I will chose the Gurkha any day.
leaf spring set is is suspension setup ,used by vehicles like sumo, M&M vehicles,Xenon rear suspension. I hope you got it.
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Old 18th March 2009, 11:12   #82
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Originally Posted by ShyamSCrdi View Post
I wanted a comparison between the trux and the tata off roaders nothing else. I guess thats not off topic is it?...
It is. This is the ownership thread, let us not go off track with its intent.

For you comparison, make a post in the Tata Xenon thread and not here.
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Old 18th March 2009, 12:08   #83
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Originally Posted by dinar View Post
leaf spring set is is suspension setup ,used by vehicles like sumo, M&M vehicles,Xenon rear suspension. I hope you got it.
That is quite a "marginal" explanation, if I may say so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShyamSCrdi View Post
@headers - what is a leaf spring setup?
A leaf spring setup is a suspension setup which comprises of a number of arc shaped spring steel leaves placed one below the other. These are joined together and the vehicle damper passes through the center of the bunch. (see pic below). It is a very old, simple and relatively inexpensive method of springing, and can be easily strengthened to carry heavy loads by increasing the number of springs or spring thickness. For its simplicity and low cost, it still finds use in all Heavy Vehicles and for rear suspensions of MUVs.

However, a leaf spring is the most basic suspension setup and is bad at absorbing successive shocks (or sideways shocks). Thats why most modern cars have resorted to an all-round coil spring setup (self-explanatory, I guess). The reason why Header wants to avoid the Tata Xenon is because he would rather not compromise on comfort in his personal vehicle, considering the amount of money he would have to pay for a Xenon!

Do this for an exercise. Ride your Getz along your favourite backroad, then do the same trip on a Mahindra Major or Commander back-to-back. The lack of comfort in the second ride will tell you the difference in leaf and coil springs.

The first pic below (courtesy Wikipedia) is that of a leaf spring on a truck. The second (Welcome To ProCarCare) is that of a coil spring setup on a car.

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Old 18th March 2009, 12:13   #84
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Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
That is quite a "marginal" explanation, if I may say so.



A leaf spring setup is a suspension setup which comprises of a number of arc shaped spring steel leaves placed one below the other. These are joined together and the vehicle damper passes through the center of the bunch. (see pic below). It is a very old, simple and relatively inexpensive method of springing, and can be easily strengthened to carry heavy loads by increasing the number of springs or spring thickness. For its simplicity and low cost, it still finds use in all Heavy Vehicles and for rear suspensions of MUVs.

However, a leaf spring is the most basic suspension setup and is bad at absorbing successive shocks (or sideways shocks). Thats why most modern cars have resorted to an all-round coil spring setup (self-explanatory, I guess). The reason why Header wants to avoid the Tata Xenon is because he would rather not compromise on comfort in his personal vehicle, considering the amount of money he would have to pay for a Xenon!

Do this for an exercise. Ride your Getz along your favourite backroad, then do the same trip on a Mahindra Major or Commander back-to-back. The lack of comfort in the second ride will tell you the difference in leaf and coil springs.

The first pic below (courtesy Wikipedia) is that of a leaf spring on a truck. The second (Welcome To ProCarCare) is that of a coil spring setup on a car.
Oh yeah I remember the scorpio originally being the leaf spring type now it is not. Right thanks you guys.

@HappyWheels - Well i may as well ask the owner of a Gurkha which is a better choice . Anyway sorry if it such a wrong thing to do all i wanted was an opinion from Rahul himself.
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Old 18th March 2009, 12:18   #85
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Default Gurkha price.

Hi Guys,
Went to Force motors yesterday, they quoted me INR 5,27075/- Ex Showroom price for gurkha in THANE. I know some one was saying it's close to 8.5 grand in banglore. why such a big difference in price ?
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Old 18th March 2009, 12:38   #86
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Originally Posted by ShyamSCrdi View Post
Oh yeah I remember the scorpio originally being the leaf spring type now it is not. Right thanks you guys.

@HappyWheels - Well i may as well ask the owner of a Gurkha which is a better choice . Anyway sorry if it such a wrong thing to do all i wanted was an opinion from Rahul himself.
Okay, I myself would hate to see this thread getting Hi-jacked by Tata Xenon.

My 2 cents:

Xenon is an impressive looking car. Got the power and torque. Besides Tata brand name and the hassles which come with it. Please go through the Safari threads and you would find the complaints. Even I had had my hands full. In fact right now I simply do not like sitting in Safari even as passenger. The reason being the strange vibrations in the car which gives a feeling like to throw up.

Xenon would be no different than Safari. Also the rollover would be much more in this vehicle than compared to Safari.


One of the NIOC member is going to get the vehicle soon and therefore you would be having more details about it.

Now coming over to if I would have bought it considering both were available off the shelf. I guess not. The usuage for different people are different. I would not fancy myself going in Xenon to my office everyday. Had I been milk distributor then I wud have loved it, carrying milk cans, fodder for my buffalos, and at times dung, Xenon would have made lot of sense had I been staying near my village. I would not do purposeful off-road with Xenon but it wud be good for bad-road near village.

In city Xenon would be for people who can afford more than one car, with Xenon just for fun, parked at their farm house. A more kind of weekend drive-away if they can find time.

Again this is just my perspective. and I might be wrong on others perspective. All vehicles being made are sold, so definately somebody finds their usage.

In the end I can just say these are two different animals all together. Xenon wud any day beat Gurkha in terms of load carrying capacity whether in people or Milk cans and also speed on highway.

Gurkha would be easily able to beat it in hardcore off-roading, easy of driving in crowded streets, reversing, parallel parking, on basis of being SWB and more tuned towards off-roading.

The choice is urs bro'
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Old 18th March 2009, 13:25   #87
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I have recommended the Gurkha to many persons over the years but only one has justified my choice and thats Rhandle. Seems finally the vehicle has an objective person as its mouthpiece and this makes me the happiest person. My only wish is that he would have got the OM616 turbo engine Gurkha rather than this DI version but even then, the DI is lock stock Gurkha in every sense.

Anyways here is my take on Tata Xenon and I am also an ex Safari 4x4 owner. I went through hell with Safari, more so than on my Armada Grand. From overheating to breaking powertrain parts to clutch and severe electrical nightmares. The fact remains that this is not a well tested vehicle. It has been put together over time using components that were not truly made for its intended duties. If the word in Mercedes and subsequently Trax is overengineering and not lofty claims of high bhp, aesthetics etc, in Tata its reverse, its lofty claims, slick ad campaign and finally let the customer work it out. So in my case when my crown developed play after 48,000 km of mixed on and off road use, their excuse was, it happens. I then found out that the parts used in the Surferi suspension are quite weak. They might take occasional off road jaunts but are not capable of doing daily off road treks without damage. The tranny is weak, the rear diffs are weak and so are the associated parts. The front suspension gets out of shape frequently if driven over rough roads and needs frequent alignments or face premature and costly tire wear. Every 15k I would go through severe front tire wear no matter what I did. Tata had no plausible explanation. The manager told me that I abused my vehicle by taking it off road. Final straw came when my engine began to drink oil, whereas in the Trax, I would hardly ever top up in the six month/6000km span between oil change, in this, it was a weekly affair. In summers with a/c on, it would be regular cat and mouse game with the temp gauge climbing up steadily over 80C. Every third day, I would have to top up with coolant. This was just not the case with my Safari alone, I met many others including people I knew well who were having same problems. Anyways, the Xeonon is attractive, has 114bhp and good torque, however going over the low ratios, I don't think it would be particularly good climbing a mud hill. What you need is really high ration in 4L, then with a tractable engine, all you do is feather the throttle to go up. Also the B&W transfer case is notorious for switch contact issues when the vehicle is dunked. I see no anti roll bar or stablizer arms in rear, a bad omission, not only would this be one twitchy vehicle to drive on road, it would break its rear with ease with the torquey engine. I also notice in typical Tata and Scorpio fashion that the suspension travel in rear as well as front is low. Combined with the rigid box frame chassis, that would mean the wheels would lift easily and would defeat the LSD. Lastly any serious off roaders need a minimum of 220mm of ground clearance, at 200mm, this just doesn't cut it.

