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Old 9th January 2010, 16:16   #256
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Offroading entails a heavy dose of wear and tear in your vehicle and any offroader, age and experience notwithstanding, would like his vehicle to be up and ready for the next OTR with the minimum amount of fuss and time spent in garages.

I have just spent the past six months diligently sorting out all the issues in my CJ3B and now when its almost as good as new I realise something that really makes me wonder about some basic logic in this whole exercise.

It has taken me months to source OE parts for the CJ3B. Some parts are simply not available anymore.

Now what does that mean for me with the intention of using this in OTR's? Everytime the CJ3B wears out something I have to spend months hunting for the replacement ! Which is absurd. The majority of people I know use old used parts to keep their Jeeps running and believe me they drive like crap. Most who struggle to maintain their Jeeps in immaculate condition are now too wary of damaging/wearing them during OTR's

What is the value of an offroader when you can't service it at will and fix issues within days? Zero !
Good post DKG! That's precisely the reason that I don't bother too much about the aesthetics of my Jeep. She has rust, dents, bruises and even a love bite from Mother Nature (deep dent on the RHS from a tree). I like how she looks....totally rough & tough. Plus, even if I give her a paint job and make her all shiny, it'll only be a matter of time before she looks battle scarred again.

The only work I perform on my Jeep is fix whats broken (mechanically), and what affects her functionality.

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My sincere advise to all who can afford a new car under 7 lacs. Don't waste your time and energy buying the crap you get from army disposals and waste precious time sourcing hard to find parts with a dream of making yourself a working offroader.

Just buy the Thar.
Wholeheartedly agreed! Plus, if you bring resale, peace of the mind and time saved (hunting for parts etc.), the Thar will probably work out cheaper than an Army refurbishment job.
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Old 9th January 2010, 16:33   #257
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@Arka:

I agree with your points about the potential disadvantages of the Thar to an NGCS MM550XD. But for hard core off-roaders the buy used and build exists. But I think there is a large number of potential off-roaders out there who will want to get their feet wet, if they can get something new/reliable off the shelf. Many of them may not have the resource/knowledge/contact to build up an MM550 from scratch.


My only wish with the Thar is that they could have gone for Solid axles with coil springs front and back and also a FFRA, but I guess, I'll take what ever I can get. As the saying goes, beggars can't be choosers :-). If you look at the new 4WD in the 6 lakh range available in India, Thar seems to be the best compromise.
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Old 9th January 2010, 16:43   #258
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
My concern is about the weight. At 1700 kgs it will need tyres with nails to provide traction.
Hmm, I don't understand this part. The weight will aid the traction, why do you say otherwise?
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Old 9th January 2010, 17:08   #259
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Hmm, I don't understand this part. The weight will aid the traction, why do you say otherwise?
+1.
This is also why F1,WRC, supercars have aerodynamic wings to increase weight as the speed increases.
Increased weight = Increased traction...right until a very high threshold point where grip starts tapering down.

DKG, where do you get your theory from?
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Old 9th January 2010, 18:27   #260
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They rarely try the crawl method of Jeeps or momentum method of Gypsies.
Not every obstacle is overcome by momentum Sir!

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My concern is about the weight. At 1700 kgs it will need tyres with nails to provide traction. Even diff locks won't help.
Its not all that Bad, 1700 kgs aint too heavy and it sounds reasonable for the engine power.

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Sharath,

You think Traction, is a problem, I think, safety is the issue here, what if the Rear Axle breaks while climbing? In a FFRA atleast the wheel won't fly out. And, this vehicle is twice as powerful & Torquey as what M&M was offering in a similar package, with FFRA e.g NGCS MM550XD.
The Storm has factory fitted FFRA - so i tend to believe that the Thar will have FFRA too.

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The JEEPs & Gypsy's use the same technique, just that the Gypsy has higher gearing and peak torque at higher revs, it looks like they are relying on "momentum".
Correct - it appears that gypsies on momentum. There are many areas where the gypsy looks more glamorous than a 540, but ...! OK OK one cannot compare an apple to an orange!!


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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
@Arka:

My only wish with the Thar is that they could have gone for Solid axles with coil springs front and back and also a FFRA,


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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
+1.
This is also why F1,WRC, supercars have aerodynamic wings to increase weight as the speed increases.
Increased weight = Increased traction...right until a very high threshold point where grip starts tapering down.

DKG, where do you get your theory from?
Nitrous, weight does matter. I get my theory from 2 decades of driving!

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Hmm, I don't understand this part. The weight will aid the traction, why do you say otherwise?
Not all the time Sharat. It only helps in certain situations.

cheers
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Old 9th January 2010, 18:35   #261
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Not every obstacle is overcome by momentum Sir!
Oh really, you are telling this to a Jeeper?

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Originally Posted by headers View Post
The Storm has factory fitted FFRA - so i tend to believe that the Thar will have FFRA too.
Stock Thar comes with SFRA, if we can exchange that with Storm FFRA, nothing like it.

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Not every obstacle is overcome by momentum Sir!
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Not all the time Sharat. It only helps in certain situations.
Vikram, it is common sense that anything doesn't apply all the time. I was talking about the case when it does.

Next time you make any comment, I am going to say it doesn't apply all the time.
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Old 9th January 2010, 19:13   #262
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Hi Fazal,

Please explain as to how will it redefine the Indian OTR Scene and what new level will it take things too?
Arka,
There are many youngsters who have overflowing funds, and would die to be a part of the macho 4X4, off-roading and OTR events.
Now, this new breed doesn't have the time, patience, know how, technical support to build a true off-roader like we do.
Buying an off the shelf Thar and making it a bling Jeep will be their prerogative.
The increase in the number of 4X4's(Thar) will translate into more number of OTR's and clubs being founded liker a Thar owners Club and so on.
Mahindra think tank will be in overdrive to promote their new launch in the form of Mahindra Great Escape's and will go levels higher than that.
Where else can newbies showoff their newly acquired passion and machines, than an outdoor event?
It will be a classic case of having tools without the knowledge to use them,
Watch out for this breed for they will be born.
The newer levels, could be in form of better records on track if the Thar is handled by a person with the right skills as the machine lacks nothing and is extremely superior to its M&M predecessors and other brands.
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Originally Posted by indian21r View Post
I hope it is priced less than 5.5 lakhs (any chance of this ), else I will have to stretch my budget.
Indian21r,
When a Major sells at around 5L, how can you expect Thar to sell for 50K extra? If you have an idea of the giant leap in technology the Thar has taken you would definitely start working on stretching your budget.
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
My concern is about the weight. At 1700 kgs it will need tyres with nails to provide traction. Even diff locks won't help. Ultimately a differential becomes useless locked or unlocked when there is no traction. In western ghat slushy hill country I wonder how it will do. An engineer would refer to this as gradeability issues
Deepak,
MM 550 DP 4WD, Gross vehicle weight: 2030 kg.
source: Welcome to Mahindra and Mahindra

Actually, the weight should act as an advantage here. This high powered, fast accelerating engine needs weight for stability. See it in this perspective, crde drives Xylo or Scorpio which are heavier, effortlessly. Deep lugged tyres like the army or mudzilla's will take care of slush, diff locks will only be a very valuable bonus. Weight will help in generating traction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
The weight will aid the traction, why do you say otherwise?
Samurai,
The T-70 battle tank weighs 40 tonnes and has the required power to move it. It is due to its weight that it can be taken underwater and be driven on a lake bed in very heavy silt and sludgy conditions. Your theory of weight aids traction is very correct.
Weight in this case will only help as the crde engine has the torque and power to easily drive it.
Regards,

Last edited by fazalaliadil : 9th January 2010 at 19:28.
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Old 9th January 2010, 19:16   #263
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Im sure Mayapuri/Dabwali manufacturers must have seen the photos of THAR somewhere or must have visited autpexpo2010.

so do we get to see 'the invasion of the clones' by home made versions of THAR which will be sold at a premium but much less than 'our' THAR?
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Old 9th January 2010, 19:34   #264
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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
Im sure Mayapuri/Dabwali manufacturers must have seen the photos of THAR somewhere or must have visited autpexpo2010.

so do we get to see 'the invasion of the clones' by home made versions of THAR which will be sold at a premium but much less than 'our' THAR?
Parm,
They may make cosmetic clones of Thar, but how will they match up to the technology? The chassis is a hybrid of Scorpio/ Bolero cross which cannot be procured in the market, likewise the engine and transmission.
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Old 9th January 2010, 20:16   #265
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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
Im sure Mayapuri/Dabwali manufacturers must have seen the photos of THAR somewhere or must have visited autpexpo2010.

so do we get to see 'the invasion of the clones' by home made versions of THAR which will be sold at a premium but much less than 'our' THAR?
Doubt the dabwali brigade will take much notice, they are trapped in a cycle of building rubbish. Plus most these guys do not get out much, showed one such guy who makes these bling jeeps a photo of the Legend and he told me it was a USA Wrangler.
Quote:
The chassis is a hybrid of Scorpio/ Bolero cross which cannot be procured in the market, likewise the engine and transmission.
The dabwali customer is different from a Thar customer. He wants something with a Jeep tub but a Nissan or Toyota engine, 2wd and very good average. Torque etc are not areas which are important to them but average is.

Last edited by bigman : 9th January 2010 at 20:19.
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Old 9th January 2010, 22:03   #266
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White should look amazing
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Old 9th January 2010, 23:27   #267
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Dear all - thank you very much for all your comments. I have just returned from Delhi. I have lost my voice speaking to or rather shouting at people to make myself heard amidst all the music at the stall. I met some of you, which was wonderful. I will post my complete reply to all your queries tomorrow. For now, it's dinner time and off to bed.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 9th January 2010, 23:37   #268
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Default The real McCoy !

Dilution sucks !!

I know,...apart from true jeepers,..a jeep out here means, some one who's out there crusing the strip to get chics. aargh !!

Just today driving back from the OTR in our battle scarred jeeps I saw a 540 clone with Himalayan Rally stickerred in a Font which I know is not bonafide.

These (clones) could for sure hurt some of the segment buyers loooking for a jeep, especially newbies,..who probably hav'nt been initiated into jeeping like I've ( along with hoards of other jeeprs have) been fortunate enough to be.
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Old 9th January 2010, 23:38   #269
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Dear all - thank you very much for all your comments. I have just returned from Delhi. I have lost my voice speaking to or rather shouting at people to make myself heard amidst all the music at the stall. I met some of you, which was wonderful. I will post my complete reply to all your queries tomorrow. For now, it's dinner time and off to bed.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sleep well Behram Sir,..for you have delivered a lifetimes worth !!
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Old 9th January 2010, 23:49   #270
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Thanks a Lot mr. Dhabhar,

We just missed you today in expo, met Mr. Menon in place and shared some appreciation for wonderful work which has been done by you & your dedicated team in Mahindra. It was even more exciting to see Thar in real then seeing it through photos on Team BHP or any other site. Excellent work I must say. inspte of the fact that me & my wife share a Scoprio & Grande Punto between us, we are tempted & seriously looking for a way out to buy one.

Our request is to declare pricing which suits everyone's budget, all possible options & early availability.

Also we would like to know would Soft top will have good AC effect?

Thanks

Attaching a pic on the scene for fellow BHPians who missed the fun.

@ Samurai : I got confirmation Thar is also available in Hard Top off the shelf so no need for any 3rd party

EDIT : Guys have loads of pics & info to share, which hopfully will be done tomorrow.
Attached Thumbnails
Mahindra Thar revealed at Autoexpo 2010-dsc_0022.jpg  


Last edited by SamtheLeo : 9th January 2010 at 23:53.
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