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Old 10th June 2009, 19:02   #91
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Guys,
IMHO a Bolero VLX 4wd (on which the very thread is based) will never be made due to pricing and demand issues. As i said in my earlier post a Bolero Vlx if offered will touch 9 lakhs on road which is expensive and put in 1.5 lakh more you have Scorpio 4wd or even a Safari 4wd. Most important there is absolutely no demand!! Then why will they make it?

As far as Bolero XD3p and Di turbo is concerned i would say enthusiasts do your bit to buy it. May not be available in future. 4wd market is shrinking!!!
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Old 10th June 2009, 19:03   #92
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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Which jeep? A 20 yrs old/older piece of History!!! Offcourse its comfortable than a bullock cart too!
Arn't we living in the 21st Century A.D.!

@MC, I already said, its for hauling people.


@Spitfire, the eternal Bolero fan!! Or thy shall defend their own vehicle to death, even if its crap!

Though Bolero did not drive over my feet, too slow to be missed getting over but it does seem to have gotten to your head!
hey hey, looks like a classic case of sour grapes, hey if you cant afford one then try a second hand vehicle mate.
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Old 11th June 2009, 09:12   #93
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Guys, if we are discissing vehicles here then lets keep it to the vehicles and not take it personally.

Every one has their own preferances and it may not be a great idea to force your opinion on others or make them believe that their opinion is in wrong.

Moving on - I have a Gypsy and I like the bolero as well. Actually to be honest I like all 4x4 vehicles. You can draw a dotted line between core offroaders and SUVs. neither can replace the other. Though this line is crossed due to pricing but again someone may want to spend lot more on a basic offroader than on a SUV. But just for that MM is not going to start production of the VLX bolero in 4x4 I think. It would be great if they did, that way I could but a second hand one couple of years down the line.

cheers
Ankit
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Old 11th June 2009, 12:06   #94
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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
VFM!! We are talking "offroad", its people like you who give negative feedback to MM not to improve.....................
..... As already said, Bolero Crde does not come with 4x4 option & costs near Scorpio, which makes it a case for a die hard Bolero fan like you only!



Hey MC, these are sheep in Wolf's clothing, let them graze!
Well the feedback M&M and others have it is there is no demand for intermediary 4x4. Bolero VLX 4x4 will never be made as it is already in Scorpio Territory and shares virtues of scorpio with a different body.

Now discussing about the 4x4 ability of a stock bolero with Di turbo engine or even XD 3p engine, i still think it is a good 4x4 which enthusiasts like us must try our hands on!

Remember stories about these very old precious 4x4 mahindra jeeps? It was thought they were underpowered, they fall apart at every instance and cannot even climb a mole hill.

But see now, Classic & CJ340 with 62 BHP and 12 kgm torque ( these figures are power ratings of a small car today) they are known to be the best in business as far as offroading is concerned. Even foreign magazines never had two thoughts about these models offroadability!

MM540 was never in offroading rader until now. It was thought that 62 bhp engine is underpowered for off roading and the length was too long. But look at the scenario today. More & more MM540's are becoming a part of offroading scnario

Even our entusiasts market hasnt matured for a long wheel base off roader A 2680mm wheel base is excellent for balance in tough offoad conditions. However as the time goes you will see modifications in terms of larger tyres, lower diff ratios to get the best out of them. People prefer large 7.50 tyres on 540 just to offset that extra length and improve breakover angle. In future as the market matures you will see more secondhand safari's Scorpio's Bolero's in offroading scene. Take my word for it!
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Old 11th June 2009, 12:17   #95
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BHP1 & Wolf, keep the discussion civil. You have been long enough on the forum to know our rules. - Support Team
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Old 11th June 2009, 17:18   #96
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Oh my apologies if I sounded offensive!!! I reframe my sentence below again...

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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Atleast that is what the title suggest! If possibilities are to be discussed, better change the heading to "wishlist for a Bolero", on the same terms as "wishlist for MM550" & then wait for eternity for MM to act!

Bolero is designed to be a people mover & so the sales, few buy it for pure offroading. I would not call Gypsy crude but basic & that's what we love in offroaders. Whereas, Bolero is plain & simple crude, an ergonomic disaster & a complete slouch.
Dear sir, why would you call a bolero crude and ergonomic disaster? The gypsy you are comparing it with is not only more cruder but its got a reputation of being the spine splitter when it comes to ride quality. Further more, jypsy doesnt even have ergonomics to be compared with a Bolero. Could you kindly clarify as to which how you claim a jypsy to be more refined and ergonomically better than a bolero pls? Touching upon a Bolero being a slouch, I request you to drive the new crde and imagine a 4x4 on it to further this dialog. Just to add a quick bit, the bolero crde had more than 40% more power and 120% more torque in comparison to jypsy...kindly take note of that.

Eagerly awaiting your valuable inputs.

Also, the current discussion is in the lines of Boleros offroading capability and stand, not luxury really.

Rgds,
The Wolf

Last edited by The Wolf : 11th June 2009 at 17:19.
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Old 11th June 2009, 20:30   #97
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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Which jeep? A 20 yrs old/older piece of History!!! Offcourse its comfortable than a bullock cart too!
Arn't we living in the 21st Century A.D.!

@MC, I already said, its for hauling people.


@Spitfire, the eternal Bolero fan!! Or thy shall defend their own vehicle to death, even if its crap!

Though Bolero did not drive over my feet, too slow to be missed getting over but it does seem to have gotten to your head!
With due respect BHP1,since you have made fun of many true and ardent Jeep fans in this forum in a manner that can be even termed as uncivil, may I ask you whether you have ever driven a Bolero, DI or XD3P or CRDI?
If you have and still you find it uninspiring, then you don't belong to this forums for Jeeps and 4x4s. If you want an ergonomic marvel, go for the camry or Superb.If you want a flying machine go for the Skoda RS or Accord.
BUT, if you are a lover of those rugged and reliable machines full of character, that are popularly known as JEEPS, buy Bolero 4x4 or an MM540.
And remember, if "a 20 year old piece of history" as you put it, is selling more than it's modern competetors, there will be some reason behind it for sure , isn't it? They say that a page of history is worth a volume of logic....
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Old 11th June 2009, 20:45   #98
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Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
Oh my apologies if I sounded offensive!!! I reframe my sentence below again...



Dear sir, why would you call a bolero crude and ergonomic disaster? The gypsy you are comparing it with is not only more cruder but its got a reputation of being the spine splitter when it comes to ride quality. Further more, jypsy doesnt even have ergonomics to be compared with a Bolero. Could you kindly clarify as to which how you claim a jypsy to be more refined and ergonomically better than a bolero pls? Touching upon a Bolero being a slouch, I request you to drive the new crde and imagine a 4x4 on it to further this dialog. Just to add a quick bit, the bolero crde had more than 40% more power and 120% more torque in comparison to jypsy...kindly take note of that.

Eagerly awaiting your valuable inputs.

Also, the current discussion is in the lines of Boleros offroading capability and stand, not luxury really.

Rgds,
The Wolf
Wolf,Vinod, Spitfire, true knights standing for the cause of the beloved JEEP Bolero.It is a joy to know that there are so many diehard fans of the Bolero in this Forum.Cheers mates!
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Old 11th June 2009, 21:30   #99
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
I am no fanboy but believe in VFM(hard earned money) and Bolero when bought in 2004, it was VFM redefined.
So one did run over your toes then.. thats what i was looking for. Does it still hurt? Looking at your posts above it does
VFM!! What does VFM got to do with offroading, we are discussing offroading pal!

Learn to point out flaws in the vehicle you own, going gaga about Bolero doesn't reflect good on ones personality. For God's sakes try out some modern vehicle apart from Classic/Bolero, to come to terms with modern times.

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Originally Posted by whitemm550 View Post
hey hey, looks like a classic case of sour grapes
"Sour"! They better be, who wants an old slouch anyways!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Well the feedback M&M and others have it is there is no demand for intermediary 4x4. Bolero VLX 4x4 will never be made as it is already in Scorpio Territory and shares virtues of scorpio with a different body.
That's the whole point, why are we stuck on VLX, it does not belong to 4x4 section!

Why not an Invader for offroading needs, its got the same engine as the Bolero! It has the same credentials, but people are vocal about its looks & lack of creature comforts, then why not listen to shortcomings about Bolero!
Grow up people, every vehicle comes with downsides & Bolero has loads of them, why are you afraid to share some!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
Dear sir, why would you call a bolero crude and ergonomic disaster? The gypsy you are comparing it with is not only more cruder but its got a reputation of being the spine splitter when it comes to ride quality. Further more, jypsy doesnt even have ergonomics to be compared with a Bolero. Could you kindly clarify as to which how you claim a jypsy to be more refined and ergonomically better than a bolero pls? Touching upon a Bolero being a slouch, I request you to drive the new crde and imagine a 4x4 on it to further this dialog. Just to add a quick bit, the bolero crde had more than 40% more power and 120% more torque in comparison to jypsy...kindly take note of that.
Gypsy is far more user friendly than a Bolero, ride is bad but its an offroader!
Again the VLX we are talking about doesn't come in 4x4 guise, so why all the sweat!
Besides, a Gypsy can easily show clean pair of heels to the VLX too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley Nair View Post
With due respect BHP1,since you have made fun of many true and ardent Jeep fans in this forum in a manner that can be even termed as uncivil, may I ask you whether you have ever driven a Bolero, DI or XD3P or CRDI?
If you have and still you find it uninspiring, then you don't belong to this forums for Jeeps and 4x4s. If you want an ergonomic marvel, go for the camry or Superb.If you want a flying machine go for the Skoda RS or Accord.
And remember, if "a 20 year old piece of history" as you put it, is selling more than it's modern competitors, there will be some reason behind it for sure , isn't it? They say that a page of history is worth a volume of logic....
I've not made fun of anyone, rather just pointed out shortcomings of Bolero. I've driven Bolero countless no. of times & witnessed its numerous weaknesses. Its a cheap people hauler, worth for the rural folk who would be packing in 7-10 most of the time & driving on bad roads.
Do you consider Bolero to be India's numero uno effort towards Offroaders? If yes, you are highly mistaken & overrating a vehicle by a huge margin.
I can see Bolero as a people hauler with some offroad capability & poor engine, bodyshell, interiors, ergonomics, etc but never the less a VFM buy for the ones who are interested.
Selling in numbers does not signify being the best! Its selling because its fulfilling aspirations of rural folf in carrying people.
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Old 11th June 2009, 22:22   #100
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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Selling in numbers does not signify being the best! Its selling because its fulfilling aspirations of rural folf in carrying people.
. I think we are comparing apples and oranges here , OE Bolero 4X4 or OE Gypsy Mpfi or OE Gurka should be in comparison not the future may be enhancements.

Gurka sales is even less but we cannot say its a bad offroader then gypsy or mahindra.
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Old 12th June 2009, 08:00   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
VFM!! What does VFM got to do with offroading, we are discussing offroading pal!
Exactly my point buddy. Now where did your ergonomics and creature comfort come from in the same discussion? Gypsy and Bolero comparison ot that.

Quote:
Learn to point out flaws in the vehicle you own, going gaga about Bolero doesn't reflect good on ones personality.
GA GA?? LOL. Going on about a vehicle being crude, ergonomic disaster and only meant for carying people doesnt reflect too good on your knowledge does it?

Please try and remember there are variants in the Bolero from a 7 seater to a 10 seater.

Quote:
For God's sakes try out some modern vehicle apart from Classic/Bolero, to come to terms with modern times.
I like to work on my machines the so called make you a bakra modern vehicles do not let me do that. The sole reason why i still drive around in a 04 Bolero.

Example changed the accelerator cable on the Bolero last weekend all by myself.

One question buddy bhp1: When was the last time you drove a 4x4 Bolero offroad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley Nair View Post
Wolf,Vinod, Spitfire, true knights standing for the cause of the beloved JEEP Bolero.It is a joy to know that there are so many diehard fans of the Bolero in this Forum.Cheers mates!
Well to tell you the truth, if we get better options at the same price and peace of mind we would move to that. Presently there is no alternative in that price bracket.

Last edited by Spitfire : 12th June 2009 at 08:02.
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Old 12th June 2009, 10:39   #102
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Well to tell you the truth, if we get better options at the same price and peace of mind we would move to that. Presently there is no alternative in that price bracket.
^ Amen to that. I did drive the Bolero a few times off road. I had my Gypsy then.
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Old 12th June 2009, 11:22   #103
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OT: All you Bolero / Jeep Guru's request some help here
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post1341746

Thanks in advance.
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Old 12th June 2009, 11:26   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
VFM!! What does VFM got to do with offroading, we are discussing offroading pal!

Learn to point out flaws in the vehicle you own, going gaga about Bolero doesn't reflect good on ones personality. For God's sakes try out some modern vehicle apart from Classic/Bolero, to come to terms with modern times.

Why not an Invader for offroading needs, its got the same engine as the Bolero! It has the same credentials, but people are vocal about its looks & lack of creature comforts, then why not listen to shortcomings about Bolero!
Grow up people, every vehicle comes with downsides & Bolero has loads of them, why are you afraid to share some!


I've not made fun of anyone, rather just pointed out shortcomings of Bolero. I've driven Bolero countless no. of times & witnessed its numerous weaknesses. Its a cheap people hauler, worth for the rural folk who would be packing in 7-10 most of the time & driving on bad roads.
Do you consider Bolero to be India's numero uno effort towards Offroaders? If yes, you are highly mistaken & overrating a vehicle by a huge margin.
I can see Bolero as a people hauler with some offroad capability & poor engine, bodyshell, interiors, ergonomics, etc but never the less a VFM buy for the ones who are interested.
Selling in numbers does not signify being the best! Its selling because its fulfilling aspirations of rural folf in carrying people.
Hi BHP1,

Please elaborate WHY the Bolero is such a bad off-roader.

No one is denying it being a rural people carrier.

if the body shell was cheap (poor quality) it wouldn't have lasted as a people carrier.

Some technical gyan will go a long way.

Also educate us about the modern amenities, which are missing in the BOLERO.

Regards,

Arka

PS - The POOR MDI3200TC has a life expectancy of 1.5L to 3.0L kms in Rural India
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Old 12th June 2009, 12:11   #105
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Cool

I have my views here:

1. Bolero is good compare to other offroaders(do we have any ?) available today

2. An offroader should comes with VFM, tell me which one is matching to this category

3. Offroading itself a costly affair and lots of damages expected due course. Friends tell me other than bolero if I have to choose Scropio, Safari, Pajero and any other vehicle which one falls minimum parts and service cost ? I'm leaving Gypsy here, as it is already age old, and some of our friends are already started talking about 21st AD. Remember to buy offroader for purposeful offroading not for just buying a AWD or 4WD to park it into your garage and say you have got a all terrain vehicle. If you intend to take it offroad expect the damages and ofcourse one need to repair it to keep it fit.

4. Customizable, if not I mentioned about our individual garages but the Mahindra itself provides options

5. No hi-fi means, no trouble during offroad. Oh yeah! that is exactly what I want.

6. Why can't be my offroader help me by assisting me as people mover while not doing offroader ? I bet it is a greater influence for Bolero, I'm sure none other than Bolero can work on this point.


Given an option, my vote as a multipurpose vehicle will always point to Bolero. To my surprise driving the bolero is much easier compare to half steering Safari to me. What do you say ?

Last edited by trammway : 12th June 2009 at 12:13.
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