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Old 16th September 2009, 14:30   #1
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Default Mahindra Invader: Why is it not a 4x4 favorite

I am not sure if this is discussed here before. but might have discussed in what car section helping some one to buy a 4x4.
I start this thread to find out what are the odds that are againt invader to be a hard core off roader.

Gipsy and M540/classic/CJ3B are appearantly favourite here in this forum.
I do not have any doubts about their off road capabilities. But I think Invader is equally competent unless there are strong arguements otherwise.

I think it has following strong points..
1. a strong and relatively modern engine and diesel!
2. Has Power steering which neither gipsy or MM540 have
3. a little bit of modern look (looks like a overgrown gypsy)
4. enough load area to take a dirt bike along.

One thing that stands against is its highspeed manners, but again neither gipsy nor M540 are any better

other thing is weight

Experts here please enlighten
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Old 16th September 2009, 15:21   #2
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Hi All,
Little bit off topic but interesting story.We had Invader Di for around four years and the reason why we sold it because whenever you drive the vehicle dust comes inside . Everyone might be wondering that this is the case with all MMs and gypsies, but problem of this vehicle that once dust comes inside it does not go out. We had one of the first batc Invader. This problem was in such a large scale that MM guys have sent one person from their Plant, after lot of discussion and R&D at their end, they sent us big size mud flaps and rear spoiler, but the issue remain unresolved. Then we tried our logic and we made two side flaps near our legs like in CJ series.......Result Big Flop. We tried one more time and we went with covering whole invader to hardtop and fitted rear door, but of no use . During this whole R&D period we already covered 3 years and 70,000 kms. Everyone in my family dumped this vehicle so i took this opportunity and removed Hard top and poor quality mud flaps and spoiler provided by MM. I used it open top for one year. And finally we sold it. During last year of its use everyone was so feared with this vehicle that whenever we used to plan for offroad/sight seeing/Mining sight visit, everyoen used to confirm that whether we are going by invader or some other vehicle.
Apart from this problem this vehicle was excellent, she didn't give a single trouble for four years, even our drivers used this vehicle to tow big Trolley with 6000 liters of diesel/water that in roush terrain and no roads.

Regards,
SHubhendra Singh
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Old 16th September 2009, 15:35   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Hi All,
Little bit off topic but interesting story.We had Invader Di for around four years and the reason why we sold it because whenever you drive the vehicle dust comes inside .

Regards,
SHubhendra Singh
This is a nice find. My friend has a soft top invader too and the vehicle was always dusty. He uses the vehicle in his stone quarry. So I thought this must be the reason. Another friend uses a hard top and no problems as such.
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Old 16th September 2009, 16:41   #4
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@Subhendra
You have brought out a very interesting phenomenon. I dont understand why this should happen in Invader soft top and not in MM540. You said this happened even in Hard top version, this is strange. This would happen only if you have a hole underneath body else there is no chance of dust coming in. Anyway you know it better since M&M guys from factory came to check out the vehicle.

Futher you mentioned that you had Invader DI and not Di turbo. Invader Di was a fine vehicle but Di turbo is better. But this inconvenience is too much for others to consider this vehicle

@DRC
I doubt the durability of this vehicle. I havent seen invader in good shape after few years of hard use. Softtops are typically sought after in hilly taxi market, mining areas, law enforcement agencies etc. Invader isnt popular for the following reasons-

1. The body pannels are decidedly more expensive than CJ look comander. (infact MM540 look commander didnt do too well because body pannels had some issues and wasnt as cheap to repair as good old commander and major). Hence taxi market ruled it out because maintenance is expensive.

2. This is as expensive as a hard top Bolero Di turbo 4wd. So, who will opt for it? 5 door hardtop gets preference over 3 door soft top. Hence Pricing is a problem.

3. If this was aimed at personal segment mainly then it doesnt even come with a/c and p/s as an option!! This was supposed to be Classic replacement (how stupid!) and Gypsy alternative. This is a crude vehicle for 6.5 lakhs on road. Hence even today Gypsy sells more than Invader. What a shame!

4. For pure off road ability, this vehicle isnt as good as old jeeps as it is poor on articulation rear. But affordability issues have dampened the vehicle sales with enthusiasts as well. Articulation isnt the real big issue. Gypsy has far lesser articulation. Longer rear overhang is another put off too. However Invader is a good platform for a short wheelbase SPOA.

5. Resale value of even a well maintained Invader is poor. Enthusiats will not buy and common /commercial guys will not pay so much.

Invader has following advantages over MM jeeps-
1. Better turning circle
2. Better mechanical aggregates
3. better ergonomics and interiors
4. Better body work
5. better handling road compiant suspenion
6. Better NVH levels

The mechanical aggregates are very good. However the package as a whole is bad. M&M can revive this vehicles sale by just reviving the price. Drop it to Major's level or add about 20,000 premium. Then see this vehicles sales match Major's level or go a step above.
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Old 16th September 2009, 17:30   #5
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Interesting perspective!
When you say "doubt reliability, could you please elaborate what is the concern with these vehicles?
Main focous of your point is cost. I agree if it is a concern for rural taxi guys. However, those who spend hundreds of thousands of rupees are also do not seem to be serious about it.
You did mention about PS and AC not being options, but I was told by the Bangalore dealer they are available as options! Am I missing anything?
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Old 16th September 2009, 17:35   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC View Post
Interesting perspective!
When you say "doubt reliability, could you please elaborate what is the concern with these vehicles?
Main focous of your point is cost. I agree if it is a concern for rural taxi guys. However, those who spend hundreds of thousands of rupees are also do not seem to be serious about it.
You did mention about PS and AC not being options, but I was told by the Bangalore dealer they are available as options! Am I missing anything?
If I am not mistaken the XD3P used to have a version that had power steering and Ac. However I don't think versions had the same. I am not sure.
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Old 16th September 2009, 17:43   #7
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Now it is offered as optional. Earlier when I bought my Bolero 3 years back, Invader did not have PS/AC even as optional.
My view on invader - it loses on price, looks, comfort also..
Invader comes with leaf spring suspension all around.
Bolero - 2WD comes with Independent front suspension, rear leaf spring.
Ofcourse most other jeeps come with leaf spring all around. Another minus for both bolero and invader is its weight. OTR Enthusiasts dislike these vehicles because they are more likely to get struck in bad terrain due to sheer weight of the vehicle.
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Old 16th September 2009, 17:49   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC View Post
Interesting perspective!
When you say "doubt reliability, could you please elaborate what is the concern with these vehicles?
Main focous of your point is cost. I agree if it is a concern for rural taxi guys. However, those who spend hundreds of thousands of rupees are also do not seem to be serious about it.
You did mention about PS and AC not being options, but I was told by the Bangalore dealer they are available as options! Am I missing anything?
I doubt the durability of this vehicle and not reliability. This is based on experience of these vehicles being severely battered in mining locations where Major's and CL550's have done extremely well.

The reasons why people who could afford are not serious about this is that as i mentioned in my post this vehicle isnt a good package overall. You get a hard top for same money then why softop? Plus this is not a remarkable vehicle off road as well. Again this vehicle looks confused though looks are subjective. This vehicle is too crude for people who can really spend money, hence they dont prefer this. Invader 4wd is a good option for Coffee estate buyers who need 4x4 with doors with small dimensions. This market is too small in India. Hence you dont see so many vehicles

P/s was an option on XD3p as told by beejay. Again one couldnt get p/s with 4wd! Now no option at all in Di turbo versions. Dealer guy probably isnt well informed.

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 16th September 2009 at 17:50.
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Old 16th September 2009, 18:09   #9
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Recently there have been ads from Mahindra offering Invader for Rs. 3.26 lakh, perhaps the cheapest entry level diesel in the country. So that is something obviously going in favor of the Invader.
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Old 16th September 2009, 18:14   #10
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Default 3.26?

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Recently there have been ads from Mahindra offering Invader for Rs. 3.26 lakh, perhaps the cheapest entry level diesel in the country. So that is something obviously going in favor of the Invader.
Thats news to me. This makes it immensely value for money buy. Do you have that ad copy? Can you post it? How can they drop about 2 lakhs off a vehicle?
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Old 16th September 2009, 18:18   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
Recently there have been ads from Mahindra offering Invader for Rs. 3.26 lakh, perhaps the cheapest entry level diesel in the country. So that is something obviously going in favor of the Invader.
Is this offer across the country? This will surely dampen the second hand resale value too then. As Vinod suggests kindly post the ad here.
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Old 16th September 2009, 18:45   #12
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2 years ago, the dealer had quoted 4.65 L. Is it as expensive as 6.5 now!
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Old 16th September 2009, 18:48   #13
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Dear Friends,
Lurker seems to be confused with the Bolero Maxi Truck.
Here is a link from an external source which quotes similar price as lurker has mentioned in his post: Mahindra Maxx Maxi truck CNG variant price and features | DWS Auto India
It ain't the invader.
Cheers,
Deepak
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Old 16th September 2009, 21:25   #14
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Gentlemen, the 2009 4x4 Invader sells for around 5.1-5.3 lakh depending on color paint. I priced one out recently at two different dealers.

It has no Power Steering in stock form.

It has:

MDI3200TC engine
5 speed tranny
NGCS (new generation chassis system)

Among its debits are a suspect rear suspension and ground clearance of 185mm which is a little low. Perhaps these can be corrected with some after market tinkering.
There is a good post by Butus on the Invader's rear suspension, search for it.

I do not understand the dust and dirt comments. If there is a problem beyond what is normal for an off roader then, like any other problem, its source can be found and eliminated.


PS....has anybody seen Arka lately? Does he look more 'Distinguished"....???

Last edited by DirtyDan : 16th September 2009 at 21:36.
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Old 17th September 2009, 11:07   #15
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Default Its all about value equation

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
NGCS (new generation chassis system)

Among its debits are a suspect rear suspension and ground clearance of 185mm which is a little low. Perhaps these can be corrected with some after market tinkering.
There is a good post by Butus on the Invader's rear suspension, search for it.
DD,
A small correction NGCS is New Generation Chassis & Suspension. It would be a not fair to not buy invader on rear suspension articulation reasons alone. Heck it is far better than Gypsy and other 4x4's with independent front suspension. If biggies like Safari and Scorpio can do some serious mudplugging then why not an Invader?

The point is simple, at 6.2 to 6.5 lakhs on road a person expects atleast power steering and a/c in vehicle since there is lot less metal compared to hard top. Hence value equation doesnot fit properly. If some one buys an invader and fits a/c and power steering (OEM) he is set aside by another 60-70k bringing total cost of ownership to about 7lakhs. Then you have tyres to change and alloys to fit apart from a music system for long distance journeys. add 45k for it! There you land up in Bolero 4wd category which has all the bells and wistles like power windows etc factory barring enemic engine, standard factory tyres and a longer wheel base.Even though Invader may be better than Bolero slx 4wd off road then comes the mental block to shell out so much of money again for a vehicle which is not a hardcore 4x4 weighing at 1575kg!

Some body who needs a pure utility vehicle in shortwheel base and wants to move in style will purchase a Invader as second or third vehicle. People who can afford and value heritage settle in for Major 4wd that leaves little market for this vehicle.
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