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Old 27th December 2009, 19:48   #91
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Question 1st real water fording (SORRY - NO PICS)

Guys had a blast today. There is a tiny rivulet near my home in Hosur (near blore), had taken the jeep there for a small test. Wanted to do it for many months till now.

Its a 30-35Mtr wide stream, the deepest being just an inch over the CJ340's ingress tub level, lots of boulders around in the water. Went in at 1st-High, and wheee... the tub got flooded and out I came the other side. The current was strong and had a few wheel spin moments.

I had 2 tractors on stand-by (this place is actually a entrance to a pitiable village whose request for a bridge is pending since 70's with the govt). They said I am the 1st non-tractor to ever enter their sweet little village. Believe it or not, only tractors are the life line to that village.

See red-line for a rough idea of the water level.
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---------Question-------


I was in the water for a net of 7-10 minutes. (did 3 trips, hehehe, addictive).

On the way back (15kms on GQ to civilization), I had "SWERVING" problems while braking.

1) Is it normal? What are the post-water-fording checks I should check?
2) I felt the clutch a bit jerky (water should have gone inside the bell housing right?). Was rideable, but just that jeep was leaping forward every time I released the clutch pedal.
3) After coming home, I noticed slight water drops out of FWH's. So has water entered the front AXLEs' also? Should I get the axles REMOVED, regreased, Also DIFF OILS replaced?
4) Water may have entered the diesel tank? Is it possible?

Gurus, please advice.

Last edited by svsantosh : 27th December 2009 at 19:50.
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Old 28th December 2009, 13:13   #92
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Santosh,
Deep Water fording must be avoided as much as possible. Please check the following for trouble free ride-

1. Air fillter for water entry
2. alternator
3. Self starter
4. check oils for water presence, gear box, both the diff's and even engine oil

Do the above 4 on priority. Raise the breather pipes up to body tub level to avoid water entry into diff's in future.
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Old 28th December 2009, 13:19   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Deep Water fording must be avoided as much as possible. Please check the following for trouble free ride-
...
Thx Vinod, my Jeep never went into water all these months except for a few feet distance in 1 OTR. So I wanted to check its prowess in a running stream. It did good, but yes - It was due for a oil checkup anyways, so went ahead with it. Rear diff was slighly leaking since purchase, so now will open it up and refill with new oil and a new packing kit. Will check other 4 points also, thx again.
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Old 28th December 2009, 14:11   #94
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what tires is the Red Classic having? going by the pics it seems the tire bead is not seating properly in the rim, i may be wrong, please correct.
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Old 28th December 2009, 16:17   #95
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Do try to move that seat as far behind as possible. Looks like you sitting on top of the steering.
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Old 28th December 2009, 18:02   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Santosh,
Deep Water fording must be avoided as much as possible. Please check the following for trouble free ride-

1. Air fillter for water entry
2. alternator
3. Self starter
4. check oils for water presence, gear box, both the diff's and even engine oil

Do the above 4 on priority. Raise the breather pipes up to body tub level to avoid water entry into diff's in future.
Hi,
This practical knowledge, sir, comes from experience

To this I would add a) check and regrease hub bearings b) Dry out clutch, else might rust and freeze on splines. c) If the water was muddy, brake system should be thoroughly cleaned.

Also, I have found that the original smaller drums of the 3B behaved better after deep water fjording than the later larger drums. Maybe others can comment.

Deep water fjording can and does lead to unreliability, and needless repair bills. If that is part of the price of having fun, and factored in, well ...... Personally, I do my best to avoid a Off Road situation. Only if I Have To. I think that makes me the odd man out here!

One question: If the water was at seat level, the bow wave should have been above bonnet level. Was it?

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 28th December 2009 at 18:03. Reason: Spelling correction
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Old 29th December 2009, 07:51   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beejay View Post
Do try to move that seat as far behind as possible. Looks like you sitting on top of the steering.
Yes BJ - this was purely for OTR purpose where I needed more control over the steering (doesnt help in a Lax position), Anyways these are old seats and needs a change soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Dry out clutch, else might rust and freeze on splines.

One question: If the water was at seat level, the bow wave should have been above bonnet level. Was it?
1) How to dry out the clutch? Remove, clean? Or just let the running heat evaporate the system?

2) What is a bow wave? Water was never above the bonnet level, I checked the under-bonnet after the ride to check till what level water had gone in.

Water was clean since it was a rocky area + rough sand stream, anyways - will check brakes since its due for a checkup.
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Old 29th December 2009, 17:45   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
1) How to dry out the clutch? Remove, clean? Or just let the running heat evaporate the system?

2) What is a bow wave? Water was never above the bonnet level, I checked the under-bonnet after the ride to check till what level water had gone in.

Water was clean since it was a rocky area + rough sand stream, anyways - will check brakes since its due for a checkup.
Just drive the vehicle till you think clutch has dried out. Should have expressed myself better: Do not store vehicle with wet clutch.

If water is above bodywork level, pushing forward causes the water to pile up in front (the bow wave) and will ultimately start streaming over the bonnet.

If it is fine suspended sand, it is worse than mud. This super abrasive has now got in where ever water has got in.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 30th December 2009, 10:28   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Just drive the vehicle till you think clutch has dried out. Should have expressed myself better: Do not store vehicle with wet clutch.


Found out the meaning of it the HARD way.

Yesterday, I went to my parents home where I left the Jeep after the "30mins of post fording driving". This was after ~50 hours of parking a WET Jeep. I heated and started the engine, the Clutch "Pedal" was smooth, engaged 2nd - TRIED to, gear lever didnt move a inch. Panic..!! Tried all gears, nothing moved. Clutch pedal was smooth.

Realized the clutch plate was stuck and only the pedal was moving. Switched off engine, gears were engaging now. So put the Jeep in 2nd, clutch pedal pressed, cranked it, Voila - the clutch freed itself. Then drove for about a hour in high revs to heat up the clutch nicely and I felt it was much better now.

Regd the brakes - they are dried out now and are perfect now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
If water is above bodywork level, pushing forward causes the water to pile up in front (the bow wave) and will ultimately start streaming over the bonnet.

If it is fine suspended sand, it is worse than mud. This super abrasive has now got in where ever water has got in.
Ok, I will get it checked, read on.

-----------------
I 'Think' I may have found a reliable mechanic in Hosur who specializes in M&M Jeeps (along with other MUVs too).

I have fixed a New Year's appointment for the following.

1) Replace - Engine oil, Oil filter, fuel filter, air filter oil.
2) Check/Replace - Gear Box oil, brake oil.
3) Check/Replace - Diff oils, oil seals.
4) Remove all 4 axles, clean brake assy's, re-grease axles (post water fording).
5) He pointed out the kingpin was dead (excessive play) and new one was needed.

What is the approx cost for all the above service (parts+Labor)? I am OK with parts since they are billed, but how much labor should I expect for these jobs?
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Old 30th December 2009, 12:37   #100
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Hard way! No way! You have had it easy. Hard is when you have to pay the bills. Really hard is when, as per Murphy's law, your vehicle becomes unreliable at the most inappropriate time.

Brakes:- The grit embeds itself in the brake lining, and proceeds to make mincemeat of the drum. Clean everything.

As Vinod has mentioned, put in long breather pipes. Most mechs simply take them off.

Kingpin: You should have had wheel shimmy.

The Jeep is a simple vehicle. Learn to work on it yourself. Then you'll know whether your mech is talking sense or not.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 3rd January 2010, 08:01   #101
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Thumbs up Found the perfect Mechanic for a Jeep :)

Spent the whole day (2nd Jan) at the New Mechanic I found in Hosur.

Drove in @ 11AM and drove back home @ 830PM. Me and Dad had a field day watching my Jeep getting worked on, and many other Jeeps and MUV's getting serviced.

Excerpts:

1) All 4 brake assy's opened up and cleaned. Bit of grime from fording was present, good I got them checked ASAP. Also, rust+water oozed out. No spares changed here.

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2) All 6 bearings kerosene washed and cleaned and regreased. One bearing had physical dent (clueless how), and all 6 showed slight surface damage due to water fording and storing. Lets see next service how good they hold up. Nothing changed here.

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3) 2 diff's checked for Water content and Oil quality. No issues, nothing changed.

4) Gearbox oil was good, SURPRISINGLY Transfer Case Oil was mixed with Water. Replaced with Servo SAE 140 Oil ~1.5Lts.

5) Engine oil, oil filter and fuel filter - All put off for next month as I am broke now(post new year celeb). Only 2000Kms covered since last oil change (6 months ago).

6) Major work was - BELL CRANK Shaft. Last week decided by same mechanic to replace it, so got it removed and replaced with a new one.

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7) Break up of cost

Parts:
Bell Crank Shaft- 350Rs
Gear Box Oil 2 Liters - 320Rs
Oil Seal (2) - 60Rs
Grease (0.5Kg) - 100Rs
Cotton Waste (3) - 30Rs
3/8*2" TVS Bolt/Nut (1) - 15Rs (for bell crank)
M10*5" Bolt/Nut/Washer (2) - 60Rs (for bell crank)
Kerosene (1) - 50Rs
Sand Paper (1) - 17Rs

Labor:
Front 2 side hub greasing + Drum Cleaning - 220Rs
Rear 2 side hub greasing + Drum Cleaning - 150Rs
GearBox Oil checking + Changing - 50Rs
Bell Crank Removing + Fitting - 130Rs
Lathe work to fix bell crank Shaft - 150Rs

Total
Parts - 1002Rs
Labor - 700Rs
Net - 1702Rs

What do you think?

I feel I found the perfect mechanic for a M&M in my small town. He has a cool head and a good team to work with him. All know their roles and responsibilities and work in Tandem. 8 hours may look long for the above list, but net work on the Jeep was less than 4 hours. Rest was whiled due to various other customers and want of electricity, etc etc...

------------**********------EDIT----------*********

I willl do a detailed road test and let you know the feel good factor. I drove back 2Kms to home and was AMAZED at the steering accuracy. Absolutely LOW play and very nice steering comfort... Rest later.

Last edited by svsantosh : 3rd January 2010 at 08:04.
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Old 3rd January 2010, 20:31   #102
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Default Road Test

Ok, did a 50Km road test, steering feels Sedan like; even moving from stationery position is easy. I was missing this feeling. Also did a under-body wash and nipple greasing done.

I have a observation and question. TO ME There are 30 known nipple grease points as below.

12 - Fr&Re Shackle points
6 - Fr&Re Crown joints (drive shafts)
2 - Re Axle wheel bearing points
1 - Brake lever/Pedal
1 - Clutch Lever/Pedal
1 - Bell Crank forged iron assy (Non nipple point, just a hole)
1 - Steering box side rod (the only nipple which needs hood to be opened whats the name?)
1 - Bell crank end steering rod (check nut, whats the name)
3 - Tie rod end joints
---Question---
2 - Front brake drum inner side nipples - see PICS, what are they for and do they need greasing too?


1990 M&M Cj340-wheel-nipple.jpg

1990 M&M Cj340-wheel-nipple1.jpg

Cost of under body wash, diesel+Oil spray & greasing = 250Rs
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Old 3rd January 2010, 22:33   #103
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You managed to reduce that much of steering play just by replacing the bell crank shaft? How much play did you have in the first place?
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Old 3rd January 2010, 22:44   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
You managed to reduce that much of steering play just by replacing the bell crank shaft? How much play did you have in the first place?
Well Imagine a Protractor.

If 90' is center, the play was from 150-30', a good 120'. It was abnormal I think, Mechanic showed me the nearly DEAD BellCrank Shaft. Now its much better.
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Old 3rd January 2010, 23:32   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Well Imagine a Protractor.

If 90' is center, the play was from 150-30', a good 120'. It was abnormal I think, Mechanic showed me the nearly DEAD BellCrank Shaft. Now its much better.
I have got pretty much the same issue. Thanks for this - will go look into it.
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