Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th November 2009, 19:39   #196
Senior - BHPian
 
pramodkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gods own country
Posts: 1,971
Thanked: 819 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
I have heard this many times over and would like some more info here for my own knowledge and learning.

What are the advantages that we are looking at if we use JUST the baleno HEAD?

How much cost and what all would be required if the gypsy is already a 1.3 mpfi?

What about reliability? legality?

Khan Sahab,

These mods were done a lot to esteems and swifts, the block in identical in a 1.3 and a 1.6 Suzuki engine. If a gypsy is already MPFI you do not need a lot of sensors and the ECU, the 1.3 ecu can drive the 1.6 head as both are SOHC and the working is same just what differs is the over all compression, in this case its higher. I also heard there are maps available for the stock ecu which can be detuned to use normal petrol despite of increased compression(someone can confirm this).

About reliability, its bolt on. And dosent require any modifications. You can refer to sreejith's(mexxentric's) thread and see the techicalities(read fabrications) involved incase of a complete engine swap, which IMHO is going to be less reliable if not done at a competent place. You can further mod this setup to improve results, which is the best part. The engine numbers are embosed in the bottom half or the block, since you are retaining that bit, its going to perfectly leagal.


Pramod
pramodkumar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2009, 22:27   #197
BHPian
 
techn0l0gist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ponda, Goa
Posts: 333
Thanked: 27 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
What are the advantages that we are looking at if we use JUST the baleno HEAD?

How much cost and what all would be required if the gypsy is already a 1.3 mpfi?

What about reliability? legality?
the baleno head itself on the 1.3L mpfi gypsy wouldn't do much difference as both are 16V and appear to be identical - not very sure as i'm not aware of the port sizes and other details (i believe the swift uses a baleno head or at least one that looks the same!. Also the baleno/swift heads have distributor-less ignitions and i don't think it will work with the gypsy ECU.

the baleno head swap onto the 1.3 L carb gypsy would make a drastic difference in performance - as the 1.3L carb version has a 8V head which is less efficient than the 16V head.

Reliability - depends on who does the swap and/or what parts one uses - I would avoid harnesses/sensors from the junkyard - since you are in bangalore - i'm sure there will be a person or two at least who'd know what they're doing about the legality - i don't see a problem as you're not changing the displacement (which is the only engine related thing mentioned in the RC book - at least mine - don't know what all they write in bangalore )

Hmm... cost - depends on the cost of the head - i've heard of complete heads with intake manifolds,injectors and sensors being sold for 5k - but i'm yet to come across such a deal , i'm too on the lookout for a 16v head for a good price .

Last edited by techn0l0gist : 28th November 2009 at 22:30.
techn0l0gist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2009, 01:14   #198
BHPian
 
Amar82's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ludhiana
Posts: 290
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
So, do you mean that you are NOT using the webber? If you are not, then I know someone who is looking for a webber carb for his 1.3 Gypsy. Let me know if you wana sell it to a fellow gypsy owner?
Hi Khan Bhai,
No, i am not using the webber carb. I have the latest model that fits the stock air filter.Let me know if somebody is interested.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
You can buy a head, intake manifold and exhaust manifold with all the necessary wiring and ECU from a baleno and use your existing bottom. This way the engine would be legal and more powerful than a 1.3 mpfi. Since nowadays its easy to find totaled balenos as donors, the cost factor will also not be of big concern. In short its a complete win win choice.

Pramod
Hi Pramod,
I am not that technical. If i go with the specs that you mentioned, I have to physically monitor the process(not possible) and find the parts of baleno otherwise the charges will be astronomical.I am planning a 1.3 MPFI translpant first with FFE and K&N filter for now.

I am quoted 65K for the 1.3 MPFI engine transplant which is already way to high, Baleno will be even costlier and hard to source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman View Post
Please ignore my ignorance, but does the Gypsy not use a divorced transfer case? If yes, then why limit yourself to Maruti engines, why not be a daredevil and give it some serious power (assuming the chassis etc can handle it).
Hey Satnam,
According to my priority list:

1)Reliability
2)Be able to be serviced at MASS not a Jugad.
3) Performance
So, i will try to go with stock as much as possible. But Yes, the gypsy's transfer case is divorced and if you are planning just for the city ridewe have lot more powerful options, but if you think of taking it to remote parts of himalaya's its better to keep it stock.


Quote:
Originally Posted by techn0l0gist View Post

the baleno head swap onto the 1.3 L carb gypsy would make a drastic difference in performance - as the 1.3L carb version has a 8V head which is less efficient than the 16V head.
Anybody tried this??? Looks like another option??

Last edited by Amar82 : 29th November 2009 at 01:17.
Amar82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2009, 17:38   #199
BHPian
 
MexXxentric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 248
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amar82 View Post

I am quoted 65K for the 1.3 MPFI engine transplant
for a turn key project?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amar82 View Post
Baleno will be even costlier and hard to source.
ABSOLUTELY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amar82 View Post
According to my priority list:

1)Reliability
2)Be able to be serviced at MASS not a Jugad.
3) Performance
So, i will try to go with stock as much as possible.
That makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by techn0l0gist View Post
i've heard of complete heads with intake manifolds,injectors and sensors being sold for 5k - but i'm yet to come across such a deal , i'm too on the lookout for a 16v head for a good price .
Thats music to many "head hunters" out here in t-bhp. When such an offer was there, how come you did not pick the same?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Since nowadays its easy to find totaled balenos as donors, the cost factor will also not be of big concern.
Pramod
Really?
Where?
help me to outsource Baleno's VSS.( i broke mine)
MexXxentric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2009, 19:56   #200
Senior - BHPian
 
pramodkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gods own country
Posts: 1,971
Thanked: 819 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MexXxentric View Post
Really?
Where?
help me to outsource Baleno's VSS.( i broke mine)

Dude i thought this was coming.

I am going to Delhi in march. I will get you whatever you want. I know a guy how buys totaled maruti cars.

Pramod
pramodkumar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2009, 21:10   #201
BHPian
 
techn0l0gist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ponda, Goa
Posts: 333
Thanked: 27 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Thats music to many "head hunters" out here in t-bhp. When such an offer was there, how come you did not pick the same?
Pramod
I heard that from one scrap dealer - was from a totalled esteem. However last time i tried - no one was ready to sell just the head for a fair price , they insist you buy the whole engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MexXxentric View Post
help me to outsource Baleno's VSS.( i broke mine)
Buy one from a aftermarket spares shop - a reliable one would sell you for much less - don't go to the MGP dealer.

I managed to fix mine with some carb cleaner - maybe you could try that - unless you have really "broken" it into peices

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Anybody tried this??? Looks like another option??
there are a few esteems i know - but they're all twin carb setups - FE increases too along with power
techn0l0gist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2009, 02:59   #202
BHPian
 
Amar82's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ludhiana
Posts: 290
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Attaching Few Pics of the GYpsy while installing Weber Carb and also Free wheeling Hubs have been installed.
Attached Thumbnails
My Ex-Army Gyspy ReBuild-a1.jpg  

My Ex-Army Gyspy ReBuild-a3.jpg  

My Ex-Army Gyspy ReBuild-a2.jpg  

Attached Images
  
Amar82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2009, 14:40   #203
Senior - BHPian
 
vinod_nookala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,737
Thanked: 410 Times
Default

Amar your Gypsy is one of the best make over i have seen! Happy Gypsying!
vinod_nookala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2009, 18:27   #204
Senior - BHPian
 
rakesh_r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PNQ/MUM/PKD
Posts: 1,019
Thanked: 607 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MexXxentric View Post
Really?
Where?
help me to outsource Baleno's VSS.( i broke mine)
Recently i have seen a lot of junk balenos with akbar travels in mumbai.I guess if anyone wants an engine can catch hold of one from their workshop in andheri.
rakesh_r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2009, 05:26   #205
BHPian
 
Amar82's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ludhiana
Posts: 290
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Amar your Gypsy is one of the best make over i have seen! Happy Gypsying!
Thanks Vinod, I was almost ready to sell my Gypsy at one point(was frustrated with the pace of work being done) but then the hardwork and pain i have been through stopped me from selling it. The most difficult was registering army disposal in ludhiana.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakesh_r View Post
Recently i have seen a lot of junk balenos with akbar travels in mumbai.I guess if anyone wants an engine can catch hold of one from their workshop in andheri.
Hi Rakesh,
I am going with stock gypsy 1.3 MPFI engine, baleno engine though more powerful will never beat the reliability of stock setup.

Thanks for the info.

Amar
Amar82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2009, 17:50   #206
Senior - BHPian
 
rakesh_r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PNQ/MUM/PKD
Posts: 1,019
Thanked: 607 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amar82 View Post
Hi Rakesh,
I am going with stock gypsy 1.3 MPFI engine, baleno engine though more powerful will never beat the reliability of stock setup.

Thanks for the info.

Amar
Yep thats one point to be noted..One query from my side,would the 1.6 make the gypsy heavier in the front?
rakesh_r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2009, 12:24   #207
BHPian
 
Amar82's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ludhiana
Posts: 290
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakesh_r View Post
Yep thats one point to be noted..One query from my side,would the 1.6 make the gypsy heavier in the front?
I just inquired about the baleno 1.6L engine swap from Raj Kapoor and the break down is as follows:

1) Sourcing engine and parts 58K-65K.
2) Changing cooling system 10K.
3) Labour and wiring charges 15K.

About the reliabilty he told that it depends upon how well you do the job. Need a feedback from fellow Bhpians about should i go for 1.3L transplant or 1.6L (cost for 1.3L swap is 65K and 1.6L is 90K)


Amar

Last edited by Amar82 : 4th December 2009 at 12:25.
Amar82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2009, 13:48   #208
Senior - BHPian
 
pramodkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gods own country
Posts: 1,971
Thanked: 819 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amar82 View Post
I just inquired about the baleno 1.6L engine swap from Raj Kapoor and the break down is as follows:

1) Sourcing engine and parts 58K-65K.
2) Changing cooling system 10K.
3) Labour and wiring charges 15K.

About the reliabilty he told that it depends upon how well you do the job. Need a feedback from fellow Bhpians about should i go for 1.3L transplant or 1.6L (cost for 1.3L swap is 65K and 1.6L is 90K)


Amar

If you ask me personally, spending extra 25K for those additional horses makes sence if you do offroading, for a daily drive the 1.3 carb king will do great, and trust me even in high altitudes, proofs are the number of breakdowns in the pre MPFI raid days. I am sure you cannot go to Leh during the winters when the air is extreamly lean, so as to your carb gypsy will have breathing problems. Now you need to ask your self a question, why do you need something that do you need that kind of power to do something a normal carb 1.3 is capable of doing? do you need a complete transplant or you just want something which is factory tested and proved to be a work horse.

Pramod
pramodkumar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2009, 15:27   #209
Senior - BHPian
 
harjeev's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,896
Thanked: 256 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amar82 View Post
I just inquired about the baleno 1.6L engine swap from Raj Kapoor and the break down is as follows:

1) Sourcing engine and parts 58K-65K.
2) Changing cooling system 10K.
3) Labour and wiring charges 15K.

About the reliabilty he told that it depends upon how well you do the job. Need a feedback from fellow Bhpians about should i go for 1.3L transplant or 1.6L (cost for 1.3L swap is 65K and 1.6L is 90K)


Amar
Hi Amar
As your Gypsy is with Mandeep you must have spoken to him too!!! What's his advise? I believe that he would give you a balanced and an unbiased suggestion.

Me personally would put my money on a stock 1.3 MPFI and spend the balance of 25k on a bigger better radiator, Air Intake, Free Flow Exhausts, headers, better plugs, performance clutch plates, etc etc. Sky is the limit. I am not saying that all this will come in 25k but atleast it's a start!

Just my novice advise, I am just learning the technical ropes, so please excuse me if i am wrong

Last edited by harjeev : 4th December 2009 at 15:28.
harjeev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2009, 17:15   #210
Team-BHP Support
 
khan_sultan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,631
Thanked: 2,947 Times
Default

I would suggest that you stay Carb only and do NO transplant. Even a 1.3 mpfi transplant will NOT be as reliable as a factory fitted one.

A 1.3 Carb is a VERY capable machine and will serve ALL purposes of trail driving/hill driving/OTR's
khan_sultan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Edmund : My car's Rebuild Maruti 800 Edmund Technical Stuff 505 16th January 2014 13:18
My 'CLASSIC' Rebuild!!! SYJ 4x4 Vehicles 52 28th December 2010 23:05
Gyspy Engine Overhaul / Rebuild jealousdiamond 4x4 Vehicles 13 2nd February 2010 12:23
Xtreme Power's Spoa'd Custom Crawler(Gyspy No.2) xtreme power 4x4 Vehicles 22 4th January 2010 23:17
Turbo Rebuild help ananthkamath Technical Stuff 11 2nd October 2005 10:58


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 21:26.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks