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Old 9th January 2010, 10:41   #241
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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
here is another link i just recieved today from M&M admin.

Mahindra Thar
Lol, infact this is the link from where i got the thar website!

coming to the thar,

200 mm of GC seems impressive & also 247NM of torque at 1800 RPM is good enough, though extreme off roaders can give a better opinion.

also, as i have seen in the off road section of T-BHP, off roaders needed a manual 4x4 shifter & not the complex electronic shifter, thats excatly what mahindra has offered.

with a kerb weight of 1.7 tons, it definitely is heavy though.

also, will the off roaders prefer a complex CRDe engine under the hood?

the best part is thar does not have the ugly family grille of the mahindra seen on the gio, xylo & even their new navistar buses!!! thank god.

i expect mahindra to price this on the higher side which is around 6 lakhs.
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Old 9th January 2010, 10:53   #242
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Offroading entails a heavy dose of wear and tear in your vehicle and any offroader, age and experience notwithstanding, would like his vehicle to be up and ready for the next OTR with the minimum amount of fuss and time spent in garages.

I have just spent the past six months diligently sorting out all the issues in my CJ3B and now when its almost as good as new I realise something that really makes me wonder about some basic logic in this whole exercise.

It has taken me months to source OE parts for the CJ3B. Some parts are simply not available anymore.

Now what does that mean for me with the intention of using this in OTR's? Everytime the CJ3B wears out something I have to spend months hunting for the replacement ! Which is absurd. The majority of people I know use old used parts to keep their Jeeps running and believe me they drive like crap. Most who struggle to maintain their Jeeps in immaculate condition are now too wary of damaging/wearing them during OTR's

What is the value of an offroader when you can't service it at will and fix issues within days? Zero !

Bottomline is an offroader MUST have easy parts availablity, must be affordable as the life of the vehicle will see many replacement parts going in and should be serviceable across the country at garages with some standards.

As I see it the only real option for serious offroaders will be the Thar from Mahindra and the Gypsy from MUL

For all the others (me included) who have spent months to source parts for their Jeeps and restored them to a high mechanical standard, congratulations on a well restored "vintage car" which no doubt will give you years of pleasure provided you don't roger it offroad !

I am personally delighted M&M is considering releasing the Thar in India and like Fazal said enable a major boost to the offroading scene in India

My sincere advise to all who can afford a new car under 7 lacs. Don't waste your time and energy buying the crap you get from army disposals and waste precious time sourcing hard to find parts with a dream of making yourself a working offroader.

Just buy the Thar.
+! to that write up DKG. im sure there will be plenty of hardcore mud sluggers in TBhp to pick up the THAR as and when its launched.

we might have a dedicated thread just THAR bought, THAR in OTRs, THAR modifications, THAR this and THAR that!
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Old 9th January 2010, 10:56   #243
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i hope this link has not been shared here-
:: Welcome to Mahindra Thar ::
Thanks for the link man. This has not been posted before. Looks like the actual vehicle looks like regular MM540. But any Jeeper will know by looking at the front diff that it is a Thar.

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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post

Umm..mm, I may have missed it in all of these posts...does this new Thar have LSD or locker?
No mention about LSD or Lockers so far in the specs. I think it will be an after market option if anything at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post

200 mm of GC seems impressive & also 247NM of torque at 1800 RPM is good enough, though extreme off roaders can give a better opinion.
200 mm of GC is great. But if you upgrade to 7.50x16 or 235/85/16 (this is the size on the autoshow Thar) or 31x10.15 tires the GC can be bumped upto 235 mm (army spec mm550).

I would have preferred if they retuned the ECU to provide torque from about 1500 rpm. This will be more helpful in extreme off-roading situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
also, as i have seen in the off road section of T-BHP, off roaders needed a manual 4x4 shifter & not the complex electronic shifter, thats excatly what mahindra has offered.
I am glad for two reasons. One is that it makes the Thar Transfer case more reliable.Secondly I plan to buy the neccesary parts from Thar to convert my Scorpio 4x4 into a manual transfer case. The gearbox and tcase are shared so it should be a matter of sourcing the t-caes cover and lever assembly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
also, will the off roaders prefer a complex CRDe engine under the hood?
I think most of us would have preferred a sturdy Turbo DI or Turbo IDI engine without Common Rail similar to the XD3P Turbo engine that was offered in South Africa. However, given that Mahindra has no good (i.e non-agricultural) Turbo DI or Turbo IDI engines and given the emission issues with Turbo DI engines, CRDe maybe the only choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
the best part is thar does not have the ugly family grille of the mahindra seen on the gio, xylo & even their new navistar buses!!! thank god.
Word is that Behram has kept a bunch of dobermans outside the Thar R&D center to keep the Mahindra designer away. He has even put a picture of Dilip Chabriba outside to scare them. DC is the only person that Mahindra designer fears as only DC can screw up a Xylo and make it any worse looking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
i expect mahindra to price this on the higher side which is around 6 lakhs.
Realistically you need to add about a lakh to the price of a 4WD Major/Invader to get a hint of the price of the Thar.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 9th January 2010 at 11:08.
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Old 9th January 2010, 10:57   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
Lol, infact this is the link from where i got the thar website!

coming to the thar,

200 mm of GC seems impressive & also 247NM of torque at 1800 RPM is good enough, though extreme off roaders can give a better opinion.

also, as i have seen in the off road section of T-BHP, off roaders needed a manual 4x4 shifter & not the complex electronic shifter, thats excatly what mahindra has offered.

with a kerb weight of 1.7 tons, it definitely is heavy though.

also, will the off roaders prefer a complex CRDe engine under the hood?

the best part is thar does not have the ugly family grille of the mahindra seen on the gio, xylo & even their new navistar buses!!! thank god.

i expect mahindra to price this on the higher side which is around 6 lakhs.[/
everybody is thanking god (and Mr.Behram) for the THAR not having the new M&M silver tooth!

your price expectation is very much on the affordable side.

Last edited by v12 : 9th January 2010 at 11:05.
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Old 9th January 2010, 11:40   #245
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Now what does that mean for me with the intention of using this in OTR's? Everytime the CJ3B wears out something I have to spend months hunting for the replacement ! Which is absurd. The majority of people I know use old used parts to keep their Jeeps running and believe me they drive like crap. Most who struggle to maintain their Jeeps in immaculate condition are now too wary of damaging/wearing them during OTR's

What is the value of an offroader when you can't service it at will and fix issues within days? Zero !
I couldn't have said it better. I have had many people tell me to restore the Jeep to the original looks (steel rims, NDMS, glossy paint, silent block bush, etc), and I am not interested. I own the Jeep purely to offroad and not just to look at it.

Ok, I have an awesome offroading SWB, but the practicality of taking it on long trips to distant OTRs is not even worth talking about. I am always more worried about the journey than the event itself. If I didn't have a secure place to park it, I would have worried about that too.

Look at the simple joys of owning a Thar... Disc brakes and and and Hand brakes... I am in tears now. :'-)



This image is giving me goosebumps. Ok, I don't even need the removable top, fixed top would do for me. I mean really, this is all I need as customisation, rest I can manage on my own. Who can give us this simple hard top?
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Old 9th January 2010, 11:54   #246
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Samurai, there is place in Cochin where they do a pretty good job for hard tops.
So looks like one Thar is finding a home.
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Old 9th January 2010, 12:08   #247
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I have been following thar for the last couple of weeks. The more I read about it the more I want to own it. Looks like the classic bug has bitten me big time. Thar after the Bullet Classic 500

The car looks beautiful. As a newbie to 4x4 and for my first car (which I am buying on my own) I would pick a Thar any day. I would love to have removable hard top as an option. Open top for nice weather. Hard top for rainy weather.

The specs looks good with AC and PS to drive in the city as well. 1+1 configuration is nice. But will there be any way to put additional seats. The thar adventure shows 1+3.
I will not comment much on the tech specs, well I have no clue to comment also.

Good work Mahindra and Mr. Behram. Great to see user feedback playing a critical role in the vehicle design. For all the oldies , a new breed will surely join. Be prepared
Thar is surely coming at the right time too. To the next revolution of offroading in India
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Old 9th January 2010, 12:15   #248
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Found this website :: Welcome to Mahindra Thar ::

And is this what we are getting?
Name:  4243509843_ecb7bd39e6_o.jpg
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Size:  42.8 KB

Originated from here
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EDIT: Just saw that link is already posted

Specifications:

Engine NEF CRDe Turbocharged intercooled, Euro IV 2498 CC
Capacity
Bore x Stroke 94 x 90 m.m.
Power 105 H.P.@3800 R.P.M
Torque 247NM@1800-2000R.P.M.


Transmission
Transfer Case 5 speed – Manual
Borg Warner – Manual Shift
2 Speed gear reduction - High 1.0:1 Low 2.48:1
Axle
Front Full Floating Hypoid Ratio 4.3:1,
Capacity: 1100 kg

Rear Semi-Floating Hypoid Ratio 4.3:1,
Capacity: 1700 kg

Hub Lock Auto

Minimum Turing Radius 5.25 m
Wheelbase 2430 mm

Suspension Independent front suspension with Torsion bar and stabilizer bar
Rear Semi elliptical leaf springs

Ground Clearance 200 mm
Approach angle 46o
Departure angle 30o
Ramp over angle 15o

Brakes
Front Disc & caliper
Rear Drums

Tyres P 235/70 R 16 Tubeless Tyres
Wheels 6.5 J X 16

Dimensions
Front Track 1445 mm
Rear Track 1346 mm
Overall Length 3920 mm
Wheel Base 2430 mm
Overall Height 1930 mm
Overall Width 1710 mm

Curb Weight
1750 Kgs
Seating Capacity 1 +1 seater
Colours
Arctic White
Mist Silver
Black
ToreadorRed

Last edited by Jaggu : 9th January 2010 at 12:25.
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Old 9th January 2010, 12:24   #249
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Oops, the following page says hub locks are auto. I rather have no hub locks at all. Have seen them failing before in the middle of the OTR.

:: Welcome to Mahindra Thar ::

The low ratio is given 2.48 and 2.68 in specs and features page respectively. Any time better than the 277 ratio mentioned in the other site. What is the right figure?

Last edited by Samurai : 9th January 2010 at 12:28.
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Old 9th January 2010, 12:36   #250
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by the way if the website is already up, does it mean the launch is close by??

I hope it is priced less than 5.5 lakhs (any chance of this ), else I will have to stretch my budget. By the way I was looking at auction sites and all. I realized that the time I would spend on searching for the product and spares made me realize how convenient it is to buy a product off the shelf. Time and fun take a big hit atleast for me. And i guess there are scores of people in the market right now who are in my boat

If one has time and more importantly patience, I guess restoring a jeep will be fun
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Old 9th January 2010, 13:03   #251
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Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Don't be surprised should Thar redefine Indian off-roading to a new level never before seen, don't be surprised if other manufacturers join the race, don't be further surprised when wannabe's too join the 4X4 circuit just to be there with their newly acquired machines.
Hi Fazal,

Please explain as to how will it redefine the Indian OTR Scene and what new level will it take things too?

A few things I noticed.

Its Front Axle is IFS, similar rating as a CJ3B/MM540 closed Knuckle. (1100kgs, I hope its a Dana 44 at least).

If the Front is Open, then forget a traction device in the front, its IFS.

The Rear Axle is One Piece Semi-Floating Dana 44 with 30 Spline.

And a Rack & Pinion steering.

The only exciting things is, wannabe off-roaders will be able to reach the OTR spots faster and will no longer complain about the steering being vague.

Yes, before I get flamed its got an XD3P which has been CRDe-d, and is powerful.

That is good news for the Pete's/Bully Dog ECU re-map/piggy back types, we'll soon hear of a 500BHP Thar running on Stock Semi-Floating Axles and doing things, I could; only in my dreams. (Meet up with Dirty_Dan and accompany him on a Himalayan Excursion of self discovery, pain, preventive maintenance & CRDe performance)

If power was everything, then we wouldn't even require a 4WD, the key to 4WD is traction, in that dept. the Thar is still just another Mahindra e.g open differentials. (LSD has stopped giving me a high, need something more potent)

BHP per ton is 63 BHP per tonne. 105bhp/1700kgs (1.7tonnes)= 63 BHP per tonne. (MM550XD is 58 BHP per tonne)

Torque to weight Index (in pounds) = 3740lbs/175ft.lbs = 21 (that is CJ3B range)

So what do we actually get a Light-Weight BOLERO Storm 4x4, with Rack & Pinion Steering and No "Modern" gizmos like TCS/ABS/EBD/LSD/Diff-Locks.

Regards,

Arka

PS - I sincerely hope it go into production, will need those engines for the post 2004 NGCS MM550XD's
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Old 9th January 2010, 13:45   #252
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^^^ But you get everything new off the shelf..
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Old 9th January 2010, 13:46   #253
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
The Rear Axle is One Piece Semi-Floating Dana 44 with 30 Spline.
Now, doesn't that open up lots of possibilities for full diff locks from OX, ARB, Powertrax...?

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
The only exciting things is, wannabe off-roaders will be able to reach the OTR spots faster and will no longer complain about the steering being vague.
Just wannabe offroader? Even current offroaders can reach the event faster. Next time I wouldn't think too much about driving to Munnar.

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
That is good news for the Pete's/Bully Dog ECU re-map/piggy back types, we'll soon hear of a 500BHP Thar running on Stock Semi-Floating Axles
Ok, such experiments are inevitable. Just stay out of their way in the OTRs. Let's hope they will at least upgrade to full floating, else we have to tow them home.

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If power was everything, then we wouldn't even require a 4WD, the key to 4WD is traction, in that dept. the Thar is still just another Mahindra e.g open differentials.
Ok, this is one area I am concerned about. Generally it is the Scorpios that shred the terrain into bits by revving too hard at every incline. They rarely try the crawl method of Jeeps or momentum method of Gypsies. They just rely on the power bit too much. Now every Thar will do the same in the hands of new gen offroaders who start their OTR life with Thar.
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Old 9th January 2010, 14:12   #254
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My concern is about the weight. At 1700 kgs it will need tyres with nails to provide traction. Even diff locks won't help. Ultimately a differential becomes useless locked or unlocked when there is no traction. In western ghat slushy hill country I wonder how it will do. An engineer would refer to this as gradeability issues

I am seriously thinking about going ahead with my slush monkey project

Last edited by DKG : 9th January 2010 at 14:30.
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Old 9th January 2010, 14:18   #255
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Now, doesn't that open up lots of possibilities for full diff locks from OX, ARB, Powertrax...?

Just wannabe offroader? Even current offroaders can reach the event faster. Next time I wouldn't think too much about driving to Munnar.

Ok, such experiments are inevitable. Just stay out of their way in the OTRs. Let's hope they will at least upgrade to full floating, else we have to tow them home.

Ok, this is one area I am concerned about. Generally it is the Scorpios that shred the terrain into bits by revving too hard at every incline. They rarely try the crawl method of Jeeps or momentum method of Gypsies. They just rely on the power bit too much. Now every Thar will do the same in the hands of new gen offroaders who start their OTR life with Thar.
Hi Sharath,

You think Traction, is a problem, I think, safety is the issue here, what if the Rear Axle breaks while climbing? In a FFRA atleast the wheel won't fly out. And, this vehicle is twice as powerful & Torquey as what M&M was offering in a similar package, with FFRA e.g NGCS MM550XD.

The JEEPs & Gypsy's use the same technique, just that the Gypsy has higher gearing and peak torque at higher revs, it looks like they are relying on "momentum".

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by ex670c : 9th January 2010 at 14:20.
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