Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Vehicles


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th November 2009, 11:51   #91
Senior - BHPian
 
beejay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Nilgiris
Posts: 1,916
Thanked: 108 Times
Default

The price of the Thar is most crucial. It will either make or kill it.
Just for thoughts, a Jeep will always be Jeep and never a car. How many wives/girls would experience the same thrill we get out of a Jeep. Many would get divorced this way. Okay. Leave them girls out of this, try explaining to somebody that you intend to by a soft top Jeep for 7.5L, considering that's the price. In their eyes it will always be Jeep. Like someone pointed out they will compare it with everything in the market.
6L OTR is more like it, however I don't think that would ever happen.

This would be a worthy replacement for the 550s in the Army. So there goes the dream of acquiring it second too, considering the price for the 550s in the market today. It should do good numbers there.
beejay is offline  
Old 18th November 2009, 12:12   #92
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,493
Thanked: 6,771 Times
Default

Though i like the idea of 4x4 as only vehicle, in practical sense its not that great an option for a person earning and living in city. Add to that as Vinod rightly mentioned, if family comes into the equation, the vehicle will automatically become the second car for long drives. 2 door itself is a big hindrance to convenience.

Moreover I dont think its fair to expect Scorpio kind of comfort from Thar. It will take some more time to convince a city slicker who drives a Honda, Hyundai, Fiat or an MUL vehicle to move away and opt for Thar.

Reliability and complex engine, i was comparing it to simple but robust and reliable Jap Gypsy in offroad scenario. I am a very big fan of M&M and agree that their vehicles are one of the best from Indian manufacturers. Still ECU and Sensors itself are good enough to create issues while offroading, these new age engines are expensive in case of an unfortunate incident and one will have to depend on A.S.S, since your local jeep garage might not be able to help you with even simple things like ECU check light coming ON. So Spitfire's points are also very valid.

If i take my case as example, i would like to retain (another 3 years atleast) the Swift for weekend city drives and long trips with family. Thar would be more of a daily office and back (since i stay close to office) + Offroad or adventure trips. For this i would prefer a robust, easy to own and a decently priced vehicle.

So with second option Gypsy i would have to keep it only for offroad trips, since its a petrol and a pain to park and maneuver in peak traffic. But still it will also perfectly fit my need and EMI's will be lot lesser. Even 2 k EMI over a period of 5 years is decent money that can be otherwise invested in modifying the Gypsy

Lots of if's and but's, i think we need to patiently wait and watch what M&M comes up with for this package.
Jaggu is offline  
Old 18th November 2009, 12:17   #93
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,043
Thanked: 13,496 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
P.s- Iam dropping Munnar off road plan only for the fact that i will have to drive 2000+ kms for about 36 kms offroad. If it was Thar/ Gurkha kind of a vehicle i wouldnt have minded, but with MM540 it is a little too much!
This is very true. All the offroad destinations from my place are minimum 200kms and more. When I prepare for any event, I am not worried about the actual offroading part, but I am worried about reaching there and coming back without breakdown. I am more fatigued in transit than in the offroad trail. Every road leading out of my place is bad most of the year.
Samurai is offline  
Old 18th November 2009, 12:18   #94
Senior - BHPian
 
narayan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 2,674
Thanked: 958 Times
Default

Will the Thar have a compliant ride quality on smooth roads, some level of interior equipment, comfort levels ?

in which case at around 7 lakhs and if with a hard top, I will definetly put my money on this vehicle.

i am not a 4x4 person , so i will love a lifestyle variant which is just 4x2 and no other off roading related mechanicals but some nice interiors with cmfortable seats
narayan is offline  
Old 18th November 2009, 12:22   #95
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,043
Thanked: 13,496 Times
Default

