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Old 8th May 2010, 23:28   #1546
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Originally Posted by star_aqua View Post
DKG, it looks like Mr. BD & Spike will land up in Hyd with the THAR very soon(may be next week?)
Is the Thar heading over? I have no clue !! I hope it does because I've lined up a fabulous offroad site to test it.

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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
The way I see it is that THAR is going to be a stepping stone for a lot of newbie off-roaders (including me) who will learn the tricks of the trade on this before graduating to some serious off-roaders like the MM550/CJ3B etc. I see a good scope for co-existence of both the groups (newbie & matured).
Aniruddha the frustration of a few people here is that when the Thar was a parts bin approach why not opt for stuff which already exists, making it the ideal offroader everyone wanted in the wishlist. The only contention of people like Arka and Headers (if I understood them correctly) is when M&M had stuff off the shelf to slot into the Thar easily why was FFRA and rigid axle passed over. Actually their disappointment is not entirely unjustified. There was a lot of discussion about an ideal offroader and the wishlist was compiled. They just feel that when the packaging was to be governed by a different set of rules why the wishlist for a ideal offroader.

In all fairness they do have a point. I am sure M&M will deliver to their expectations provided their tribe increases. And just for that one reason I welcome the Thar in its present guise. As more than any other vehicle in India this will encourage more and more people to venture offroad for the first time as you rightly said. It will grow the tribe. Although M&M may not exactly view this as a volume seller my hunch is if they price it competively it just might open an entirely new market

The Thar should be released in its present config. For in this guise it stands its best chance to find new homes. I am slightly concerned about the dated 540 look. The styling department could have given that same body some finishing touches that make it look drop dead gorgeous. But no issues as many owners will dress it up right (you can count on the Hyderabad Jeepers to do that) and believe me you will see some outstanding styling mods to this car. M&M will learn quite a bit from that.

Last edited by DKG : 8th May 2010 at 23:29.
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Old 9th May 2010, 00:34   #1547
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Just one questions
Have you designed or built a car?
Yes, I have. Check here: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...-totalled.html

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
5) If Engineering is not Science, I am lost here.
Let an engineer help you with you confusion. Engineering is the process of applying scientific knowledge to create something useful.
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Old 9th May 2010, 08:43   #1548
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Yes, I have. Check here: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...-totalled.html

Let an engineer help you with you confusion. Engineering is the process of applying scientific knowledge to create something useful.
Samurai, that was a good one

I remember these golden words told by my professor during my early days in college, he said "Engineering is an art of creating goods for the service of mankind, by using simple techniques of science and technology". Words of wisdom i must say.

Spike
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Old 9th May 2010, 11:44   #1549
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
His passion is designing cars, not driving them. He has also designed parts for submarines in his early days, but he has never driven one.

"I have a close friend who has designed parts for cars of GM and Ford in Detroit, but he still drives his old Indica since 7-8 years. He is not at all interested in cars. Yet, he can design a FFRA better than any expert mechanic. You just have to tell him the intended usage or the abuse it needs to take. "
Your words Samurai-san not mine.

This is not about your friend in any case, it was just an example to show how engineering is now more about numbers and number-crunching and less about passion, innovation and ingenuity.

Quite frankly IMO, there's more passion and innovation in a backyard-made 'Jugaad' than in most vehicles you see on the street. (Deliberately not naming any manufacturers or models).

Quote:
Let an engineer help you with you confusion. Engineering is the process of applying scientific knowledge to create something useful.
And in this case, the something useful is already there, but the engineer is ignoring Scientific principles in favor of Economic principles.

Correct?

Last edited by tsk1979 : 9th May 2010 at 12:25.
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Old 9th May 2010, 14:46   #1550
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Originally Posted by '72 Bullet View Post
engineering is now more about numbers and number-crunching and less about passion, innovation and ingenuity.

Quite frankly IMO, there's more passion and innovation in a backyard-made 'Jugaad' than in most vehicles you see on the street. (Deliberately not naming any manufacturers or models).
its more likely i will introduce bug if i am not interested in what i am doing. But i will not accept it as bug because i had designed it based on your inputs. other inputs i never thought of because you did not specify it. This is quite common in many industries. If i were more interested in what i am doing and how it is going to serve the end user and if i think being in the position of a end user, i will certainly consider other inputs as implicit requirements.
Most OEMs try to be on safer side by considering only proven design. As the new design will take more time in testing and it will prolong the process and it is impossible to cover all types of test cases. An end user will be the ultimate tester who may come up with a problem after many years or so.
In such cases you or i may take it to local mechanics who really sometime come up with their ingenious idea in fixing it. This will not be reported to the OEM. so they are not worried about it.

But there are few OEMs in india which arranges a meet by calling all local mechanics/electricians whom we call jugaad, and collects all the information of what kind of problems did they come across and how they solved it.
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Old 9th May 2010, 21:17   #1551
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Default Please STOP the Thar bashing

My humble request to everyone to stop blaming some fellow BHPians or Manufacturer like that.

Whoever is thinking that Thar is not a right jeep.. get over it.. time to move ahead. No one's gonna change the specs now.

The wishlist thread was started to find out the response for the new jeep. So new 4X4 products are coming.
Else we only had options of Army surplus.

Keep faith in people who are here amongst us, who have made ourself a part of something new & who are here to help us whnever the need arises.
Whats the point in blaming them & asking questions repeatedly. Its an open forum & replying/helping/answering is all dependent on the members so forcing is not the right way.

For those who thinks Thar is not the right jeep for them.. please wait.
Who knows what will be the next big thing from M&M's store?

( Excuse me if anyone is offended)

Last edited by offroad_maniac : 9th May 2010 at 21:19.
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Old 10th May 2010, 00:28   #1552
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Originally Posted by offroad_maniac View Post
My humble request to everyone to stop blaming some fellow BHPians or Manufacturer like that.

Whoever is thinking that Thar is not a right jeep.. get over it.. time to move ahead. No one's gonna change the specs now.

The wishlist thread was started to find out the response for the new jeep. So new 4X4 products are coming.
Else we only had options of Army surplus.

Keep faith in people who are here amongst us, who have made ourself a part of something new & who are here to help us whnever the need arises.
Whats the point in blaming them & asking questions repeatedly. Its an open forum & replying/helping/answering is all dependent on the members so forcing is not the right way.

For those who thinks Thar is not the right jeep for them.. please wait.
Who knows what will be the next big thing from M&M's store?

( Excuse me if anyone is offended)
yeah in a way you are saying the right things.

Old body with a new engine!

thats what we do with ex-army MM550 (Old body, refurbished engine)

thats what Mayapuri do with ex-army vehicles (Old body, outsourced engine)

thats what Dabwali do with ex-army vehicles (Old body with outsourced engine)

now thats what MM is doing with MM540! (Old body, re-worked NEF engine).

nothing personal, its purely busines!
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Old 10th May 2010, 00:32   #1553
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Guys:

I agree completely with Off Road Maniac here. No amount of brow beating Mahindra is going to change anything in the near term. So if you want a Mahindra CJ clone, there are three options:

1)Thar from Mahindra
2) Rebuild from Mayapuri
3) Wait for Mr. Behram to start the "Refreshed Thar with Buck Tooth Wish List"..
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Old 10th May 2010, 06:41   #1554
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I loved the discussions going on. Its a healthy discussion going on.
Through the last few posts I have learnt:
1. What exactly "Engineering" is?! And some nice quotes from Bhpian's teachers.
2. Who is an "Engineer"?
3. Some technical terms like FFRA and why they are so important!
4. How CMVR rules restrict the car manufacturers from doing what they want.
5. Vehicle requirements of people in areas like Chikamagalur.

I am enjoying learning all these things from this thread.
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Old 10th May 2010, 09:49   #1555
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Originally Posted by Muzungu View Post
....
thats what we do with ex-army MM550 (Old body, refurbished engine)
thats what Mayapuri do with ex-army vehicles (Old body, outsourced engine)
thats what Dabwali do with ex-army vehicles (Old body with outsourced engine)
now thats what MM is doing with MM540! (Old body, re-worked NEF engine).
....nothing personal, its purely busines!
I think there are some differences between a brand new, latest generation of engine from the company and refurbished/outsourced engine! And if someone compares the quality of Mayapuri or Dabwali or a local garage with something coming brand new from the company, that will not be a very wise thing to do...! And i guess one of the fascinations for the 540/550 is their typical look.So using the so called 'old body' is not a bad thing, at least for people who prefer this type of appearance from a jeep compared to what is done in mayapuri or dabwali!!
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Old 10th May 2010, 10:24   #1556
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Yes, I have. Check here: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...-totalled.html

Let an engineer help you with you confusion. Engineering is the process of applying scientific knowledge to create something useful.
Hi Samurai,

I think the M&M R&D Team, have missed you.

You are a genius.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 10th May 2010, 12:23   #1557
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Originally Posted by Muzungu View Post
Old body with a new engine!

thats what we do with ex-army MM550 (Old body, refurbished engine)

thats what Mayapuri do with ex-army vehicles (Old body, outsourced engine)

thats what Dabwali do with ex-army vehicles (Old body with outsourced engine)

now thats what MM is doing with MM540! (Old body, re-worked NEF engine).

nothing personal, its purely busines!

LOL, now M&M have jumped into the tried and tested business model - old body and new engine.

So, guys, any predictions on the numbers game:

How many THARs a month will it sell ? - 10K, 5K, 2K, 1K or less

Some inputs from the forum would be helpful

I'm talking ex-factory here!
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Old 10th May 2010, 12:37   #1558
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
LOL, now M&M have jumped into the tried and tested business model - old body and new engine.

So, guys, any predictions on the numbers game:

How many THARs a month will it sell ? - 10K, 5K, 2K, 1K or less

Some inputs from the forum would be helpful

I'm talking ex-factory here!
I think the numbers would be similar to Bolero VLX +/- 10%
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Old 10th May 2010, 12:45   #1559
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Would the Thar be pitched to Army? Then the numbers would go a lot higher - which translates to M&M wont bother to make it a full fledged Offroading machine!!
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Old 10th May 2010, 12:47   #1560
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Yes, I have. Check here: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...-totalled.html

Let an engineer help you with you confusion. Engineering is the process of applying scientific knowledge to create something useful.

Hi Samurai,

This is how the Artisans do it.

They are SWEET and Explosive!!!!!

Regards,

Arka

Pics & Models Courtesy Anjan Cariappa
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