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Old 22nd February 2010, 10:19   #121
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Thumbs up Congrats on the Scorpio 4X4!

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Took delivery of my Scorpio 4WD last Friday in Kottayam ...
Congratulations, 4x4addict !


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...Will post an ownership report after I have clocked some miles.
We will excuse you for delaying the initial ownership report, but we demand to see some pics ASAP , so please put up some pics in this thread itself, before you start the ownership thread.

Which colour it is ?
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Old 22nd February 2010, 10:20   #122
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congrats 4x4addict! i think you should start your own thread.
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Old 25th February 2010, 11:54   #123
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Thanks guys. I will be putting up a separate ownership report thread shortly.

Just wanted to highlight two differences between the 2WD and 4WD which is not given in the brochure but in the manual.

1) Turning radius is 11.4 meters for 4WD and 11.2 meters for 2WD. Hence slightly larger turning radius.

2) Gradability is 30 degrees for 4WD vs 15 degrees for 2WD. Hence 4x4 can climb a much more steeper slope.

3) Weight is about 100 kgs more. Front diff is also Dana 44 unlike Dana 35 on the Safari.
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Old 25th February 2010, 12:28   #124
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whats the difference between Dana 44 & Dana 35?
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Old 25th February 2010, 12:33   #125
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Dana 35 is weaker. So if you put bigger tires(eg 18"-20" rims), the axle may break, esp with high load under 4 Low ratio.
Normally Dana 35 is used only in SUVs(soft roaders) and that too in front axle.
Rear axle is the stronger Dana 44 in most of the soft roaders
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Old 25th February 2010, 12:36   #126
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thanks tanveer. so maybe that means the scorpio can take more abuse. wish mine was a 4WD...
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Old 25th February 2010, 12:59   #127
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thanks tanveer. so maybe that means the scorpio can take more abuse. wish mine was a 4WD...
Well, the front axle of the Scorpio can take more load/abuse or bigger tires, but not necessarily the rest of the Scorpio itself
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Old 25th February 2010, 13:19   #128
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thanks tanveer. so maybe that means the scorpio can take more abuse. wish mine was a 4WD...
Theoratically, a 4WD scorpio front axle is stronger, but practically no difference if you are running 16" rims
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Well, the front axle of the Scorpio can take more load/abuse or bigger tires, but not necessarily the rest of the Scorpio itself
Exactlly, on stock tires even a dana 35 will be more than sufficient, and the weakest link in the chain(clutch etc.,) will give up before the axle.
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Old 25th February 2010, 13:57   #129
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Default IFS Live Axle

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Theoratically, a 4WD scorpio front axle is stronger, but practically no difference if you are running 16" rims

Exactly, on stock tires even a dana 35 will be more than sufficient, and the weakest link in the chain(clutch etc.,) will give up before the axle.
Hi TSK,

Not only theoretically, but even practically the Scorpio 4WD is better built than the Tata 4WDs.

Because it uses
i) Heavier/Thicker Differential Tubes
ii) Thicker axles i.e bigger UJs and CV Joints
iii) Bigger/Stronger Crown & Pinion

The Weakest Link in the Chain are (IFS Live Axle)

1) IFS Half-Axle Universal Joints

2) Knuckle/Hub CV Joints.

What has the clutch got to do in this case? Please Explain.

Also the Rim size does not make any difference, it is the over all diameter of the Tyre and its corresponding weight.

Take the Maxxis 31-11.50-15 vs 31-11.50-16 though the 16" Rim maybe heavier, the 15" Rim Tyre will need more rubber to get the Equivalent Diameter, so the the 15" equivalent can be heavier and the worst part is as the tyre wears out, it looses rubber, but not in a uniform manner, thereby causing a host of allied problems.

In Short Lesser Rubber for the same height.

This is one of the main reasons for 16/16.5/17/18" Wheel Discs/Rims 16" being the most popular of the lot

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by ex670c : 25th February 2010 at 14:04.
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Old 25th February 2010, 13:59   #130
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Apparently the 4WD system got stuck for these two vehicles.

....

This is precisely why I hate electric transfer cases. Unfortunately with the Scorpio/Safari there is no choice. Thankfully the Thar is coming with a mechanical transfer case.
4x4 congrads on the Scorp. How about some pics now?

As for the electronic TC, you are right that the Bangalore mad scorp twins had TC issues in Coorg where it did not engage. It did not have anything to do with the water. Just that the electronic TC is rubbish. (Yes, Thank God, the Thar is coming with the manual TC)

However there is a choice on the TC.

These twins now sport Manual TCs. Some cut and paste job was involved. Contact the Blr offroading big wigs for more on that, if you want further info.

The Scorp twins did pretty well here. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...-2010-a-4.html (Not so Live Report: Bangalore Annual OTR, Avalakondu 24-25 Jan 2010!)

I saw them in action. No TC issues, they did the water fording and all that..
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Old 25th February 2010, 14:03   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi TSK,

Not only theoretically, but even practically the Scorpio 4WD is better built than the Safari 4WD.

Because it uses
i) Heavier/Thicker Differential Tubes
ii) Thicker axles i.e bigger UJs and CV Joints
iii) Bigger/Stronger Crown & Pinion

The Weakest Link in the Chain are (IFS Live Axle)

1) IFS Half-Axle Universal Joints

2) Knuckle/Hub CV Joints.

What has the clutch got to do in this case? Please Explain.

Regards,

Arka
I disagree. If you make enough torque to actually cause braking stress on the drivetrain, the auto locking hubs will give way. They are not very strong in case of both safari and scorpio. The pin thingy is weak. Thats why tata seasoned guys always say, never shift "on the fly" even if it says on the fly 4wd. Shift to 4H also after parking the car.
As for the clutch, if you are royally stuck in 4H, you will stall the engine as it does not make enough torque to spin the wheels in high ratio.
If you want to stick to high, you have to rev up to 2500 or so, and start slipping clutch. It does not take long to burn clutch, and I have heard horror stories of "soft roaders" burning clutches because they did not care to go to low ratio 4x4.
Even in 4L, in case of very grippy rocky terrain, you need some clutch slip to make the wheels turn, esp when you are in a rut and all.
Thats why I mentioned clutch.

Regarding the stronger components of scorpio you mentioned, its true for front diff, right?
In the rear diff area Safari has a Dana Limited Slip differential(probably a 45?)

However, in real life scenarios, with an open diff, is it possible to damage the front diff when stuck(unless both your front wheels are gripped by something hard)?

Last edited by tsk1979 : 25th February 2010 at 14:04.
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Old 25th February 2010, 14:14   #132
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Hey 4X4 ADDICT: congrats on your new acquisition and look forward to an insightful ownership thread.
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Old 25th February 2010, 21:00   #133
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Default Some Pics of a 4WD Scorpio VLX

Adding some pictures of the differences in a 4WD Scorpio.
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Old 25th February 2010, 21:10   #134
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one disadvantage of a 4WD Scorpio over the 2WD version : you loose one cup-holder-space (where the 4WD selector is present) !
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Old 25th February 2010, 21:13   #135
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@BT, you have to pick if you want an extra drink or 4WD, and I chose 4WD :-)
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