Narayan, this is soft top with no A/C and zero comforts. Besides, if you are OK with 2WD, you are fishing in the wrong waters. Just get a Bolero camper or Xenon 4x2 and be happy.
Samurai is offline  
Old 18th November 2009, 12:28   #96
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,493
Thanked: 6,771 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
This is very true. All the offroad destinations from my place are minimum 200kms and more. When I prepare for any event, I am not worried about the actual offroading part, but I am worried about reaching there and coming back without breakdown. I am more fatigued in transit than in the offroad trail. Every road leading out of my place is bad most of the year.
huh i thought you have grown over the reliability issue by now? why not a new engine, power steering and AC Samusan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Narayan, this is soft top with no A/C and zero comforts. Besides, if you are OK with 2WD, you are fishing in the wrong waters. Just get a Bolero camper or Xenon 4x2 and be happy.
Yup listen to the sword wielding warrior! Camper models will work perfectly for you. And this is exactly what i meant wrt Thar, which is better off/positioned correct as an offroader, instead of miserably trying and failing at test drive's as a lifestyle vehicle.
Jaggu is offline  
Old 18th November 2009, 12:48   #97
DRC
BHPian
 
DRC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cockpit
Posts: 906
Thanked: 41 Times
Default

I am not a offroader myself, but have been watching this section closely as ruggedized electronics is something which has a bit of relavance to my field of work.

Here is my observation. How may times have a scorpio CRDe has died on you? There are means and methods to make complex electronics work in hostile conditions and am sure manufacturers have taken care of them.

My petra has ECU mounted in the engine bay itself, it undergoes tremendous stress in terms of heat dust sluch water, acid fumes (just next to battery, etc.. even takes high pressure water jet during wash. But I dont see it failing that often.

We seem to enjoy being able to fix rather than reliability in true sense.

If such things have been taken care in Thar, and comes with CRDe engine, I thing its a best bet.
DRC is offline  
Old 18th November 2009, 15:03   #98
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,493
Thanked: 6,771 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC View Post
Here is my observation. How may times have a scorpio CRDe has died on you? There are means and methods to make complex electronics work in hostile conditions and am sure manufacturers have taken care of them.
Very valid post, i hope the electricals (sensors and wiring) are water proofed atleast, since in extreme offroading flooding of engine bay is a common scene. This is where the old school tractor engines score, if one can manage to keep the engine turning it will continue to putter on even when covered in slush.

Last edited by Jaggu : 18th November 2009 at 15:38.
Jaggu is offline  
Old 18th November 2009, 15:35   #99
Senior - BHPian
 
fazalaliadil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 2,022
Thanked: 623 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Lets take a realistic look at Thar, when compared to Gypsy:
- ive's
  • More complicated engine
  • Not time tested
  • Reliability, in comparison to Jap's
  • No hard top option
Jaggu,
The engine need not be complicated after all, it could be time tested and already run engine of any new generation Mahindra SUV's or better.
The reliability factor these days has to be good to survive in the market and the after sales warranties take care of that aspect. The Japs have good vehicles but they come with a price tag which will be much higher.
If THAR came with hard top only, I would take it off and get a soft top done.
A Jeep has to be at least convertible and 4X4, to be called a Jeep or else there are other hardtops for urban comfort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
P.s- Iam dropping Munnar off road plan only for the fact that i will have to drive 2000+ kms for about 36 kms offroad. If it was Thar/ Gurkha kind of a vehicle i wouldnt have minded, but with MM540 it is a little too much!
Vinod,
A very valid reason, these days we are meeting each other in interstate OTR's, getting to the base camp sometimes needs 100-2000kms of highway drives, which means we need a dependable, comfortable Jeep and a Jeep which can be a good long distance highway cruiser plus transform into an offroader the moment it reaches the camp without any time consuming mods once there. As I see in many pics. (NG) THAR has the potential to adapt to the above two terrains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Narayan, this is soft top with no A/C and zero comforts.
Samurai,
I think the A/C with soft top is evident in pics of the THAR on the forum.
Regards,

Last edited by Jaggu : 18th November 2009 at 15:39. Reason: Fixing quote
fazalaliadil is offline  
Old 18th November 2009, 15:50   #100
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,493
Thanked: 6,771 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
The Japs have good vehicles but they come with a price tag which will be much higher.

If THAR came with hard top only, I would take it off and get a soft top done.
A Jeep has to be at least convertible and 4X4, to be called a Jeep or else there are other hardtops for urban comfort
Jap's aka Gypsy uses same 1.3L engine from esteem era, which makes it cheaper also! The hard top version OTR price in Bangalore is 6.2 ish and softtop 5.85L

Also hard top concept maybe a -ive for die hard offroaders and even people like me, but leave that crowd out since numbers are not going to be great. Crowd that is left would love the comfort/safe storage of a hard top, especially since many are aiming to make Thar one and only vehicle. Hence i listed it.

I think you missed my perspective of the comparison, i was comparing it to Gypsy and Thar giving Gypsy a good competition, if priced right. I was looking it from a potential market perspective, for me i will buy it, if i like it and all this + and - wont work then

Last edited by Jaggu : 18th November 2009 at 15:53.
Jaggu is offline  
Old 19th November 2009, 09:24   #101
BHPian
 
offroad_maniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Thane-Mumbai
Posts: 453
Thanked: 35 Times
Default

Thar Has Scorpio Chassis (why is that :() ? does that mean it is different chasis than current Army NGCS? (Army NGCS Being more durable, tuff, tried & tested)

Why didn't Mahindra simply gave us Current NGCS MM550 with CRDe , name it as THAR (Civilian alias) & sell it @ under 6-6.5 lacs?

(I guess now Army will be using AXE & Strikers (Army Invader) as their assault vehicles, so why not continue with existing MM550 Plant setup for Civilians.. this could have been more efficient & would have reduced the final Price Tag & The launch period)

Dear Behram sir. too much of suspense & questions asked... sorry for that but couldnt resist asking...

Last edited by offroad_maniac : 19th November 2009 at 09:26.
offroad_maniac is offline  
Old 19th November 2009, 09:28   #102
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,043
Thanked: 13,496 Times
Default

I guess the MM550 NGCS chassis cannot accommodate CRDe engine.
Samurai is offline  
Old 19th November 2009, 09:58   #103
Senior - BHPian
 
maddy42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Coorg
Posts: 1,817
Thanked: 426 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default

Well i just believe that Mahindra should target people who would need this as their first car. Broadens their market alot and like mentioned before stop the Major and there you get Thars market. A nice hardtop would be great but not the ones used by Govt jeeps with metal hardtop as that surely would kill the existing market
maddy42 is offline  
Old 19th November 2009, 11:10   #104
Senior - BHPian
 
fazalaliadil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 2,022
Thanked: 623 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by offroad_maniac View Post
Thar Has Scorpio Chassis (why is that :() ? does that mean it is different chasis than current Army NGCS? (Army NGCS Being more durable, tuff, tried & tested)
One thing, when the vehicle is going through a technological evolution in the NG, engine why not the entire chassis and suspension that is far superior to the existing 540/ 550 chassis?
Another, the crde engine compatibility factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddy42 View Post
Well i just believe that Mahindra should target people who would need this as their first car. Broadens their market alot and like mentioned before stop the Major and there you get Thars market. A nice hardtop would be great but not the ones used by Govt jeeps with metal hardtop as that surely would kill the existing market
The THAR will never be a mass produced vehicle as it will lack the customer base, even if Mahindra targets limited clients, it has the required base to put a thousand vehicles into phased production for on an all India requirement. Marketing it is the key to success like any other product.
A hard top and soft top version is a possible and practical option.
Regards,

Last edited by fazalaliadil : 19th November 2009 at 11:11.
fazalaliadil is offline  
Old 19th November 2009, 12:17   #105
Senior - BHPian
 
narayan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 2,674
Thanked: 958 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Narayan, this is soft top with no A/C and zero comforts. Besides, if you are OK with 2WD, you are fishing in the wrong waters. Just get a Bolero camper or Xenon 4x2 and be happy.
problem is the above two are too big and only Xenon looks a bit contemporary

the strong point of the Thar is the looks.

going by the various posts i seriously doubt M&M can position it in any which ways and make decent numbers.
narayan is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing Aditya 4x4 Vehicles 218 23rd July 2015 13:25
SCOOP Pics : Peugeot (207, 508) spotted testing on the MH Expressway Hammer & Anvil The Indian Car Scene 174 11th March 2013 12:37
SCOOP! All New 3rd Gen Honda City Caught Testing EDIT : Interior pics on Pg. 39 awarty The Indian Car Scene 913 25th September 2008 20:27
SCOOP : Caught Testing-The New Corolla aravindwarrier The Indian Car Scene 147 12th August 2008 18:50
Mitsubishi Pick-Up caught testing on Expressway! Gordon The Indian Car Scene 19 10th February 2006 19:54


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 22:44.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks