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Old 12th June 2009, 12:24   #106
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Originally Posted by trammway View Post
I have my views here:

1. Bolero is good compare to other offroaders(do we have any ?) available today

2. An offroader should comes with VFM, tell me which one is matching to this category

3. Offroading itself a costly affair and lots of damages expected due course. Friends tell me other than bolero if I have to choose Scropio, Safari, Pajero and any other vehicle which one falls minimum parts and service cost ? I'm leaving Gypsy here, as it is already age old, and some of our friends are already started talking about 21st AD. Remember to buy offroader for purposeful offroading not for just buying a AWD or 4WD to park it into your garage and say you have got a all terrain vehicle. If you intend to take it offroad expect the damages and ofcourse one need to repair it to keep it fit.

4. Customizable, if not I mentioned about our individual garages but the Mahindra itself provides options

5. No hi-fi means, no trouble during offroad. Oh yeah! that is exactly what I want.

6. Why can't be my offroader help me by assisting me as people mover while not doing offroader ? I bet it is a greater influence for Bolero, I'm sure none other than Bolero can work on this point.


Given an option, my vote as a multipurpose vehicle will always point to Bolero. To my surprise driving the bolero is much easier compare to half steering Safari to me. What do you say ?
I agree to all the points above and especially the one in bold above and also include most sedans as well.
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Old 12th June 2009, 12:48   #107
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Originally Posted by trammway View Post
I have my views here:

1. Bolero is good compare to other offroaders(do we have any ?) available today
But not the best as the heading of the thread says.

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Originally Posted by trammway View Post
I have my views here:
2. An offroader should comes with VFM, tell me which one is matching to this category
VFM depends on personal preferences . For a true offroader he won't even care about comforts like A.C , P.S and for him VFM is a vehicle that can never let him down while on OTR.

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Originally Posted by trammway View Post
3. Offroading itself a costly affair and lots of damages expected due course. Friends tell me other than bolero if I have to choose Scropio, Safari, Pajero and any other vehicle which one falls minimum parts and service cost ? I'm leaving Gypsy here, as it is already age old, and some of our friends are already started talking about 21st AD. Remember to buy offroader for purposeful offroading not for just buying a AWD or 4WD to park it into your garage and say you have got a all terrain vehicle. If you intend to take it offroad expect the damages and ofcourse one need to repair it to keep it fit.
The OE bolero 4X4 when taken offroad will be more prone to damage as because of G.C , even though parts are much cheaper but you will have to be in workshop often as compared other offroad vehicle with higher G.C.

Well, when it comes to offroading Gypsy is way ahead of the game as compared to bolero even if its an old vehicle. I think the discussion is about offroading not about VFM " Will bolero be best offroader ever".

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Originally Posted by trammway View Post
4. Customizable, if not I mentioned about our individual garages but the Mahindra itself provides options
Mahindra only provides bling bling stuff.

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Originally Posted by trammway View Post
6. Why can't be my offroader help me by assisting me as people mover while not doing offroader ? I bet it is a greater influence for Bolero, I'm sure none other than Bolero can work on this point.
Thats what its meant for, not for hardcore offroading
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Old 12th June 2009, 15:08   #108
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Well, well finally looks like its all boiling down to ground clearance- the only defying factor, which in my mind is extremely easy to over come, arka, vinod, Amar, spitfire, discoverwild pls add your know thoughts on minimalistic mods to overcome this drawback.

It would be great to hear from bolero owners who have tried some real offroading too...that would be like hearing from the horses mouth directly!!!

Last edited by The Wolf : 12th June 2009 at 15:17.
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Old 12th June 2009, 15:21   #109
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Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
Well, well finally looks like its all boiling down to ground clearance- the only defying factor, which in my mind is extremely easy to over come, arka, vinod, Amar, spitfire, discoverwild pls add your know thoughts on minimalistic mods to overcome this drawback.

It would be great to hear from bolero owners who have tried some real offroading...that would be like hearing from the horses mouth directly!!!
Well the Bolero uses the DANA 44.

with a 28" Tyre (6.00x16) = 8.00" i.e 203mm

with 31" Tyres (7.50X16) = 8.00 + (3"/2) = 9.5" = 241mm

with 33" Tyres (33-12.50-15) = 8.00 + (5"/2) = 10.5" = 266mm

Regards,

Arka
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Old 12th June 2009, 15:34   #110
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I've driven Bolero countless no. of times & witnessed its numerous weaknesses. Its a cheap people hauler, worth for the rural folk who would be packing in 7-10 most of the time & driving on bad roads.

I can see Bolero as a people hauler with some offroad capability & poor engine, bodyshell, interiors, ergonomics, etc but never the less a VFM buy for the ones who are interested.
WOW. I just qualified myself as Rural Folk!

I drive a DI-Turbo with a rural bullock cart 63bhp engine. I've driven 25000km till now and i've never had a SINGLE problem. That's peace of mind. Touchwood.

I didn't buy it for off-roading. I could afford only that. But I AM GLAD i did. With the kind of "roads" those IDIOTS make with my tax money, i needed a Bolero. So, if you think Bolero is not for "metropolitan" roads like in Bangalore, think again.

BTW, nobody here said Bolero is the BEST off-roader. People here are too level-headed to say that. I've my own list of design flaws in Bolero. Everybody has.

Also, i'm unable to understand the point you're trying to make. You say Bolero is not the best off-roader. Everybody else agrees Bolero is not the best off-roader. So, what's this fight about?

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Old 12th June 2009, 21:17   #111
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[Its a cheap people hauler, worth for the rural folk who would be packing in 7-10 most of the time & driving on bad roads.
Do you consider Bolero to be India's numero uno effort towards Offroaders? If yes, you are highly mistaken & overrating a vehicle by a huge margin.
I can see Bolero as a people hauler with some offroad capability & poor engine, bodyshell, interiors, ergonomics, etc but never the less a VFM buy for the ones who are interested.
Selling in numbers does not signify being the best! Its selling because its fulfilling aspirations of rural folf in carrying people.
[/quote]
Sir, I never consider or considered Bolero to be India's numero uno effort.I just believe out of experience that Bolero is a very rugged, comely and capable vehicle fit for some extent of off roading.But can YOU kindly point out the vehicle which you consider the numero uno please? The Tata Safari,may be! I never thiought it to be true blue offroader-that rank may belong to a SWB Jeep, Land rover Defender or Uunimog or a Jonga.But from your words, what you are doing is only mud slinging without assigning any cogent reasons.

And the folks you dismiss as"rural" are the lot of people who are the best judges of these kind of vehicles-for they use them in REAL LIFE situations regularly and accept or reject them.In other words it is what we say tried and tested.
Selling in numbers won't signify being the best but it do signify that the majority of Indian folks are not of your opinion about the Bolero! and please know that the majority of Boleros are sold and used in the cities in India(check sales statistics if you please).

P.S: Do you consider the CRDI 2.5 engine also as a poor and outdated engine? If yes, do pardon my ignorance!

Last edited by Ashley Nair : 12th June 2009 at 21:19.
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Old 12th June 2009, 22:47   #112
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Well the Bolero uses the DANA 44.

with a 28" Tyre (6.00x16) = 8.00" i.e 203mm

with 31" Tyres (7.50X16) = 8.00 + (3"/2) = 9.5" = 241mm

with 33" Tyres (33-12.50-15) = 8.00 + (5"/2) = 10.5" = 266mm

Regards,

Arka
Hi Arka,
I know you are very technical about this offroading business, can you punch in some numners about the ~cost of suspension lift , tyre upgrade and more powerful engine(right now crde is only in 4x2 version) for bolero.
Just curious to know what would be the total cost of the vehicle with all the offroad upgrades.

Regards
Amar
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Old 13th June 2009, 02:28   #113
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Now where did your ergonomics and creature comfort come from in the same discussion?

I like to work on my machines the so called make you a bakra modern vehicles do not let me do that. The sole reason why i still drive around in a 04 Bolero
Don't jeepers deserve proper ergonomics, they only aid in driving/experience.
I would highly recommend you to try out some modern vehicles, to get a grasp of things.

Your lack of knowhow/knowledge to work on modern machines, doesn't make Bolero a champion!
Again try out modern vehicles, they have far less breakdowns/repairs.

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Originally Posted by Torqy View Post
WOW. I just qualified myself as Rural Folk!
I didn't buy it for off-roading. I could afford only that. But I AM GLAD i did. With the kind of "roads" those IDIOTS make with my tax money, i needed a Bolero. So, if you think Bolero is not for "metropolitan" roads like in Bangalore, think again.

Also, i'm unable to understand the point you're trying to make. You say Bolero is not the best off-roader. Everybody else agrees Bolero is not the best off-roader. So, what's this fight about?
Well, it finds some favor in semi urban areas too!
I already said, it suits the needs of plenty, 4x4 can do some amount of offroading.

That's what Im saying, its not the best offroader & fanboys are pouncing!

I guess for pure offroading needs, a 4x4 Invader could be a better preposition, it has shorter wheel base, smaller turning radius, lesser weight.

The present Bolero's engine(DI) is an archaic unit, its too low on power & there's no substitute for power! All important torque is also not very high.

I can sense the plight of offroader community in India, they are not asking for more. Whereas, look at the ever expanding car market, consumers are asking for every bit of features/new tech.
Also shows the closed mindsets of offroading enthusiasts thus not forcing companies to bring in new products or improve older ones.

Point out the shortcomings, let the companies witness the "want". Going all gaga over something as trivial as a Bolero would hamper its improvemt only, like has been the case ever since.
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Old 13th June 2009, 07:45   #114
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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Also shows the closed mindsets of offroading enthusiasts thus not forcing companies to bring in new products or improve older ones.
Well, I am ready to open my mind and force the companies to give better products. I am sure other offroaders are willing too. Please tell us how, show us the way.

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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Point out the shortcomings, let the companies witness the "want". Going all gaga over something as trivial as a Bolero would hamper its improvemt only, like has been the case ever since.
Trust me, we have been screaming from the roof tops in both Jeep Thrills and Team-BHP, done all the pointing out. We have reached out to the top honchos of Mahindra many times, but the miniscule size of offroading populace of India doesn't make a business case for them. So what is the next move?
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Old 13th June 2009, 09:33   #115
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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Don't jeepers deserve proper ergonomics, they only aid in driving/experience.
Please define ergonomics in an offroad situation.

Your sentence above tells me you know nothing about off-roading.

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I would highly recommend you to try out some modern vehicles, to get a grasp of things.
Which one at the price of a Bolero? Please do not avoid this question. Please see that there is an AC, PS for your ergonomics bit about offroaders.

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Your lack of knowhow/knowledge to work on modern machines, doesn't make Bolero a champion!
You still dont understand the basics of offroading in India, do you??

Offroading is not a sport in India where you can call the Authorised Service Station and they will come in their fancy pickup vans and pull you out from the nearest forest or off a hill.

If it breaks down you should need to know how to mend it. So Bolero has a +ve there.


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Again try out modern vehicles, they have far less breakdowns/repairs.
Which modern offroader available in India at the price of the Bolero are you talking about?

Please please let me know.
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Old 13th June 2009, 11:23   #116
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A bolero is the perfect compromise for reasonable on road performance, and reasonable off road performance. Coupled with a gutsy go anywhere engine, an easy to mend body shell, and reasonable service support anywhere in India - this is a fantastic compromise for someone who wants one car for two purposes (never mind that it does not perform both these activities as well as a specialist vehicle).

Trying to make someone understand the merits of your discussion only works if that particular person is open enough to see the merits. Else, this discussion is just great non-technical fodder for the rest of us buffaloes who have plenty of time to while away in front of a computer.

Maybe we should have a rule that ONLY current owners of a particular vehicle are allowed to discuss that vehicle. That way, written discussions will be better understood - between owners - and there is no question of accusing the other of not driving the car in question enough.
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Old 13th June 2009, 20:05   #117
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Well, I am ready to open my mind and force the companies to give better products. I am sure other offroaders are willing too. Please tell us how, show us the way.
Trust me, we have been screaming from the roof tops in both Jeep Thrills and Team-BHP, done all the pointing out. We have reached out to the top honchos of Mahindra many times, but the miniscule size of offroading populace of India doesn't make a business case for them. So what is the next move?
Well. this is the first post in this thread that affirms offroaders will to have better/superior vehicles.
Whatever the market size, corporate honchos should know that the current products they are providing are nothing more than crap.
If they are made to read threads in which vehicles like Bolero are made unsung heroes, how can we wish for them to improve!
Point the shortcomings in bold, something on the terms of Skoda bashing thread. Why not?? & see the change occurring in no time!


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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Please define ergonomics in an offroad situation.
Your sentence above tells me you know nothing about off-roading.
Which one at the price of a Bolero? Please do not avoid this question. Please see that there is an AC, PS for your ergonomics bit about offroaders.
You still dont understand the basics of offroading in India, do you??

Offroading is not a sport in India where you can call the Authorised Service Station and they will come in their fancy pickup vans and pull you out from the nearest forest or off a hill.

If it breaks down you should need to know how to mend it. So Bolero has a +ve there.
Which modern offroader available in India at the price of the Bolero are you talking about?
Ergonomics are the basic placement of objects in a vehicle be it an offroader or a race car. Its the placement of steering, gear lever, dash, etc. All these things aid a driver to focus more on driving while everything falls easily to hand & comfort is not lost.

Majburi ka naam ...........(Bolero)! That should not be the case.

If you are not interested in ergonomics, why do you care about A.C./P.S. ?? Why not get a barebone Invader or a Gypsy??

Do you know what offroading is?? Its a sport for the moneyed, an expensive sport. Why VFM should be a criteria of selecting the best?

That's the case everywhere, many vehicles break down on National highways & there's no help. Modern vehicles are more trustworthy & breakdowns are far less.

What you need is a UV/MUV to ferry people not an offroader, try Xylo/Innova/Scorpio instead, with them also you will get a sense of where the things have moved while you clung to your Bolero!
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Old 13th June 2009, 21:33   #118
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That's the case everywhere, many vehicles break down on National highways & there's no help. Modern vehicles are more trustworthy & breakdowns are far less.

What you need is a UV/MUV to ferry people not an offroader, try Xylo/Innova/Scorpio instead, with them also you will get a sense of where the things have moved while you clung to your Bolero!

Go the pages around here and find out the number of problems that modern vehicles give us, with no way to rectify it ourselves. Car makers are ensuring that buyers remain their slaves forever. Ex: The Ford Ikon and even the Fiesta in some cases. So, please do some reading.

Second - Try taking the Xylo / Innova / Scorpio off-road. Then when it breaks down, you will need some of the lesser Gods (for you, Bolero, MM550, CL340 etc) to get it back on the road.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 14th June 2009 at 08:07. Reason: cleanup
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Old 13th June 2009, 23:59   #119
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...The Bolero/ Invader is a half decent off-roader and if we get something better for even 25% more, we would go for it.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 14th June 2009 at 08:06. Reason: cleaning up
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Old 28th June 2009, 10:23   #120
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I was thinking of replying here, but then have corrected myself, after checking out people's response. Over here even the top people are not ready to open their mind, and are trying to prove the best automobile engineers which any one employs as useless. Automobiles companies operate on two things which are interrelated Usually "Profit and Demand". Demand is for those vehicles which work.

My off-roading skills and experience are limited but I have understood one thing - all vehicles are different. You cannot drive Gurkha like a Jeep and many times it failed because I was getting instructions on how to drive a Jeep. I hope the people here understand this thing while comparing vehicles.

I guess gods here would even make a M800 best off-roader, plonk 4wd set, diff locks, 35" wheels, toyota engine and voila! So why not Bolero!

Last edited by rhandle : 28th June 2009 at 10:26.
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