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Old 17th November 2009, 02:42   #91
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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
On the button! I have no intention of ever to put power steering on mine. One of the good things about the Gypsy off road is that the steering wheel doesn't shimmy left right all the time, and I was never concerned about it trapping a wayward thumb. I do not know if power steering will affect this good trait. And it would be one more system that can be a cause for failure. For similar reasons, I am very reluctant to even add the AC.

Re the FWH, can someone list the top three reasons for installing these, because it is one more additional system at the end of the day. And apart from this and the cost factor, the couple of reasons for not doing so.
Dear Sawyer,
Your gypsy comes with a steering box (with recirculating balls). Power assist would not take away this benefit.

The only issue would be to find a ' speed variable power assist'. And the reliability issue that you already mentioned.

Last edited by wanderhermit : 17th November 2009 at 02:43.
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Old 17th November 2009, 10:08   #92
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Jaggu the white markings on the tyres look great and go with the roof.

Don't recommend you the AC modification, it will cost you reliability, if you actually wanted an AC you have got yourself the wrong vehicle.

Infact recommend you go the least mods and at the most restict yourself only to the Power Lamps. If you do intend to go off road reliability is very important in hard terrain and you are loosing that with the kind of mods planned.
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Old 17th November 2009, 10:23   #93
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Guys as far as i know AC fitment is possible with some minor surgeries and have seen fully working idle advance and automatic fan system installed. Its just that you have to find a good guy who knows the car and AC. One can always go for a smaller AC (to reduce the load) by putting a plastic partition (transparent) in front half to reduce the cooling area, this can be zipper attached for easy removal.

Again if you can bear with some protruding blower unit, its best to install and external AC blower, instead of shoe horning it into the existing ducts. Will save alot of heart ache.

FWH increases the life of front tranny by leaps, as far as engaging is concerned its just matter of getting used to the idea. When you are planning/going on offroad or tougher road conditions, just lock it! and leave it there.
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Old 17th November 2009, 10:23   #94
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@wanderhermit - appreciate the detailed response. I shall stay away from the AC addition!
Re FWH, two questions - are the Aisin imported ones available from the MGP range at the price mentioned? And, given the brake comment, are you suggesting it might be best to stay away from installing these? Apart from the forgetting to lock them issue.
Which leaves me, for now, with just the rear CFL to do in terms of mods.
@Jaggu, just saw your post - would the life of the front tranny/diff, without the FWH, be the same as the rear? If so, I can live with that, I think/

Last edited by Sawyer : 17th November 2009 at 10:25.
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Old 17th November 2009, 10:57   #95
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Yes if properly used it will definitely improve life. But remember just like using the 4x4 tranny its essential to use the hub also, since it helps in lubricating the parts inside. I dont have any stats of how much % it will help, maybe the 4x4 guru's can comment better.

At the end of the day if you really dont want one more thing to remember while driving, forget what i have typed so far in my earlier posts Yeah Gypsy is a simple vehicle why complicate it.
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Old 17th November 2009, 11:09   #96
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Yeah Gypsy is a simple vehicle why complicate it.
That was my thought too. Some of the mods here seem to be made to just have something to fiddle with, to get a sense of increased personal involvement in things. Nothing wrong with that of course, to each his own! I would go in for the FWH only if I was sure that they would lighten up the steering considerable in the city, for parking and slow speed turns. And I am not sure it will do that - will it? That way, the no power steering issue would vanish.
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Old 17th November 2009, 13:13   #97
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It will free the front steering a bit, that am sure. But is it as good as having a power steering? No.

khan saab your comments, since you have em on spidey and that too with big far mudzilla's
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Old 17th November 2009, 22:23   #98
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After reading all the posts and visiting the MSIL web site, I wish that MSIL would do small mods to fit within the 4.0 m limit (Just a few mm reduction) and offer the 1.3 ddsi engine as an option. Then they can price it at the same price point by availing the excise cuts and make it even more VFM. . .
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Old 18th November 2009, 01:24   #99
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My reply is in bold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Guys as far as i know AC fitment is possible with some minor surgeries and have seen fully working idle advance and automatic fan system installed. Its just that you have to find a good guy who knows the car and AC.
You are right saar. I have seen it on 410 and 413 carb. It was so very easy to install an a/c on these machines. My question is very simple. How will you do that on an MPFI 413 Gypsy? And I have even discussed this issue with very good mechanics. Their answer is that I will have to find someone to hack the ECU. Any hacker friend, kindly let us how to do this.

One can always go for a smaller AC (to reduce the load) by putting a plastic partition (transparent) in front half to reduce the cooling area, this can be zipper attached for easy removal.
This is the most plausible solution. Smaller a/c. Smaller coil with heater. Try keeping it as close to stock. But positioning of condenser is still an issue. If you place it in front of radiator, there have been instances where the engine overheats (even if the a/c is off) under certain conditions. If I remember clearly, a team-bhp member Sudev face this problem while crossing Tanglang La pass. As the air is rarefied, the radiator could not cool the car as the condenser was directly in front of it. And if you decide to fit it inderbody than you can't have a smaller compresser than sanden 507 (for the increased distance). Although, the coil can be the smaller one. After considerable experimentation, I am trying to decrease the load by altering the diameter of the pulley that drives the compressor. Let me do this and than I will post the learning. Parallel to this experiment, the hunt for a solution for that idling issue is still on.

Again if you can bear with some protruding blower unit, its best to install and external AC blower, instead of shoe horning it into the existing ducts. Will save alot of heart ache.
Protruding blower unit. Is this a Jeep! Ahem. Well just kidding. It can be given a thought. Its entirely, a personal choice.

FWH increases the life of front tranny by leaps, as far as engaging is concerned its just matter of getting used to the idea. When you are planning/going on offroad or tougher road conditions, just lock it! and leave it there.
That does make sense. And I have inquired from numerous police escort drivers about the repairs the gypsy demands in long run. They normally drive a Gypsy for 2 or 2.5 lac km in 3-4 years. And during all this time, all it demands is regular servicing. Not a single one complained of any specific issue. Gypsy's reliability is just bullet proof. And with FWH, we can always enhance the life of front tranny further.

Last edited by wanderhermit : 18th November 2009 at 01:35.
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Old 18th November 2009, 02:06   #100
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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
@wanderhermit - appreciate the detailed response. I shall stay away from the AC addition!
Re FWH, two questions - are the Aisin imported ones available from the MGP range at the price mentioned?
The software with authorized dealers does not specify any manufacturer. It just says MGP. And as the dealer seldom get such requests, they were unable to give an answer regarding brand

And, given the brake comment, are you suggesting it might be best to stay away from installing these? Apart from the forgetting to lock them issue./
Well, that is what the guy meant. But you can always install them and keep them locked. Well, is this exactly what I just wrote

Last edited by wanderhermit : 18th November 2009 at 02:07.
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Old 18th November 2009, 02:27   #101
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Originally Posted by harshavardhan View Post
After reading all the posts and visiting the MSIL web site, I wish that MSIL would do small mods to fit within the 4.0 m limit (Just a few mm reduction) and offer the 1.3 ddsi engine as an option. Then they can price it at the same price point by availing the excise cuts and make it even more VFM. . .
Harshavardhan
Maybe a HVAC. Maybe if they can also make it wider (like bolero) so that two people can sit a bit away from each other. That would also make it much more stable at high speeds and there is room for having wider comfortable seats with handrests. And if they could just put a newer transmission like that of Swift or SX4. Maybe they could add a power steering.

And may be a loackable rear differential. A centre differential. A shift on the fly 4X4 control. May be a nice metal hard top with ski racks. So that it does not keep leaking during rains. A sky roof. And a bike holder at the rear (like Skoda yeti). And Airbags for safety. May be a newer dash where you can put a two DIN Music system with touch screen.

Maybe we were never invaded and were as developed as any other country in the world. And were spoilt for choices.
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Old 18th November 2009, 06:53   #102
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Originally Posted by wanderhermit View Post
Well, that is what the guy meant. But you can always install them and keep them locked.
In which case, why bother?! I can live with a front tranny that lasts as long as the rear one.
Re your other maybes, they have done all of that, its called the GV! All it lacks is a true body on chassis build.

Last edited by Sawyer : 18th November 2009 at 07:00.
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Old 18th November 2009, 09:36   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
...I would go in for the FWH only if I was sure that they would lighten up the steering considerable in the city, for parking and slow speed turns. ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
It will free the front steering a bit, that am sure. But is it as good as having a power steering? No.

khan saab your comments, since you have em on spidey and that too with big far mudzilla's
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
In which case, why bother?! I can live with a front tranny that lasts as long as the rear one.
...
Sawyer, best advice: Drive a Gypsy with FWH and see the difference. If you like what you see then go for it, else forget it.

My experience: I drove a 1.3 MPFI with NO FWH for ~3 years and then went in for FWH. After FWH, I was cursing myself that why on earth did I not get this done before. The whole steering feel/front driveline feel changes. (But don't compare it to power steering etc.). It's just the way the combination of the steering & driveline behaves after FWH that makes a hell lot of difference.

But then to each his own..
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Old 18th November 2009, 13:04   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderhermit View Post
You are right saar. I have seen it on 410 and 413 carb. It was so very easy to install an a/c on these machines. My question is very simple. How will you do that on an MPFI 413 Gypsy? And I have even discussed this issue with very good mechanics. Their answer is that I will have to find someone to hack the ECU. Any hacker friend, kindly let us how to do this.
This was done by a M.A.S.S mech who did the ECU wiring/hack. I met this guy at a garage so couldnt explore much. Maybe ECU guys can throw more light in here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderhermit View Post
This is the most plausible solution. Smaller a/c. Smaller coil with heater. Try keeping it as close to stock. But positioning of condenser is still an issue. If you place it in front of radiator, there have been instances where the engine overheats (even if the a/c is off) under certain conditions.
Fit a Wagon R electric fan and plonk in a thermostat switch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderhermit View Post
If I remember clearly, a team-bhp member Sudev face this problem while crossing Tanglang La pass. As the air is rarefied, the radiator could not cool the car as the condenser was directly in front of it. And if you decide to fit it inderbody than you can't have a smaller compresser than sanden 507 (for the increased distance). Although, the coil can be the smaller one. After considerable experimentation, I am trying to decrease the load by altering the diameter of the pulley that drives the compressor. Let me do this and than I will post the learning. Parallel to this experiment, the hunt for a solution for that idling issue is still on.
All the best do try out the electric fan option its much more easier. If you dont want the hazzle of a thermostat, then connect it using a manual switch, which you can operate in case of rising coolant temp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderhermit View Post
Protruding blower unit. Is this a Jeep! Ahem. Well just kidding. It can be given a thought. Its entirely, a personal choice.
Yup good thing you have freedom to fit it in an area of choice to maximize cooling to your liking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderhermit View Post
That does make sense. And I have inquired from numerous police escort drivers about the repairs the gypsy demands in long run. They normally drive a Gypsy for 2 or 2.5 lac km in 3-4 years. And during all this time, all it demands is regular servicing. Not a single one complained of any specific issue. Gypsy's reliability is just bullet proof. And with FWH, we can always enhance the life of front tranny further.
Ask them if they hear front axle's making clunk clunk sound while running. Thats the problem one can try to avoid to an extent. Dont worry this will not break down the vehicle, but just an irritating noise thats all.

ps: Please reply to quote's like above, easier for the next person to reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Sawyer, best advice: Drive a Gypsy with FWH and see the difference. If you like what you see then go for it, else forget it.

My experience: I drove a 1.3 MPFI with NO FWH for ~3 years and then went in for FWH. After FWH, I was cursing myself that why on earth did I not get this done before. The whole steering feel/front driveline feel changes. (But don't compare it to power steering etc.). It's just the way the combination of the steering & driveline behaves after FWH that makes a hell lot of difference.

But then to each his own..
Yup and thank you sirji!

Last edited by Jaggu : 18th November 2009 at 13:07.
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Old 18th November 2009, 13:43   #105
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Thanks Everybody for your advice and feedback.
Along with the current discussion, are there any easy workarounds for AC.
Since its raining in Bangalore these days, i have to close all the windows. Within minutes of doing this, the front windshield mists up and there is absolutely nothing i can do. I even tried switching on the blower and it does not work. Only solution being, bring the windows down by an inch. Because of this, the rain water starts dripping inside and because of this my front carpet gets wet. Would this wet carpet trigger rusting? If yes, how do we avoid this? Any easy solution other than closing the windows completely and wiping the front wind shield once in a while with a piece of cloth?
@Jaggu: I know that Vaibhav (Gotzuk) also has an AC installed on his King. I shall PM him and ask for details.
@Shahnawaz: Which would you suggest, Aisin or Lambda? Lambda, maintaining it would be easier, i presume, since it is in Bangalore or do you suggest that i go with MGP (Aisin)?
@Wanderhermit: Thank you again for all the info.
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