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Old 10th November 2011, 12:05   #436
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Default re: 1990 M&M CJ340

After grinding about 4MM off the face of the gear, It now fits. Well, not exactly just after grinding, we had to make 4-5 more hand made packing kit and now it fits and runs OK.

1990 M&M Cj340-grinding.jpg

^ UBS sir, notice the un-even wear on the red arrows... looks like improper usage in previous stint...


--------------------------------------------------
Excuse the looks, I dont have time and patience to keep the inside of jeep cleaner aesthetically.

The 4th lever....

1990 M&M Cj340-4-levers.jpg

Underbody... Needed longer bolts to hold it in place.

1990 M&M Cj340-under-body.jpg

-----------

Now awaiting the air compressor to arrive I need to learn pnuematics and what components other than a compressor make it complete. I know for sure some metal pipes and a TANK are needed, but what about the auto-release valves and safety gauges... any pointers, anyone?

Last edited by svsantosh : 10th November 2011 at 12:10.
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Old 10th November 2011, 15:15   #437
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Now awaiting the air compressor to arrive I need to learn pnuematics and what components other than a compressor make it complete. I know for sure some metal pipes and a TANK are needed, but what about the auto-release valves and safety gauges... any pointers, anyone?
1) you will find accessories like pipes ,valves ,safety valves, easy remove pipe connectors ,gauges in the Local Machine tools dealers shop ( people who sell machinery & compressors to small & medium industry/garages /paint shops )

2) small tank can be obtained from commercial vehicle parts ( trucks air tank )

3 ) real challenge is mounting the compressor IMHO in a proper way for longevity

4) also you will need length of hi pressure hoses from compressor to tank & tank to final outlet , these can also be found at Truck parts stores & also hydrolic parts ( read JCB ,Jacks etc ) dealers

5) In normal compressor ( non vehicular ) metal pipes are used from compressor to tank as the compressor is mounted on the tank , here you will need to adopt a special flexible hi pressure pipe

6) compressor inlet will need some dust/water protection wrt offroading
environment

7) small length of a prop shaft will be needed with universal joints ( to take minor misalignment bet compressor & GB/TC ) & slider too as the engine ( TC ) has good amount of vibrations & also its mounted on rubber mountings , so no fixed shaft will be possible



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Old 10th November 2011, 18:31   #438
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1) you will find accessories like pipes ,valves ,safety valves, easy remove pipe connectors ,gauges in the Local Machine tools dealers shop ( people who sell machinery & compressors to small & medium industry/garages /paint shops)....
Yes sir... thanks. I think I know the right place for this. The Lorry (scrap) market in bangy (Urvashi theater area) is the right place IMHO.

---------------

Juggling with one too many things right now!! Next big task is this, needs no introduction, the much coverted 8-bolt rear hub with 2 steel dowels. I am going the extra mile with studs in place of regular 8 bolts.

Longing to say "Up yours...., 6 bolt hubs"!! Lets see whats the end result going to be. Already 1st road block is ready. The outer dia of the hub is at least 2-3MM bigger than the existing brake drums hole!! Needs a lathe job tommorow for the following.

1) Turning the drum inner dia for the new hub to fit.
2) Locating and drilling the 2 holes in the 8 bolt flange for the dowels (coter pin in mech lang)

1990 M&M Cj340-img0343a.jpg
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Old 10th November 2011, 19:33   #439
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Yes sir... thanks. I think I know the right place for this. The Lorry (scrap) market in bangy (Urvashi theater area) is the right place IMHO.
Attachment 840489
IMHO please buy a new tank , old ones will be rusty from inside

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Old 11th November 2011, 10:19   #440
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Y
Juggling with one too many things right now!! Next big task is this, needs no introduction, the much coverted 8-bolt rear hub with 2 steel dowels. I am going the extra mile with studs in place of regular 8 bolts.
Hi Santosh,

Since the Hub has two locating Dowels please don't use studs. You may end up over torquing the stud and cracking the Hub.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 11th November 2011, 14:30   #441
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IMHO please buy a new tank , old ones will be rusty from inside
Bhai, Money factor plays a part in the experiment part, let alone the whole hobby. Lets see the cost of all these, cant spend too much.

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Since the Hub has two locating Dowels please don't use studs. You may end up over torquing the stud and cracking the Hub
Hi Arka,

Thanks a lot, I will stop my mech from fitting the studs rightaway...

PS - Did you encounter the issue of brake drums inner dia being too small for a 8bolt hub?

Last edited by svsantosh : 11th November 2011 at 14:36.
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Old 11th November 2011, 14:40   #442
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Bhai, Money factor plays a part in the experiment part, let alone the whole hobby. Lets see the cost of all these, cant spend too much.

Thanks a lot, I will stop my mech from fitting the studs rightaway...

PS - Did you encounter the issue of brake drums inner dia being too small for a 8bolt hub?
Hi Santosh,

Why don't you pick up 2 FC Van Drums for the rear.

Regards,

Arka

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Old 11th November 2011, 14:47   #443
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Why don't you pic up 2 FC Van Drums
Hi Arka, will the overall dia be the same (hope not to replace the carrier plate, pads, etc)... As of now the lathe job is over and i need to step out to collect them. But do you suggest I change it in near future. Out of jeep funds for now :(
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Old 11th November 2011, 14:54   #444
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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Hi Arka, will the overall dia be the same (hope not to replace the carrier plate, pads, etc)... As of now the lathe job is over and i need to step out to collect them. But do you suggest I change it in near future. Out of jeep funds for now :(
Hi Santosh,

Since your HUB is from a FC Van (post 1998) a hub from the same period/vehicle should work fine.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 13th November 2011, 08:41   #445
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Default re: 1990 M&M CJ340

Hi Arka,

Ref -- (In Post 438 you will notice the hub has 5 wheel studs in it, which may mean the brake drum will sit over this hub, which seems the normal OE Way)

Have seem to hit a roadblock IMO and mechanic says/shows not so!

Quote:
1) Turning the drum inner dia for the new hub to fit
I made this comment because (the red line in pic^) was too large to go thru the current brake drum in my jeep. And me and mech went to the lathe shop to explain what needs to be done and the operator gave a wrap on the knuckle and showed my mech this hub "is not supposed to sit/go thru inside the hub, but rather SIT OUTSIDE it.

How does the FC/Armada/etc hub and brake drum mate with each other?

Despite the lathe operator's words, my mech (and me), did what we had in mind and machined the drum for the hub to go thru!!

Now...!!

We came back, put the hub thru the drum (& studs), and placed it on the spindle only to find that the drum wont even reach the brake shoe area, or nearly just did, about a MM or 2!!

So, the operator was right, he had worked on a few pickup/bolero/FC van type hub/drums and he knew what he was saying...

Does this mean the brake drum between the rear of a 540/340/FC/Armada were ALL SAME? Only the hub position on drum differed?

I know, too many questions, but we roped in the boss (he doesnt come in until me and my employee-mech have thrown up our hands!!) - and he said all the pickups have the hubs over the drums!! So it is the studhead-drum-hub on the outer...

Even though we ended up turning a perfectly fine drum inner dia - it doesnt mean much now I think... I dont really know, I need to check on a TD.

As of now, the right (short axle) is completed and ready to take on the wheel, I am waiting to complete the right (long) side and do a on-jack test for any abnormalities! Not ready to take the jeep out on roads yet!!

Last edited by svsantosh : 13th November 2011 at 08:44.
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Old 13th November 2011, 14:10   #446
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Exclamation re: 1990 M&M CJ340

The finished product I was so trying to explain is below...

IF I Had stuck to the O.E Way of hub 1st and drum over it, it would have looked like this... As you can see, the drum will come out 1st and hub would still be on the spindle...

1990 M&M Cj340-old1.jpg

BUT!! Look at the In-completeness of brake drum Vs shoe.

1990 M&M Cj340-old2.jpg

Obviously - there is a different drum in the market for this idea. Mechanic says there is a drum which will cover this GAP, I am yet to figure out which!

These are the 2 hubs side by side - it is clear the ridge/step in the new one has a role to play, still to see the effects of it.

1990 M&M Cj340-img0348a.jpg

1990 M&M Cj340-img0349a.jpg

So, after all this experiments - this is the final product.

HUB OVER DRUM


1990 M&M Cj340-hub-over-drum.jpg

-----------------------
Arka, mechanic was too quick and put in the studs before I could stop him, hope I dont end up cracking the hub...

-----------------------

Notice the (1) re-designed grease cup since I could not come up with a proper 8-hole cup. The ^^ pic shows a badly drilled/damaged grease cup. I left it in there till I find a proper 8-bolt cup.

1990 M&M Cj340-grease-cup.jpg

The side view - the new hub now sticks out by approx 1CM more, thanks to its size...

1990 M&M Cj340-finished-side.jpg

----------
Note - this MOD, the current setup - HAS 1 MAJOR draw back from a operations/ownership perspective - For every brake shoe replacement/brake cylinder service -- I WILL HAVE TO open the HUB/Bearings/the whole setup!! Earlier, the labor costs would have been lesser for a rear brake job, but not now.

--------------------------

The jeep did a 2Km test run and is OK so far. No heating, abnormal noises, time to do a controlled test run over the period of few weeks to see if this really works...!! By faar the most unsatisfying jugaad I have undertaken till date, hope it sticks!!

Last edited by svsantosh : 13th November 2011 at 14:15.
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Old 14th November 2011, 10:09   #447
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Default re: 1990 M&M CJ340

[quote=ex670c;2574768Why don't you pick up 2 FC Van Drums for the rear.[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Hi Arka, will the overall dia be the same (hope not to replace the carrier plate, pads, etc)... As of now the lathe job is over and i need to step out to collect them. But do you suggest I change it in near future. Out of jeep funds for now :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post

How does the FC/Armada/etc hub and brake drum mate with each other?

So, the operator was right, he had worked on a few pickup/bolero/FC van type hub/drums and he knew what he was saying...

Does this mean the brake drum between the rear of a 540/340/FC/Armada were ALL SAME? Only the hub position on drum differed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Obviously - there is a different drum in the market for this idea. Mechanic says there is a drum which will cover this GAP, I am yet to figure out which!
Hi Santosh,

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...upgrade-3.html (My MM540XD upgrade)

Regards,

Arka
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Old 14th November 2011, 15:36   #448
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Default re: 1990 M&M CJ340

Hi Arka,

I am relieved to see my current setup is the same way as yours... Thanks for the help.

PS, wish there was a easy way to pull the drum to clean the brakes after a dirty OTR, but in hindsight it will instill discipline in making it a point to regrease the hubs + clean the brakes after every OTR
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Old 14th November 2011, 20:24   #449
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Default re: 1990 M&M CJ340

hello Santosh, try to put a cap without center bolt .

In my Jeeps case after doing the FFRA conversion , the hub flange bolts used to loosen quite often & while experimenting I found out that if a cap without bolts is used , the problem got sorted out 90%

providing a pic

1990 M&M Cj340-dscn3131.jpg


Note : please check the axle movement before using a cap like I suggested -- you need to check if a circlip is required to hold the axle or not ( if the axle is moving too much inside, without stopping after some minor movement )

In my case I didnt remove the metal piece inside the diffs ( which was necessary for the original SFRA adjustments ) so axle going too much inside was prevented

sudarshan
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Old 14th November 2011, 21:55   #450
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Oh another thing I noticed in many pics ( recent ones )

The axle stand is being used in a wrong way -- very dangerous way.

IMHO & AFAIK , it should be under the axle tube directly , or even chassis but no way under the slant surface of the leaf

reproducing your pic , watch the red circled area

1990 M&M Cj340-img0343a.jpg

Note ; I some times do place Jacks/stands this way ( for some work such as U clamps ) , but then the chassis too is supported on other Jacks/stands & that means no load of vehicle on that risky spot

Sudarshan
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