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Old 24th July 2009, 01:16   #16
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And you were saying NO to this immaculate jeep just because of a tractor engine?

just one last thing, how much you been asked for this jeep?
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Old 24th July 2009, 01:38   #17
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I can see why your dad wanted you to buy the Jeep. Looks immaculate and well looked after.
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Old 24th July 2009, 05:15   #18
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You were saying no to this JEEP ? DKG, never think twice for such a clean job. All you need to do is to change the engine with petrol power. Which will take you for another 10-15K extra budget for you to build the old petrol engine ?

Radio at CJ3B is first time encounter for me, hmmm buy it or tell me where is it parked so i can steal the same.

Though the front cabin seats are not original spec to CJ3B, they look good.

Last edited by trammway : 24th July 2009 at 05:16.
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Old 24th July 2009, 07:00   #19
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Thats one neat looking Jeep. With the number of people trying to dump their Hurricane engines I am sure you could find a good engine very easily.

Nice find, congrads!

Also that Radio placement may be original but it sure is wacky.
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Old 24th July 2009, 07:43   #20
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Wow. What a deadly machine. No neat. Lucky person
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Old 24th July 2009, 08:35   #21
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That is a very well restored Jeep. Following things are not original / not fitted in original place. 1 ----- combination switch is added afterwards. 2 ----- gear lever knob on the middle lever is the original lever of the 3 speed transmission. Both the transfer case levers have spherical knobs. The knob fitted to the transmission lever is from the 4 speed KMT90 transmission. From the looks of the gear lever, it feels that the transmission may be 4+R. Please clarify if it is 3 speed or 4 speed. 3 ----- rear foot step is not original. It also reduces departure angle. 4 ----- front mud flaps never came on CJ3B. 5 ----- the fuel line seems to be hanging behind the left foot step. 6 ----- there seems to be a soft cover on the steering wheel which is not original. 7 ----- many other things like the the front bar etc are not original but everything looks very balanced and nice. Please post photographs of engine compartment / underfloor. Please remove the horns from behind the grille. They look out of place.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 24th July 2009 at 08:40. Reason: add info
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Old 24th July 2009, 08:40   #22
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Congratulations sir,

Thats a mean machine amongst your beauties.

First thing you need to do is plonk in the original engine, knowing Hyderabad, i am sure finding one Hurricane engine would be a cake walk.

Congrats once again.
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Old 24th July 2009, 09:28   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
..Almost instantly I was put off by a most harsh and noisy diesel. It had a pathetic international diesel and I found it so so coarse and horrid.
...
The noise vibration and harshness was such a huge put off.
...
No way !!! I was crystal clear the engine was a total disaster when it came to long distance driveability. Its a tractor engine.
..
Now my father is always hesitant to support me on my zillion hobbies/projects. He said "Usually I am the first to discourage you, but this time I think you should get this one"

That got me. Here was a man who always drove huge eight cylinder petrol cars and all his 80 years was accustomed to extreme comfort and refinement in his cars. He never ever cared for coarse machinery like Jeeps. And he was liking this car and wanting me to get it.
..
I bought the car.
Deepak, the last statement summarizes your post - Congrats! And BTW, that tractor engine is great with a very narrow power band and a huge torque band! 3 low is enough for most obstacles!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
1) Mileage – 6kms in Petrol Vs 10kms in Diesel.
2) Spare Parts Availability.
3) Easy to Repair – this so called Tractor Engine can be repaired by anyone anywhere with cheap spares.
4) Both engine have almost same Top Speed and yes CJ3B chassis can handle this much speed only. Even If you put any Japanese engine also you can’t cruise her to 120-130 confidently.
5) As per you International is Tractor Engine, but the same Tractor engine is doing duty in Mahindra Jeeps till date with small modifications. First with DI in Mahindra Major, Bolero, Invader,Savari, Pickup and with M2DI in Bolero & Scorpio ( I know they have refined it a lot)
6) Torque for Offroading – International with more Torque than Hurricane.
As per me, if you want this Jeep for occasional driving, you can trust this engine.

Excellent comparo sir!

Last edited by Jaggu : 24th July 2009 at 12:17. Reason: Readability, quoting entire large post. Thanks
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Old 24th July 2009, 09:54   #24
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Hey DKG:

It is a beautiful jeep. I am glad you went for it. Don't worry about the the International Engine. Find a new/used XD3P engine and 4Speed gearbox and this vehicle will be a keeper.
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Old 24th July 2009, 10:00   #25
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Beautiful man!!!!111. how much did you pick it up for???
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Old 24th July 2009, 10:02   #26
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Hey DKG
Congrats!!
That is one well restored Hunk of a jeep
( I dont think a Jeep would like to be called beautiful - my gypsy doesnt)
Hope you get a Hurricane engine soon.

Cheers
GB
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Old 24th July 2009, 10:09   #27
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Deepak, That is some awesome jeep you have got -- so this is a case of 'luck by chance'. Everything about the jeep screams quality

Congrats again.
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Old 24th July 2009, 11:03   #28
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discoverwild, beejay, rmonie - thank you guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The way you describe the engine, seems to have been running on some old weary worn out unit
On the contrary GTO the restorer has totally rebuilt the engine. It fires on one tick. Feels robust and crisp, not an ounce of smoke, and boy what a load of torque. Its just its NVH that is atrocious GTO. Its such a drag. If its not for the harshness and noise it would serve the vehicle great offroad.

Perhaps if we work on the mountings some harshness can be eliminated. Not sure. But the noise !!

Quote:
How soon are you going to slot that lever into 4x4 and get her dirty?
This weekend for sure. The first day we brought the car home we went up the road to a point where there is a steep drop, unpaved. We engaged low and went down on tickover. But when Shams slotted into reverse and it went right back up he exclaimed his foot was off the throttle ! That engine has a crazy amount of torque.

Quote:
the monsoons have created havoc on all our trails!
you guys are so lucky. The rains have played truant here in Andhra so far, perhaps the rain gods were waiting for me to pick up a 4x4 ? Its almost like let this mad lover of nature get his steed then the show will begin ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
that International Engine is not that bad
For sheer offroad tractability I have to say its a delight. Unbelievable torque. Its just on NVH that I can't live with it. It just destroys the charm of a Jeep.

Driving cars with leaf spring suspensions has a totally different allure, especially on undulating unpaved roads. Even our old vintage cars ride similarly. The silence of petrol engines makes this experience something worth relishing. This diesel simply kills it. Please don't get me wrong. The engine was designed only for the one purpose of big low end torque and it delivers. I don't think NVH was a design criteria at all.

Understandably for offroad champions like UBS and many others the NVH is a small compromise given the unit's impressive offroad prowess.

I too can compromise on NVH but only when the vibrations and sounds are a bit like what come out of a quad cam Ferrari V8 or a Lambo V12

Quote:
Following are my observations.
1) Mileage – 6kms in Petrol Vs 10kms in Diesel.
2) Spare Parts Availability.
3) Easy to Repair – this so called Tractor Engine can be repaired by anyone anywhere with cheap spares.
4) Both engine have almost same Top Speed and yes CJ3B chassis can handle this much speed only. Even If you put any Japanese engine also you can’t cruise her to 120-130 confidently.
5) As per you International is Tractor Engine, but the same Tractor engine is doing duty in Mahindra Jeeps till date with small modifications. First with DI in Mahindra Major, Bolero, Invader,Savari, Pickup and with M2DI in Bolero & Scorpio ( I know they have refined it a lot)
6) Torque for Offroading – International with more Torque than Hurricane.
As per me, if you want this Jeep for occasional driving, you can trust this engine.
All very valid points and I'd have to agree with you on all.

I wouldn't be exaggerating but all my life mileage was never an ownership criteria. Be it our vintage cars or my superbike fuel economy is never a consideration. Those big straight eights in my Packards drink a litre every 4 kms. To me a weekend 100 km drive in them or lunch at a restaurant cost the same. I'd rather burn the fuel any day.

So if offroading in the petrol engined Jeep means it burns a bigger hole in my pocket as compared to a diesel then so be it as the charm of a silent petrol far outweighs the economy of the diesel.

Yes on torque it would be a compromise. But come to think of it, for years the Jeep had the legendary L and F head Hurricane units. They are if anything adequate for most type of offroading.

My sole interest in offroading is to go into forest trails and visit mountains etc to enjoy nature. I like what those guys in Rajmachi and Karnataka do. I am not into monkeying around with 4x4's so if I see a ditch or a rock I am not into that trip of making sure I go through it/over it when I can always circum navigate it. To me its all about going places where a normal car can't. And above all its being close to something I deeply love, nature.

A lot of offroaders look forward to the monsoon season. I guess we can warrant a guess that the majority do so as it poses innumerous challenges to their offroad steed and their driving skills.

In my case this is not so. I look forward to the monsoons because nature in India comes alive. No other time of the year does our countryside come alive the way it does in monsoon. If I want to explore the countryside then I need a good offroader. I need to have the skills to be able to negotiate the challenges the wet trails pose. But my objective always has been and will remain to EXPLORE. In the process if I need to dig into whatever experience I have accumulated on the subject to ensure I meet and cross obstacles that would be my interest in the field and subject of offroading. I'm sure there are a few who view things this way.

Enjoying nature in an open top Jeep, in as much silence as possible has to be my number one priority when offroad.

So perhaps your observations point to a rational and sensible choice. A diesel for offroading. Performance and economy.

My choice, albeit irrational, enjoying nature in as much silence as possible.

PS: I will never forget that extraordinary moment in Corbett when we were in a Gypsy in a forest with 100 foot tall Sal trees, gently ambling along, the driver motioning us to speak in whispers, only the sound of dried leaves being crushed by the tires and an occasional gentle purr of the exhaust when the car accelerated, and there in front of us, a 150 feet ahead was a royal Bengal Tiger majestically walking on. We tailed him for a full five minutes. He knew we were behind, although we were almost noiseless.

Can you imagine what this crappy diesel would do to that moment?
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Old 24th July 2009, 11:32   #29
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WOW!!! You made my day DKG!!! Improves by age 1) Vine 2) Wisdom - That's why your dad insisted you to get this 3) Jeeps
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Old 24th July 2009, 11:49   #30
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Parm, svsantosh, Bazius, mjothi, PAVAN KADAM, headers, whitemm550, Gypsy-Boy thanks guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by trammway View Post
Let me know if you find it difficult to procure a petrol engine...Check the RC Book if it is already endorsed for Diesel engine, then there is a genuine issue in reverting back to petrol legally.
The F head are available and fairly inexpensive. You are right about the diesel endorsement. The Motor Vehicle Inspector at the main RTA is a huge Jeep aficionado. I am hoping he would help me get it back to petrol endorsement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Wow, welcome to the club. You weren't even looking for a Jeep, and it fell into your lap. Congratulations, soon your Jeep mechanic will be your new best friend.
Thanks Sharath. I am hoping the mechanic won't be on my must make friends list so soon The car seems pretty well restored. BTW after your ordeal one of the first things I watched closely was if it remained cool. It does!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
And you were saying NO to this immaculate jeep just because of a tractor engine?
I know I know, sometimes when good fortune comes calling at your doorstep you can almost not see it ! Parm I went from Yes - No - Yes in 12 hours (8 hours of which entailed some sleep) . Well in time before I had to give an answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman View Post
I can see why your dad wanted you to buy the Jeep. Looks immaculate and well looked after.
I was really surprised and amused at his reaction. I know for a fact that all his life he never cared for Jeeps. But seeing him so enthusiastic something in me flipped in favour. I think its fair to say I bought it mostly for myself but also for Dad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trammway View Post
You were saying no to this JEEP ? DKG, never think twice for such a clean job. All you need to do is to change the engine with petrol power. Which will take you for another 10-15K extra budget for you to build the old petrol engine ?
On the job Sir. Have lined up two engines which I will fire up on the weekend and then either have them rebuilt and put in or if its in good health will go in direct.

Quote:
Radio at CJ3B is first time encounter for me, hmmm buy it or tell me where is it parked so i can steal the same.
I agree, have never seen one either. One of my old passions was for ham radios. It would be nice to get this working. My friend Shams was saying the antenna is really special, he's not seen many of those either.

Quote:
Though the front cabin seats are not original spec to CJ3B, they look good.
BTW this is a Mahindra CJ3B of 1984. Could you please post a picture of what I should be seeking out for seats appropriate to the model and year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWolf View Post
With the number of people trying to dump their Hurricane engines I am sure you could find a good engine very easily.
I am told the old L head is hot property and sky high prices being called for. Luckily the F head is cheap. Am actually toying with the idea of picking up one now and one later so at any point in time I will have a reconditioned replacement ready/or for parts.

Quote:
Nice find, congrads!

Also that Radio placement may be original but it sure is wacky
Thanks. Its a lovely unit, compact and still seems to have the electrics inside. Will see if I can get it to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Find a new/used XD3P engine and 4Speed gearbox and this vehicle will be a keeper.
Thanks. If my experiment of returning it to petrol ends up a poor choice and is ineffective offroad (unlikely) I will eventually do as you suggest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Deepak, That is some awesome jeep you have got -- so this is a case of 'luck by chance'. Everything about the jeep screams quality

Congrats again.
Thanks Shahnawaz. I meant it when I said I will join you soon in Karnataka. Yours and Sharath's pictures of Karnataka offroading were too tempting to resist. Please expect your phones to start ringing soon on my account for requests for offroad excursions.
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