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Old 9th June 2009, 01:05   #61
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Yes did make it interesting. And I hope you getting the info you needed.
See...there you go! Yes I am...



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In that Price bracket I would even put some money on the Major..
No, bolero has a lot more company fitted for the price including reliability, major is fairly behind on lotta aspects.


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Going with your past with your humble little NA Vtec and what you have posted here. I am sure this will interest you?
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...red-beast.html (Highly Modified MM340 - Scorpio Powered Beast)
Thanks for sharing this thread, I hadnt seen it...and trust me im madly bedazzled having a look at that mm340, one bad a$$ ".....", dont know wat to call!!!
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Old 9th June 2009, 02:31   #62
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A Bolero will remain what it is designed for - The rural Indian run on hard paved, brick soled roads, graded tracks and hard, off road tracks in good weather, i.e. there is no mud. Most of rural india can be assessed with this combination.

It is a semi luxury SUV with a bit of refinement essentially an improvement over the Marshal or Max.

I dont think it was designed for serious soft off road surfaces, like sand, snow, loose gravel.

The angle of approach, departure and breakover makes it no rockclimber either.

One major thing is the engine power output. With the XDP3U engine or the DI engine in the 65 to 70 bhp output range the power to weight ratio is nowhere where a 4x4 vehicle desires.

Even the 4x4 version Bolero may service a forest post or a construction site for the top brass but nothing beyond that. It was never designed to cross mountain. Some slush. a bit of sandy tracks, thats about it.

With only 65 bhp power and a weight of 1850 Kg, the P/W ratio is 28.46 Kg / bhp.

Someone compared it to a Toyota 70 series SWB vehicle. Which is an absolute bomb. Ths vehicle called RUBA 3 Capsula in our desert language has a 2FZUE fuel injected 4500 cc, six in line engine with a tuned output of 225 bhp and weighs 1400 kg. P/W ratio 6.2 Kg per BHP. But it is a dangerous unstable vehicle on high Dunes. Its LWB pick up version is better. That with the same engine has an output of 250 bhp, one has to actually lower not raise its rear leaf springs for good dune bashing. Its p/w ratio is 6 Kg / bhp

This I 6 engine has a very flat torque curve through the rpm range, the most important aspect of Dune climbs.

Nissan Patrol, new model, 4.8 litre, V6 - 8.93 Kg / bhp

Toyota Landcruiser V8 4.7 litre engine, 250 BHP - 9 Kg / BHP

Toyota Prado SWB V6 IGRFE Engine 4000 cc -265 bhp - 5.34 Kg / bhp
Toyota Prado, old Landcruiser 90 series, 5VZFE 3400 cc V6 - 7 Kg / bhp

Compared to these big brothers where do we stand.

Jeep Cj3B - 14.67 Kg / BHP
Maruti Gypsy, new 1.3 L - 16.92 Kg / BHP
Maruti Gypsy old 1000 cc - 22 Kg / bhp

Mahindra Scorpio 4x4, 2.6 CRDE - 20.9 Kg / bhp

The most capable offroader in India is still the good old petrol Jeep!
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Old 9th June 2009, 07:46   #63
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What is this kg / bhp? I thought power to weight ratio was expressed in terms of bhp per tonne.
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Old 9th June 2009, 08:05   #64
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Dear all - the Bolero VLX that you refer to here comes equipped with 3.73:1 axle ratio, a CMVR fallout. Now imagine the Bolero VLX with 4.3/4.55 axle ratio plus 2.6 litre engine plus 4 wheel drive plus IFS minus hard top plus wheelbase reduced plus looking different plus plus plus -----.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 9th June 2009, 08:06   #65
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@ Desertfox, we are talking about the CRDe variant of the Bolero which delivers 97PS and has a kerb weight of 1690 Kgs. Hence P/W is 57.4 PS/Tonne.

Obviously this is not much compared to the Gypsy which would have about 92.63 PS/Tonne. But torque is what will alter the game.

@ Behram Sir, care to explain a bit more for a novice like me.

Last edited by MileCruncher : 9th June 2009 at 08:07.
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Old 9th June 2009, 10:16   #66
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Default IFS & Butts

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Dear all - the Bolero VLX that you refer to here comes equipped with 3.73:1 axle ratio, a CMVR fallout. Now imagine the Bolero VLX with 4.3/4.55 axle ratio plus 2.6 litre engine plus 4 wheel drive plus IFS minus hard top plus wheelbase reduced plus looking different plus plus plus -----.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Hello Sir,

The Second you go IFS = RUBBISH (In Totality).

That is the same reason you Scorpio cannot do what the MM's can do.

I can understand CMVR/diff-ratio/crde/BSIII regulations, whats that got to do with Solid Axles.

Maybe the M&M Engineers should join us for some OTRs.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 9th June 2009, 10:48   #67
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Default What to Do to a 4WD BOLERO

1) Remove the plastic Cladding

2) Tyres - 31-10.50-15 to 33-10.50-15

3) Change Diff-Ratio to 4.27 or 4.88 even upto 5.38 (For NGT530)

4) Free-Wheeling Hubs & LSD upfront & Auto-Locker at the back.

5) Change the engine if XD3PU unit change to
1) MDI3200TC + KMT90 + T18
2) MDI3200TC + NGT520 +T18
3) SZ2600/NEF2600 + NGT530+ Borg-Warner

6) Accessorize - Winch & Hi-Lift & GPS & Microwave

7) SPOA (but the OKBJ cannot be fitted with an Hi-Steer Arm) & Traction-Bar

The Bolero has a Dana 44 -19 Spline with MRF SandGrip 7.50X16 GC = 260mm.

Regards,

Arka

PS - Bolero is basically a leaf sprung JEEP with a LWB and new body styling & better interiors & NVH.
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Old 9th June 2009, 11:00   #68
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Microwave


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PS - Bolero is basically a leaf sprung JEEP with a LWB and new body styling & better interiors & NVH.
To all those on the Jeep pictures thread read this.
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Old 9th June 2009, 11:14   #69
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...Maybe the M&M Engineers should join us for some OTRs...
Well said Arka. They are good for 'tarmac' Great Escapes & then chickening out when the going just about starts to gets tough (remember the Munnar OTR). And then they talk as if...
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Old 9th June 2009, 11:44   #70
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - the Bolero VLX that you refer to here comes equipped with 3.73:1 axle ratio, a CMVR fallout. Now imagine the Bolero VLX with 4.3/4.55 axle ratio plus 2.6 litre engine plus 4 wheel drive plus IFS minus hard top plus wheelbase reduced plus looking different plus plus plus -----.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Sir with all due respect to your passion and dedication to all things Jeep,..I read thru the entire thread on your wish list for the MM540 / 550.
I even contributed two pence of my own.

With the above quote on this thread you are again asking us to dream,..a dream which will never come true,..at least in India.
You are basically suggesting an invader 4x4 with CRDE engine, and revamped mechanicals.
Do you think this will happen. Or else why lead us on.

Last edited by Torque-ative : 9th June 2009 at 11:47. Reason: added info
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Old 9th June 2009, 12:04   #71
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The Bolero 4x4 version is still with the old XDP3U engine. Is there any confirmation that the CRDe engine of the VLX Bolero is going to be fitted in 4x4 version or rather that the Bolero VLX sportz will come as 4x4 as well ?
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Old 9th June 2009, 13:33   #72
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It would be doomsday for the Country if a crude UV like Bolero is crowned the best offroader ever! What a pity!
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Old 9th June 2009, 14:07   #73
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It would be doomsday for the Country if a crude UV like Bolero is crowned the best offroader ever! What a pity!
BHP1,
No one crowned Bolero to be the best offroader in india yet! From what i can see people are discussiing various possibilities with Bolero 4wd!Thats it.

Also what does crudeness have to do with being an offroader? CL's and Gypsy's(to some extent) are crude by todays standards, but arent they best off roaders available in the country?

Bolero is crude for you, but that is the most refined 4wd or even an 2wd MUV what money can buy for 6 to 7 lakhs. There has to be reasons for about 5000 people to buy it every month even in 2wd form. As for 4wd Bolero no one has experimented with bolero big time as yet. Hence passing a judgement on it would be baseless.

We had Srinivas's Armada with Di engine (58 hp and 16kgm @1500 rpm torque) in palar last year. It did what others did and did it with flying colours! Hence i dont term bolero even in stock form to be a bad offroader as some suggest here, if not the best!
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Old 9th June 2009, 14:19   #74
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Hello Sir,

The Second you go IFS = RUBBISH (In Totality).

That is the same reason you Scorpio cannot do what the MM's can do.

I can understand CMVR/diff-ratio/crde/BSIII regulations, whats that got to do with Solid Axles.

Maybe the M&M Engineers should join us for some OTRs.

Regards,

Arka
I agree with you Arka. For pure offroading IFS is useless! May be thats why vehicles like Landcruiser 80, Defender, Jeep and G wagen still have live axle coil sprung suspension. They all have mordenised keeping their offroad DNA intact. M&M should follow the same.

Behram sir- Rest all is fine, but please chuck IFS if possible

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 9th June 2009 at 14:20.
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Old 9th June 2009, 15:15   #75
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Vinod:

Is the rear leafspring set up different for Bolero 4 Door and the Bolero Invader?
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