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Old 17th May 2009, 15:40   #16
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Hi
iron wolf i am not in stastion i gone to kalasa (chikamagalore) not checked the mail,i too looking for a good 550 for my friend,the rates quoted there are much more than bangalore,the reason is very limited 550 jeeps,i have a plan and i want to discuss with Jammy/aqua, if they accepts i will do that project first and u may also try that, its very simple as i thought there are plenty of mahindra pickups latest models like 05/06 with 4x4 and turbo engines for sale but they are lengthier we have to find it from experts how to make it short to suite for our OTR purpose.

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Old 17th May 2009, 23:08   #17
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Had spoke to Jammy on Friday. Got a good idea on rates etc.

The search is on. Went to few garages, saw many 2WDs. Finally at one garage I saw a 4x4 nicely done up. Not for sale. Owner was there > Team-Bhpian. <Small world>

Who else was there > Jammy. <Small world>

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreerajunnithan View Post
One of the "Cute" (Yes a car like comforts) Jeep that i ever came across, and a uniqe hard top. But it is sold out.

Yes 18-20k if your are reday to trade your existing GB and diffrentials.
hehehe!!! how dare u eye on my Jeep . You are so unlucky, i called up my mech for the same thing today and he just finalyzed a deal on 96? 540 for 95K. Dont worry, that elusive MM5XX is waiting for you somewhere . BTW did you check with "on-board Jeep stockist" MM440 (Jammy)? In every OTR he will find atleast half dozen of Jeeps which once belonged to him lol!!! Pm me for his number and let me know your contact number as well.

Thanks
--Sree--
Hey Sree, Already spoke to Jammy and bumped into him as well. Looking at all options at moment. Even from Gods own Country.

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Originally Posted by swastikviji View Post
Hi
iron wolf i am not in stastion i gone to kalasa (chikamagalore) not checked the mail,i too looking for a good 550 for my friend,the rates quoted there are much more than bangalore,the reason is very limited 550 jeeps,i have a plan and i want to discuss with Jammy/aqua, if they accepts i will do that project first and u may also try that, its very simple as i thought there are plenty of mahindra pickups latest models like 05/06 with 4x4 and turbo engines for sale but they are lengthier we have to find it from experts how to make it short to suite for our OTR purpose.
What price are these boys quoting for a 04-06 4x4 pickup? Length can always be chopped . well to an extent.
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Old 18th May 2009, 08:12   #18
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Dear Ironwolf - it is nice to note your interest in the MM540. Please post more pictures of the blue 2 wheel drive vehicle. Obviously it is not the NG chassis. The vehicle looks very decent but I think that the asking price is more. You need to negotiate. Converting from 2 wheel drive to 4 wheel drive is not easy. You need to go as per the BOM (bill of material) and you will not have access to such information. Please do not fall into the clutches of any unscrupulous garage, you will waste money and your vehicle will also get spoiled. I suggest if you buy it, you just use it as a 2 wheel drive vehicle or else do not buy it. Please speak to Vinod Nookala. He will give you more details. Also please PM me your mobile number, I will call you.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 18th May 2009, 11:05   #19
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Default 4WD conversion

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Converting from 2 wheel drive to 4 wheel drive is not easy.
Dhabhar Sir,

Its not easy, but its not impossible either. I have done it twice to My MM540XD, and at least 15-20 other JEEPs.

You will need the following Parts
1) Front Housing Assembly - Diff/Axles/Spindles/hubs/bearings/bolts
2) Gear Box & Transfer Case - KMT90-T18
3) Rear Axle with right off-set differential - Diff/SFRA/FFRA
4) Front Propeller Shaft & Rear Propeller Shaft

You can use the existing
1) Steering Setup
2) Front & Rear Brake Drums
3) Cross Member

Regards,

Arka

PS - Please add anything I have missed out.
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Old 18th May 2009, 12:07   #20
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HI iron Wolf
As Dhabar sir said it is not very easy but not very difficuilt either. A competent mechanic can do it and even M&M workshops do it. The following are the advantages going by the mechanic you know and who has the credibility to complete the job-

1. Will be a much cheaper affair
2. If he stays near old parts market non critical parts are easily available and can be used. Infact whole transfer case can be sourced and mated to your existing gearbox
3. Critical parts gone can be replaced with new ones.
4. This setup will work wonderfully for offroad situations but may not be reliable for life time.
5. older transfercases would have run about 10-15 years of time before being scrapped. Hence age will show.
6. Have lots of time to open --reopen if the need be!

Few things you must be lucky with if you do this-

1. You must be able to lay your hands on post 2000 model T/Case which would have run less

2. You must be lucky not to have the 4wd t/case whine and other noises which is present in old gearboxes due to improper maintenance as owners usually used to forget to put oil (incase of KMT derived t/cases)

3. Further the gears and casing must be strong to avoid slippage of gears in 4wd


Wisdom says-

1. Pick up an original 4wd vehicle as it would have original mechanicals intact (without opening)
2. If you plan to offroad seriously then go for 4wd else drop the idea of going for a jeep altogether. To me a 2wd jeep has no point of existance
3. Go for conversion with M&M workshop if you want the job done at its best. Remember genuine parts go a long way though they are costly initially. All depends upon how long do you want to keep your jeep. But be prepared to shell out lot of money there!! You will buy peace of mind for an additional price!


p.s- As Arka said there have been a lot of 2wd to 4wd conversion happening in chennai and are fairly reliable...(courtesy Scrap market and competent mechanic and guidance)
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Old 18th May 2009, 12:51   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post

Wisdom says-

3. Go for conversion with M&M workshop if you want the job done at its best. Remember genuine parts go a long way though they are costly initially. All depends upon how long do you want to keep your jeep. But be prepared to shell out lot of money there!! You will buy peace of mind for an additional price!


p.s- As Arka said there have been a lot of 2wd to 4wd conversion happening in chennai and are fairly reliable...(courtesy Scrap market and competent mechanic and guidance)

Hi Vinod,

For your information your MM540 was the first JEEP to be converted to 4WD by Balaji Reddy at Pudupet.

The 4WD Conversions are VERY Reliable.

I also remember sending parts to a M&M Garage in Mumbai for a 4WD re-conversion.

India Garage personnel regularly visit Pudupet for KMT90 & T18 parts and general wisdom on Transfer Cases.

But then off course....

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by ex670c : 18th May 2009 at 12:52.
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Old 18th May 2009, 13:30   #22
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Default 2wd to 4wd

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Vinod,

For your information your MM540 was the first JEEP to be converted to 4WD by Balaji Reddy at Pudupet.

The 4WD Conversions are VERY Reliable.

I also remember sending parts to a M&M Garage in Mumbai for a 4WD re-conversion.

India Garage personnel regularly visit Pudupet for KMT90 & T18 parts and general wisdom on Transfer Cases.

But then off course....

Regards,

Arka
Hey Arka,

So the first chennai Jeepthrills 2wd to 4wd conversion distinction goes to my jeep by its previous owner

Iam aware that my jeep was 2wd converted to 4wd. Iam also aware that M&M dealers themselves face lot of difficuilty in sourcing parts. But if the owner can wait for few weeks or months i must say, they can source a new transfer case at a price from the company. There is no difference in the workmanship atleast in 4wd cases as per my experience.

Pudupet jobs are fairly reliable and functional no doubt!!....but can they beat new ones interms of reliability? One needs to be lucky and patient enough to lay hands on the right piece. Here comes the Wisdom and expertise which not every one has!
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Old 18th May 2009, 14:04   #23
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Default The Wisdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Hey Arka,

So the first chennai Jeepthrills 2wd to 4wd conversion distinction goes to my jeep by its previous owner.

Iam aware that my jeep was 2wd converted to 4wd. Iam also aware that M&M dealers themselves face lot of difficuilty in sourcing parts. But if the owner can wait for few weeks or months i must say, they can source a new transfer case at a price from the company. There is no difference in the workmanship atleast in 4wd cases as per my experience.

Pudupet jobs are fairly reliable and functional no doubt!!....but can they beat new ones interms of reliability? One needs to be lucky and patient enough to lay hands on the right piece. Here comes the Wisdom and expertise which not every one has!
Hi Vinod,

Recently I was at a M&M garage specializing in multi-brand service, they were tasked to pit a MRCBT steering on a MM540DP, took them 3 weeks to figure out what to do, I personally went down a couple of times there to explain how to go about it.

It took them 2 months to get it done.

Then the fact of New=Reliable Yes at what price.

Front Axle/Diff/Housing Assembly 35-60K (King Pin Type-OKBJ)
Rear Axle/Diff/Housing FFRA Assembly 35K (Bolero)
Gearbox KMT90 - 40K
T-Case T-18 - 18K
Front Propeller Shaft - 4K
Rear Propeller Shaft - 5-7K

That is 1.48L on parts alone, then there is labour charges dis-assembly and re-assembly .

I practice what I preach, I use second hand parts & I suggest using second hand parts, So far I haven't met anyone who has got a 4WD conversion done from M&M or even bought a Front Axle/Diff/Housing Assembly.

I know a few who have bought gearboxes and kinkier one's who have bought brand new gears for a KMT90 & T18 for 27K.

Regards,

Arka

PS - The New Gen Front & Rear Axles and MRCBT steering are a pleasure to own.
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Old 18th May 2009, 14:33   #24
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Quote:
Recently I was at a M&M garage specializing in multi-brand service, they were tasked to pit a MRCBT steering on a MM540DP, took them 3 weeks to figure out what to do, I personally went down a couple of times there to explain how to go about it.

It took them 2 months to get it done.
Hey Arka,
This is what i said, I see no difference in the quality of workmanship between a M&M workshop and a regular 4wd mechanic. Infact the later is better as he works on it far more many times than the other..because passionate jeepers like you and I dont go to them

Quote:
Then the fact of New=Reliable Yes at what price.
I agree on this again. But Depends on the size of the pocket. For eg. 4x4 Addict went for a new NGT 520 4wd paying about 80,000 instead of old BA-10's!

Quote:

Front Axle/Diff/Housing Assembly 35-60K (King Pin Type-OKBJ)
Rear Axle/Diff/Housing FFRA Assembly 35K (Bolero)
Gearbox KMT90 - 40K
T-Case T-18 - 18K
Front Propeller Shaft - 4K
Rear Propeller Shaft - 5-7K

That is 1.48L on parts alone, then there is labour charges dis-assembly and re-assembly .
I agree with you here again. But again depends upon the size of the pocket and expectations out of vehicle. IMO it can be a best mix of old and new parts, like old axles (as they are built tough and fairly reliable), existing 2wd gearbox adpated to take newly bought transfer case, new propel shafts front and rear.This is my preferred mix.

The reason why i stressed for new transfer case is-
1. No whine
2. No gears slippage
3. Will engage into 4wd and out of it easily when required without fail
4. The new ones cost about 15,000-18000 at an authorised M&M spareparts dealer. The second hand 4wd gearbox is sold now a days for about 18-20k in unknown condition. So, when new ones price is equal to old then why go for old one?

I cannot preach what i practised unfortunately....worked for you not for me

P.S- Old can be good at times but one has to have keen eye for it which every one doesnt have.

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 18th May 2009 at 14:36.
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Old 18th May 2009, 15:17   #25
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Hi iron wolf there are 3 mm 550 XDB army disposal in chennai, all are 2002 models with the dealer, you may call him and enquire about the condition and all, he is quoting 1.8L, if you are interested please pm me i will give the contact number of the dealer.
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Old 18th May 2009, 15:20   #26
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Default COST OF SECOND HAND JEEP PARTS in Chennai

1) Front Unit King Pin Type - Complete Assembly - 5-6K
2) Rear Unit SFRA 5-6K
3) Rear Unit FFRA 6-9K
4) T90+T18 4-6K
5) KMT90 + T18 (Serviced) 15K
6) Armada 98 Steering Box 3K
7) MRCBT Steering Max/Pikup series 6K
8) FFRA conversion Kit 4K
9) T-18 TCase - 4K

This cost is including the exchange of your old components.

Propeller Shafts - Make your own Prop-Shafts with new components works out to 1.5K for Front and 2K for the Rear.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 18th May 2009, 15:50   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swastikviji View Post
Hi iron wolf there are 3 mm 550 XDB army disposal in chennai, all are 2002 models with the dealer, you may call him and enquire about the condition and all, he is quoting 1.8L, if you are interested please pm me i will give the contact number of the dealer.
XDB's are 5 speed vehicles right?? Shouldn't the army jeeps be XD?
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Old 18th May 2009, 15:59   #28
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Originally Posted by JayD View Post
XDB's are 5 speed vehicles right?? Shouldn't the army jeeps be XD?
Hi jayD you are right they are XD's with 4 speed GB i confirmed it with the dealer.
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Old 18th May 2009, 17:01   #29
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Everyone who PMed me. Thanks for you inputs and leads.

One Local Garage in Hennur Bande, they said they can do the conversion to about 10-12k. He said there is a rusting 540 whos parts he can use.

Hes not willing to show me the vehicle though. I am sure hes just going to go to the gujelee and pick em up.

I agree with Behram sir that its not worth messing the vehicle with some unknown wrench grease monkey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post

Wisdom says-

1. Pick up an original 4wd vehicle as it would have original mechanicals intact (without opening) - Agreed
2. If you plan to offroad seriously then go for 4wd else drop the idea of going for a jeep altogether. To me a 2wd jeep has no point of existance. - I am in the 4x4 section for this single reason. And I agree a 2WD is a car not a jeep.
3. Go for conversion with M&M workshop if you want the job done at its best. Remember genuine parts go a long way though they are costly initially. All depends upon how long do you want to keep your jeep. But be prepared to shell out lot of money there!! You will buy peace of mind for an additional price!
Agree that Wisdom should say a MM workshop should know about a conversion job. however Vijai Auto Garage (Now SKS enterprises) themselves dont believe in a 4x4 conversion and said they will do it, but dont recommend it. Weird? Well this is confirmed by Arka in his post as well.
Vinod,

Thanks again for your inputs. My comments inline. I completely agree with what you said. Which is why I am trying to source a factory 4WD. Less hassle. Factory build is factory build. I dont have that much patience to sit around in a garage for a conversion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Dhabhar Sir,

Its not easy, but its not impossible either. I have done it twice to My MM540XD, and at least 15-20 other JEEPs.

You will need the following Parts
1) Front Housing Assembly - Diff/Axles/Spindles/hubs/bearings/bolts
2) Gear Box & Transfer Case - KMT90-T18
3) Rear Axle with right off-set differential - Diff/SFRA/FFRA
4) Front Propeller Shaft & Rear Propeller Shaft

You can use the existing
1) Steering Setup
2) Front & Rear Brake Drums
3) Cross Member

Regards,

Arka

PS - Please add anything I have missed out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Ironwolf - it is nice to note your interest in the MM540. Please post more pictures of the blue 2 wheel drive vehicle. Obviously it is not the NG chassis. ...

Please speak to Vinod Nookala. He will give you more details. Also please PM me your mobile number, I will call you.

Behram Dhabhar
Behram sir,

First off thanks for your post, I dont think I will consider the 2002 540. While its clean and all, I dont think its the new chassis and the dealer is stuck on 1.6ish. If anyone wants a good strong car to fend off the Autos. Contact me.

I could not PM you as your PMs are full. Please PM your number. I will call you. I really appreciate your valuable feedback and time. Looking forward to talking to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
The 4WD Conversions are VERY Reliable.

....
India Garage personnel regularly visit Pudupet for KMT90 & T18 parts and general wisdom on Transfer Cases.

Arka
India Garage Blr right? I too felt they were not too knowledgeable. Maybe I spoke to the wrong person.

Looks like in a month or so, worst case > I may be driving a 2WD to chennai and a 4WD back to BLR. Unless Sree, Jammy and others can convince me otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swastikviji View Post
Hi iron wolf there are 3 mm 550 XDB army disposal in chennai, all are 2002 models with the dealer, you may call him and enquire about the condition and all, he is quoting 1.8L, if you are interested please pm me i will give the contact number of the dealer.
Check with Headers and other Chennai Annas. Thats one freken rust bucket. And for 1.8L. Highly overpriced. They have had that piece for over 6 months from what I hear.

Last edited by IronWolf : 18th May 2009 at 17:02.
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Old 18th May 2009, 17:34   #30
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Dear Arka - I think (let me check), the KPI (king pin inclination) angle for 2WD and 4WD is not same. There is no guide for the T18 transfer case cross bolt in the 2WD vehicles. There are 2 angular positions for this assembly, the cross member has an oval cut in it. There is supposed to be an aluminium spacer at this location or you will get driveline roughness and whine. Outside fellows will not go into such details, they may not even assemble the cross bolt. Please do not misunderstand me, outside fellows may be good but they are not expected to go as per the BOM / add delete list / 3D CAD layout for model conversion. In other words, we call the master document as RDS (release delete schedule). There is also a torque arrestor device in the 4WD vehicles. Remember the cable within a tube from the bell housing to the transmission mounting cross member? That's a spike arrestor. Therefore the bell housing will change. Where do I end this? I can go on and on and on.

Further, I am not surprised at your comments on your visit to the multi franchise dealership. How the hell will any normal person know about an RCBT conversion? Believe me, most people are not like us, we are a minority but we are in a class of our own. I am sure you will agree. By the way, the KPI for RCBT is definitely more than manual (the difference is 1.5 degrees, 7.5 v/s 9.0, the steering torque curve is different), the steering wheel of a converted RCBT will float at high speed if the knuckle is not changed. The caster is also different, was achieved by machining the axle pad at different angle so as to keep the pinion line same for a different caster. I know because we did Armada to Armada Grand where we solved these issues. I shudder to think how people spend their hard earned money doing such things without understanding the implications.

Please accept my best personal regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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