Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30th September 2010, 12:00   #196
BHPian
 
starter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 898
Thanked: 261 Times
Default AC for Gypsy

Hello Friends,
Since Ragul is anyway planning for an AC install, i would like to share this information that i received from Vaibhav (Gotzuk). He was really kind to provide all this information and share his experience.

This is when i was trying to get the AC installed with all OEM parts or atleast parts from Maruti.

Quote:
Compressor: The Sanden 507 is not really the best but the most preffered unit as a) its not very expensive, and b) has a good service life. Since its an old design its pretty easy to get repaired too if it goes bad. Now this compressor is mounted on an aftermarket bracket which bolts on to existing mounting points on the engine. Also your single belt crank pulley will be changed to a double belt pulley to run the compressor. Also saps some engine power as it is a relatively big compressor for the 1.3 engine.

With the OEM esteem compressor you can use the OEM esteem compressor mounting and the double belt pulley. Plus point is all fittings are OEM and the compressor size is compatible with the engine. Lesser drop in power viz a viz the 507 sanden unit too.

Blower/Cooling Coil: Here you have no option! Cooling coil kits for the Gypsy blower unit are non existent now. So far I know of only two Gypsies which have them. So unless you can dig out one of those units, you have no other choice but to use an aftermarket cooling coil/blower combo. You can either install is under the glove box or inside the dash in place of the original unit. Air can be routed out thorugh the original vents. You need a good cooling coil as the Gypsy has poor air sealing and hence needs better cooling to maintain a comfortobly cool cabin.

Condenser: Ideally the condenser should be placed ahead of the radiator. That is what I did and it resulted in the car heating up in slow speed traffic. Relocated it under chassis and overcame the problem and then later on added the electric fan to the radiator.
It does not lower the GC and out of harms way. I have had no damage in 5 years.
But I think that if the condesor is placed in front of the raditor and you replace the belt driven fan with an electric unit and add a high speed fan to the condesor, it should work.


Electric Fan: It can either replace the belt driven fan or be added to the front of the raditor. If you are replacing then use a thermostat for auto operation, if just adding to the front, then use a switch to use it when needed.
Make sure that your installer uses orginal R134 gas by DuPont.
Now, from reading about Guru's (GSFerrari) AC install, i hear that he has opted for Sanden variable compressor which is installed in Swift. So, that could also be an option.

You could find more details about Sanden products on their website here.
Sanden Vikas :: Products :: Compressors

Cheers,
Deepak
starter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th September 2010, 18:37   #197
Senior - BHPian
 
Desmosedici's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,381
Thanked: 405 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by starter View Post


Hey Raj,
Thanks a lot!
Coil conversion?? But if he gets it right, articulation and ride quality on your Gypsy would be something to die for!!
So, what have you decided for suspension upgrade?


Cheers,
Deepak
its very tempting but if not done perfectly, it will make make the vehicle dynamics go for a toss so not in favour, the gurus havent done it so no way i am doing it.
CFLs - have to order, saving some money for that.
Gas Shocks - Bilstein is too expensive so trying to get monroes from a cousin in canada. not able to get those in mumbai.

what more can we do
Desmosedici is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th September 2010, 23:59   #198
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 826
Thanked: 113 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by starter View Post
Hello Friends,
Since Ragul is anyway planning for an AC install, i would like to share this information that i received from Vaibhav (Gotzuk). He was really kind to provide all this information and share his experience.

This is when i was trying to get the AC installed with all OEM parts or atleast parts from Maruti.



Now, from reading about Guru's (GSFerrari) AC install, i hear that he has opted for Sanden variable compressor which is installed in Swift. So, that could also be an option.

You could find more details about Sanden products on their website here.
Sanden Vikas :: Products :: Compressors

Cheers,
Deepak
Thanks Deepak. I am collecting all Gypsy A/C posts since a week, and I will try and summarize all approaches in the mods post one day.

The one doubt that just crept into my mind is - will an A/C result in drop in power and make the vehicle sluggish to respond? The BSIV Gypsy is 1200cc 85bhp unlike the BSIII.

--Ragul
Ragul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2010, 09:54   #199
BHPian
 
starter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 898
Thanked: 261 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragul View Post
The one doubt that just crept into my mind is - will an A/C result in drop in power and make the vehicle sluggish to respond? The BSIV Gypsy is 1200cc 85bhp unlike the BSIII.
1200CC??
Are you sure about this? I do not see this reflected anywhere on the internet.
Anyway, if 1200CC, 85 BHP is true, then it is the K-Series engine.
So, if that is true, you can expect even better fuel efficiency from your engine. I am not sure on how it would impact the off-road driveability.
Coming to your question, it would definitely sap some amount of engine power. How much depends on the compressor. But it should not really matter much on the highway/city driving. While you are off the road, you may switch off the AC.

One more thing, the Gypsy cabin is not at all insulated. The cabin heats up due to the heat from the transmission tunnel, fire-wall. Also, air from outside escapes through the gap in doors and wind-shield. Unless, you seal these gaps and insulate the cabin, AC would not be very effective. So, keep this also in mind.

Cheers,
Deepak
starter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2010, 13:49   #200
Senior - BHPian
 
Desmosedici's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,381
Thanked: 405 Times
Default

K Series, in a Gypsy. i doubt that. But i guess the K Series is less torqy than the G13B engines but it sure shall be smoother on road.

As per the gypsy website, it is still on the G13B.

Engine
Type G13BB MPFI 16 Valve Gasoline
Cylinder 4
Displacement 1298cc
Maximum Power 80 bhp @6000 rpm
Maximum Torque 103 Nm @ 4500 rpm

and regarding AC, i just drove 10Kms to office in the mumbai heat and i was drenched you definitely need it.
Desmosedici is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2010, 15:33   #201
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,489
Thanked: 6,767 Times
Default

Guys going for AC:

- Avoid 507 its too big for this engine. Try to source 505 or similar ones, so that it doesn't zap the power. Always go with brand new parts, dont go the second hand way with AC.

- Do not remove the original fan or shroud, leave it as it is.

- Fix an additional electric fan in front. Points to note, the fitment has to be neat and air tight at the edges, small fan which doesn't cover the area of radiator OR big fat fans which is bigger than radiator size will not help. Gap between fan, ac grill and radiator is critical and has. A good AC installer knows this and will take care of it or observe stock AC fitment by manufacturer to understand the fine points of placement. Try rigging up a solenoid switch for this additional electric fan, for non ac operation also.

- Ensure you give the cabin, firewall and transmission tunnel good thermo-coal or similar insulation.

- Ideally partition off the front area, expecting bone chilling ac for the whole cabin is being over ambitious in a gyspy.
Jaggu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2010, 16:04   #202
Senior - BHPian
 
Desmosedici's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,381
Thanked: 405 Times
Default

But Jaggu, 507 is the one that is always offered by every AC Guy. Most just stick to 507 stating thats the only one available.

Subros 80cc Compressor - that would also be good right in terms of decent cooling and less power sap?
Desmosedici is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2010, 17:41   #203
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 826
Thanked: 113 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by starter View Post
1200CC??
Are you sure about this? I do not see this reflected anywhere on the internet.
Anyway, if 1200CC, 85 BHP is true, then it is the K-Series engine.
So, if that is true, you can expect even better fuel efficiency from your engine. I am not sure on how it would impact the off-road driveability.
Coming to your question, it would definitely sap some amount of engine power. How much depends on the compressor. But it should not really matter much on the highway/city driving. While you are off the road, you may switch off the AC.

One more thing, the Gypsy cabin is not at all insulated. The cabin heats up due to the heat from the transmission tunnel, fire-wall. Also, air from outside escapes through the gap in doors and wind-shield. Unless, you seal these gaps and insulate the cabin, AC would not be very effective. So, keep this also in mind.

Cheers,
Deepak
I will ask again if its the G13BB. Anyways being a first time car owner, it is pointless for me to acquire the hang-ups of the more seasoned veterans about a lesser engine. I have never driven the "better" engine but frankly I don't care. I am fairly confident it will drive me where I want it to and I will live with what it provides. As to OTR capabilities, my purchase will give other T-BHP members a chance to evaluate and compare, when I eventually join the OTR gang. Increased knowledge to the forum if nothing and at my "expense".

somebody was raving about a Sanden 610 compressor, but i dont find it anywhere on their website.

How about installing this roof mounted unit instead of making holes in the dashboard? Sanden Vikas :: Products :: Cooling Units

Cheers
Ragul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2010, 18:35   #204
Senior - BHPian
 
Desmosedici's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,381
Thanked: 405 Times
Default

Hi Ragul,

The roofunit is a secondary unit and will not provide adequate cooling in my opinion.
Secondly, you should also be aware that the aftermarket blower that would be used can be routed the existing dash vents however the other vents like the foot vents wont be functional.

Sanden v610 is available but not used so much so most ac guys dont know. contact GSFerrari for info on Sanden 610.

Last edited by Desmosedici : 1st October 2010 at 18:36.
Desmosedici is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2010, 23:01   #205
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,489
Thanked: 6,767 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmosedici View Post
But Jaggu, 507 is the one that is always offered by every AC Guy. Most just stick to 507 stating thats the only one available.

Subros 80cc Compressor - that would also be good right in terms of decent cooling and less power sap?
One place you can try is a parts stockist/distributor for AC, they can help you with this. 505 was easily available couple of years, don't know about now. Even Hitachi used to have a small but pretty efficient compressor forgot the exact number.
Jaggu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2010, 21:23   #206
BHPian
 
COUGAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 538
Thanked: 83 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmosedici View Post
But Jaggu, 507 is the one that is always offered by every AC Guy. Most just stick to 507 stating thats the only one available.

Subros 80cc Compressor - that would also be good right in terms of decent cooling and less power sap?
There are other options as well. I got a Sander 5H11 fitted in my MPFI king: translated it means 5 cylinder, (H) Head Mounted, 110cc. Works superbly when mated with the Superking blower unit: literally blows chilled air into your face.

Only complaints so far are engine heating when idling for more than 2 mins at a time and the thermostat not cutting off properly resulting in the cabin turning into a freezer compartment!

no negatives observed on Fuel economy: got 12.5 something with AC on throughout during my last test drive to Mumbai and back: AC was on all the time.
COUGAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2010, 21:42   #207
BHPian
 
starter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 898
Thanked: 261 Times
Default

Thanks Roy for sharing this update.
Just one question, what do you plan to do with this over-heating problem?
Do you also have a electric fan in front of the radiator?
Why is nobody planning on putting the condensor under the car?
Can't we place the condensor adjacent to the rear petrol tank? This would mean the condensor would be above the rear differential.
I know that there is a risk, but we also have the petrol tank there
Cheers,
Deepak
starter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2010, 22:45   #208
Senior - BHPian
 
Desmosedici's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,381
Thanked: 405 Times
Default

Hi Deepak, i dont think a condensor would protrude a low as the gas tank but is there enough space available for that. If yes, then you can fit and maybe fabricate a metal guard to protect it while going off the road?. Just asking questions. Gurus can shed more light.
Desmosedici is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2010, 23:09   #209
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,489
Thanked: 6,767 Times
Default

Are you sure you want to run so much of piping? Keeping the pipe short is another way to take off the load and ensure proper cooling.

And by moving the grill there do you think you can rule out overheating? Cant it be just due to the load of the compressor along with a very small cooling system that the gypsy has, the cause. Think about it.
Jaggu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2010, 09:38   #210
BHPian
 
COUGAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 538
Thanked: 83 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by starter View Post
Do you also have a electric fan in front of the radiator?
Just one 80W electric fan ahead of the condensor apart from the belt driven fan behind the radiator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starter View Post
Just one question, what do you plan to do with this over-heating problem?
Well for one there are king size gaps between the radiator and the condensor. Also the cover of the radiator fan has damage again potentially allowing air to escape upwards. Atleast thats the theory. Plan to seal these gaps first and see how that goes.

Will be doing this stuff in Bangalore now since i am shifting there this weekend. Hope to meet you guys there.



Quote:
Originally Posted by starter View Post
Why is nobody planning on putting the condensor under the car?
too complicated with the piping etc. Best to Keep it simple.
COUGAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swift DZire VDi - 20000 Kms Update - Few Problems SumitBahl Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 40 27th March 2011 18:35
Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue gsferrari 4x4 Technical 86 9th March 2011 17:25
Buying the new MG413W HT (Gypsy King): Now bought a Bolero sriku SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 20 18th July 2009 13:16


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 23:20.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks