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Old 18th May 2009, 18:16   #31
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Arka - I think (let me check), the KPI (king pin inclination) angle for 2WD and 4WD is not same. There is no guide for the T18 transfer case cross bolt in the 2WD vehicles. There are 2 angular positions for this assembly, the cross member has an oval cut in it. There is supposed to be an aluminium spacer at this location or you will get driveline roughness and whine. Outside fellows will not go into such details, they may not even assemble the cross bolt. Please do not misunderstand me, outside fellows may be good but they are not expected to go as per the BOM / add delete list / 3D CAD layout for model conversion. In other words, we call the master document as RDS (release delete schedule). There is also a torque arrestor device in the 4WD vehicles. Remember the cable within a tube from the bell housing to the transmission mounting cross member? That's a spike arrestor. Therefore the bell housing will change. Where do I end this? I can go on and on and on.

Further, I am not surprised at your comments on your visit to the multi franchise dealership. How the hell will any normal person know about an RCBT conversion? Believe me, most people are not like us, we are a minority but we are in a class of our own. I am sure you will agree. By the way, the KPI for RCBT is definitely more than manual (the difference is 1.5 degrees, 7.5 v/s 9.0, the steering torque curve is different), the steering wheel of a converted RCBT will float at high speed if the knuckle is not changed. The caster is also different, was achieved by machining the axle pad at different angle so as to keep the pinion line same for a different caster. I know because we did Armada to Armada Grand where we solved these issues. I shudder to think how people spend their hard earned money doing such things without understanding the implications.

Please accept my best personal regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Behram Sir,


After accepting you best personal regards,

KPI is same for 2WD & 4WD Kingpin type Axles.

However there is a difference between King Pin Type and OKBJ type Front axles of 1.5 Degrees.

I agree with you on 2WD KMT90 vs 4WD KMT90. I strongly suggest rebuilding a 4WD KMT90 along with the TCase.

Since my MM540XD was company owned and a 2WD; well maintained it came with the Cross Member Aluminium Spacers and I have tried all sorts of experiments..
1) removed it
2) Shaved it to get minimum correction
3) Finally I decided to put them back on

The Spike Arrester is the Same for KMT90 (2WD or 4WD), in fact this was the first thing Mr. Uday Bhan Singh asked me check on my petrol CJ3B.

Thank you for adding these 2 important points/items to the 4WD Conversion List.
1) Aluminium Crossmember spacer. For 90" & KMT90+T18
2) Spike arrester.


The Very Best Regards,

Arka
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Old 18th May 2009, 18:24   #32
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
There is also a torque arrestor device in the 4WD vehicles. Remember the cable within a tube from the bell housing to the transmission mounting cross member? That's a spike arrestor. Therefore the bell housing will change.
Just curious. This cable dampens the torque vibrations that attend the transfer of drive to the front axle?
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Old 18th May 2009, 18:41   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Arka - I think (let me check), the KPI (king pin inclination) angle for 2WD and 4WD is not same. There is no guide for the T18 transfer case cross bolt in the 2WD vehicles. There are 2 angular positions for this assembly, the cross member has an oval cut in it. There is supposed to be an aluminium spacer at this location or you will get driveline roughness and whine. Outside fellows will not go into such details, they may not even assemble the cross bolt. Please do not misunderstand me, outside fellows may be good but they are not expected to go as per the BOM / add delete list / 3D CAD layout for model conversion. In other words, we call the master document as RDS (release delete schedule). There is also a torque arrestor device in the 4WD vehicles. Remember the cable within a tube from the bell housing to the transmission mounting cross member? That's a spike arrestor. Therefore the bell housing will change. Where do I end this? I can go on and on and on.

Please accept my best personal regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Behram sir,
This is truly an eye opener for me. Was aware of different cross member but bellhousing,torque arrestor deviceand aluminium spacer on the transfer case bed... completely unheard !!

For my knowledge sake what does torque/spike arrestor do?


Well, i have seen people work in R&D but not somebody with so much of passion and knowledge. Way to go behram sir

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 18th May 2009 at 18:47.
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Old 18th May 2009, 18:59   #34
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I agree with you on 2WD KMT90 vs 4WD KMT90. I strongly suggest rebuilding a 4WD KMT90 along with the TCase.
Arka bro,
Can you explain this in brief? You mean to say transfer case must not be adapted to existing 2wd gearbox?

Quote:
Since my MM540XD was company owned and a 2WD; well maintained it came with the Cross Member Aluminium Spacers...
Did 2wd come with aluminium spacers on cross member? Where is it exactly located?

This discussion is becoming very interesting and learning experience to me

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 18th May 2009 at 19:02.
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Old 18th May 2009, 19:30   #35
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
1) Front Unit King Pin Type - Complete Assembly - 5-6K
2) Rear Unit SFRA 5-6K
3) Rear Unit FFRA 6-9K
4) T90+T18 4-6K
5) KMT90 + T18 (Serviced) 15K
6) Armada 98 Steering Box 3K
7) MRCBT Steering Max/Pikup series 6K
8) FFRA conversion Kit 4K
9) T-18 TCase - 4K

This cost is including the exchange of your old components.

Propeller Shafts - Make your own Prop-Shafts with new components works out to 1.5K for Front and 2K for the Rear.

Regards,

Arka
Thanks Arka for breaking it down. Certainly is helpful


Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
..
For my knowledge sake what does torque/spike arrestor do?

Well, i have seen people work in R&D but not somebody with so much of passion and knowledge. Way to go behram sir
Lots of new concepts here. do explain this.


Behram sir,

Pm me, please
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Old 18th May 2009, 21:52   #36
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@Ironwolf, would you like to check this out ? Had seen it with a dealer in BTM ..

The elusive MM540 / 550. EDIT: New Search for ex-Army 550 on page 9-major2.jpg

@Star_Aqua : yes, the same one. Was still there last week. No further visits from this side.
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Old 19th May 2009, 00:20   #37
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NOt ideally what I am looking for. However I am sure hes asking about 2.25-2.5L?
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Old 19th May 2009, 02:32   #38
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The torque spike arrestor is a cable that contraints the rocking motion of the powerpack in one direction. Probably to handle sitiuation like foot slipping off the clutch pedal in 4L. The cable's slack can be adjusted.

The bolt holes in the Al spacers and top shim tend to creep (that is what i noticed on my 99 550), so one may want to add oversize washers on the bolts.

4x4 vehicles also have an additional bump stopper on the front RH side. Is this an additional damper to compensate for the offset diff?
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Old 19th May 2009, 09:02   #39
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Dear Arka - thank you for your information. I have not had time to cross check.

Dear all - the spike arrestor works as follows. First of all, what is a spike? A spike is the phenomenon which causes the front / back movement of the power plant (engine / bell housing / transmission) during sudden changes in acceleration / braking forces commanded by the operator. Most of these spikes happen in the X axis (longitudinal). The value is 13 mm for F4134 on CJ3B C section chassis. As the power plant is held on resilient mounts, some movement is allowed but excessive movement must be controlled. Therefore there is a cable attached from the transmission mounting cross member to the bell housing. There is a machined boss in the bell housing of 4WD vehicles to attach this cable. The cross member has a "fork" welded to it. The cable ball passes between the fork legs. Logically, the cable will arrest the "forward" movement of the power plant (during braking). What arrests the "backward" movement? There is a pipe assembled concentric with the cable which provides for this function. This arrangement is now not required for modern generation of power plant mounts as the torque control mechanism is built into their internal construction (see the Scorpio NEF mount, you will recognize).

Dear Vinod - 2WD vehicles do not have aluminium spacer as there is no cross bolt.

Hope this clarifies.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 19th May 2009, 10:55   #40
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Default All about KMT-90 & T18

Behram sir,
Thank you for your input. People like you and Arka forced me to look under my vehicle with a little more keen eyeThe following are the pics of fork where spike arrestor ball should have been there and the other one aluminium spacer on the cross member bed....
Attached Thumbnails
The elusive MM540 / 550. EDIT: New Search for ex-Army 550 on page 9-19052009994.jpg  

The elusive MM540 / 550. EDIT: New Search for ex-Army 550 on page 9-19052009988.jpg  


Last edited by Rehaan : 19th May 2009 at 20:50. Reason: Hi vinod, probably best not to quote a post that is directly above yours. Quote removed. :)
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Old 19th May 2009, 11:27   #41
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Quote:
IronWolf : NOt ideally what I am looking for. However I am sure hes asking about 2.25-2.5L?
The boys said 1.75L initially, after which the they said not below 1.6L. Have not spoken to the owner of that used car dealership, though.
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Old 19th May 2009, 13:36   #42
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Originally Posted by condor View Post
The boys said 1.75L initially, after which the they said not below 1.6L. Have not spoken to the owner of that used car dealership, though.
Dear Condor and IronWolf,
This seems to be like the same jeep which was at a second hand car dealer near my place. This is running on a Ford Fusion Diesel engine.
Please check this once again before you decide to buy.
Cheers,
Deepak
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Old 19th May 2009, 14:10   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starter View Post
Dear Condor and IronWolf,
This seems to be like the same jeep which was at a second hand car dealer near my place. This is running on a Ford Fusion Diesel engine.
Please check this once again before you decide to buy.
Cheers,
Deepak
Iron wolf
The jeep in picture is best to be avoided. There is no front drive shaft. The rear diff off set seems to be on LH side. Hence you cannot make 4x4 functional as i suspect even the gearbox might have changed to suit ford dusion diesel engine.

Any way you have already told that this is not what you are looking for.....
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Old 19th May 2009, 18:08   #44
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Naa, such fancy looking jeeps with car dealers are rarely functional or worth whats quoted.

Also, for that kind of money I could get a nice looking but highly functional offroader.

Apart from that its not a MM5x0.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vaspro View Post
Hi,

There is a dealer in Kanakapura road, Bangalore before Metro hypermart, who sells used Jeeps, mostly 2WD. When i went there 2 months ago, he has about 8 Jeeps for sale, most of them 2WD MM540s 94-99 models. These are pretty basic machines without any modifications. Asking price between 80k-1.2laks based on the model and condition of the jeep. However you can easily bargain. This guy offered 1998 MM540 for 75K (initially quoted 1.2laks).

-Vaspro
Vaspro others, if you can direct me to this Kanakpura dealer it would be great. As mentioned in my first post, I could not find this so called Kanakpura road dealer. 2 people seemed to know what I asked. However when I went to that location it was abandoned and the guy close by said they closed down.

Is the place you mentioned still open? if so directions please.

Last edited by IronWolf : 19th May 2009 at 18:08. Reason: typo
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Old 20th May 2009, 12:05   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWolf View Post
Naa, such fancy looking jeeps with car dealers are rarely functional or worth whats quoted.

Also, for that kind of money I could get a nice looking but highly functional offroader.

Apart from that its not a MM5x0.




Vaspro others, if you can direct me to this Kanakpura dealer it would be great. As mentioned in my first post, I could not find this so called Kanakpura road dealer. 2 people seemed to know what I asked. However when I went to that location it was abandoned and the guy close by said they closed down.

Is the place you mentioned still open? if so directions please.

Hey Dan,

I am late here.... Nice to your search . Keep it up.

Tarkesh
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