Just my two cents, I have no desire to offend any happy Tata owners and time will tell and who knows, my conjecture might be proven wrong and in that case, I would be happy to welcome a worthy edition to the choice in the Indian 4WD scene. I have seen claims of over 200,000 miles on an original Indica engine but then exceptions just don't break the norm. Tata has a long way to go and build consumer confidence by marketing an overengineered thorougly tested vehicle to gain back all the respect.

If only Toyota would listen to logic and market the venerable Hi Lux in limited numbers, thats the vehicle that would give the Gurkha some serious challenge and would last as long as well.
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Old 18th March 2009, 13:36   #88
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Tata Xenon - SA 4x4 Community Forum - The only forum for the offroad and 4x4 enthusiast

Some interesting internation take on Tata Xenon, as usual, its about the lac of quality.

i will NEVER buy dubbelKmiddelA like that again!!! i thought this was a good buy but after 3k km the injectorpump fell off, fixed under warrantee after i towed the piece of sh$%^^ 300 km to windhoek then my technichians hit a traffic sign trying to avoid a donkey,
R 38000 damage ( bumper, grille, headlight, bonnet, windshield, dent in roof) took 10 weeks for the parts at half the priche of a new one THIS SUX
lucky for me the techies took out a cow and totaled the tata. tata is now in tataheaven and im a happy man TATA: NEVER AGAIN!!!


I like
Plenty of rear leg room
Mp3/Cd player with usb

I do not like
1) Very slow power steering
2) Brakes do not feel very encouraging
3) Very bouncy ride
4) Cheap plasticy interior with rough edges
5) Huge gaps around some plastic bits
6) Gearing is all wrong
7) Very noisy interior
A lot of engine vibration
9) throttle is bit on the sensitive side
10) 2200Rpm at 120km/h (redline 3000rpm)
11) Can't down gear from 5th to 4th if you are doing over 110km/h That sends it into the redline and beyond
12) Its Hard to maintain 120km/h
13) Speedo is really inacurate indicated 120km/h is about 104km/h true speed
14) About none of the body are aligned correctly
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Old 18th March 2009, 15:47   #89
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Originally Posted by alligator View Post
Hi Guys,
Went to Force motors yesterday, they quoted me INR 5,27075/- Ex Showroom price for gurkha in THANE. I know some one was saying it's close to 8.5 grand in banglore. why such a big difference in price ?


These FORCE guys. Check again, I believe they have quoted you for GAMA and not Gurkha. In Delhi Gama is 5.37 ex showroom.
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Old 18th March 2009, 17:21   #90
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Originally Posted by Gurkha View Post
Tata Xenon - SA 4x4 Community Forum - The only forum for the offroad and 4x4 enthusiast

Some interesting internation take on Tata Xenon, as usual, its about the lac of quality.

i will NEVER buy dubbelKmiddelA like that again!!! i thought this was a good buy but after 3k km the injectorpump fell off, fixed under warrantee after i towed the piece of sh$%^^ 300 km to windhoek then my technichians hit a traffic sign trying to avoid a donkey,
R 38000 damage ( bumper, grille, headlight, bonnet, windshield, dent in roof) took 10 weeks for the parts at half the priche of a new one THIS SUX
lucky for me the techies took out a cow and totaled the tata. tata is now in tataheaven and im a happy man TATA: NEVER AGAIN!!!


I like
Plenty of rear leg room
Mp3/Cd player with usb

I do not like
1) Very slow power steering
2) Brakes do not feel very encouraging
3) Very bouncy ride
4) Cheap plasticy interior with rough edges
5) Huge gaps around some plastic bits
6) Gearing is all wrong
7) Very noisy interior
A lot of engine vibration
9) throttle is bit on the sensitive side
10) 2200Rpm at 120km/h (redline 3000rpm)
11) Can't down gear from 5th to 4th if you are doing over 110km/h That sends it into the redline and beyond
12) Its Hard to maintain 120km/h
13) Speedo is really inacurate indicated 120km/h is about 104km/h true speed
14) About none of the body are aligned correctly
The writeup is about the 3.0L xenon, we get the upmarket [elsewhere also] 2.2 L. so the issue mentioned from 6 onwards do not apply to the Indian version.
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