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Old 11th January 2010, 13:18   #316
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Dear Spike Arrestor - ref your post no 307, where do you work? Please send me a PM.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 11th January 2010, 13:27   #317
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Behramji,
will the thar have a hard top version?
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Old 11th January 2010, 13:38   #318
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Default Congratulations

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
You will note that I started the thread in December 08 because I wanted all of you to connect so that you would actually experience M&M's commitment towards "CUSTOMER CENTRICITY" firsthand. I am very thankful to you all for your excellent responses.
Hello Sir,

Congratulations to you and your team on launching a new vehicle.

wrt. Commitment to customer centricity, on the "MM5404WD Wishlist thread".

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...mm540-4wd.html (MM540-4WD wish list - what you really want in your MM540-4WD?)

What have you added, to the new M&M THAR?

1) Modern Axles? OKBJ/FFRA
2) Modern Suspension? (Solid Axle Coil Spring)
3) Traction Adding devices?- LSD/Selectable Differential Locks?
4) Gas-Charged Shock Absorbers?
5) Modern Engine - Definitely the CRDe XD3P will fall in that category.
6) Power Assisted Steering? Does Rack & Pinion steering fall into the suitable for off-road category?

So the moral of the story, is you had decided what you already want to 'GIVE' us and then the "WISH LIST" thread was just to soften, the blow, , create a sensation, a mania, and give what "YOU" wanted not what, a variety of people with years of off-road experience in a variety of vehicles, over many continents, suggested even requested. (I'm too young and inexperienced to belong to that esteemed list.)

Regards,

Arka
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Old 11th January 2010, 15:17   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
You have nailed it! But slight clarification, I think 7 or 8 seater is for excise duty concessions and weight is to pass through relatively lineant emission norms for vehicles weighing more than certain level. If thar was offered at 1500 kgs then it would have to pass through stricter emission norms, resulting in higher costs.

But key question is-Why does Thar weigh @ 1750 kgs, 10 kgs more than Bolero at 1650, when Invader is at 1575? Same thing was seen with Force Gurkha tipping scales at 1750 kgs! Gurkha atleast has a steel body. When Bolero and Invader can pass through regulations with less weight then why not cleaner engined thar?


Behram sir and others further explain the law.

P.s- See this Video, older and lighter jeeps doing a sand climb, including a DI turo major but not able to clear it despite momentum, but later Redmm440 scorpio powered CJ 340 clears without a hiccup! Ditto with the getaway. Hence guys there is no susbtitute to power on a sand climb

YouTube - TharMahindra's Channel
what is required to make a 2 seater THAR into 7/8 seater THAR?
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Old 11th January 2010, 15:20   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
What does army spec has to do with weight? Does army 550 weigh 1750 kgs? I dont think so!
Gurkha was developed with spec from Army, for a particular category to handles certain equipment,Thats is. The vehicle came up to be very expansive to buy hence as always the red tape in the buying of such vehicles showed it's ugly head.
I never mentioned the M&M 550 weight. How many Gurkha[ more capable] did the army buy compared to the 550.
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Old 11th January 2010, 15:56   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
what is required to make a 2 seater THAR into 7/8 seater THAR?
Two opposite facing rear seats + 2 front seats . 7 seaters have excise duty concessions and side facing seats also have less strigent safety requirements. They dont need safety belts for instance.

@Dinar- My logic was why do Thar and Gurkha have almost identical weights when they are a SWB? It must have something to do with the ability to meet legislation and not with the hardware that goes into it.

P.S- Army is till in BSII stage. Long behind civilian requirements.
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Old 11th January 2010, 19:50   #322
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Default Query regarding weights of Thar/MM550

Let me put my understanding of what these weights are all about:-

Kerb weight- it is the unladen weight of the vehicle without driver,with all coolants/lubricants filled up, 90% fuel, fitted with all standard equipments(sale intent vehicle)

Reference weight/Reference mass- This figure is mainly used for categorizing the vehicle, what that means is the category under which the vehicle will satisfy all the EEC/CMVR norms, this includes things like emission,safety norms, pass by noise, pedestrian safety etc etc. For e.g. as per EEC norms Reference mass means mass of vehicle in running order, for this 75 kgs is taken as weight of the driver, again a 75 kg weight is added for the co-driver (the reason being Reference weight is a Laboratory reference weight like the chassis dynamometer for which a calibration engineer must be seated next to the driver inorder to meet the particular class, i am saying this with reference to the emission norm), that makes it a total of 150 kg (driver+co-driver), now again a dead weight of 25 kg this is assumed as weight of test & calibration instruments that makes it a total of 175 kgs.However, it needs to be mentioned that the definition of reference mass is different as per Indian norms,here the total comes to 150 kgs,

Now to the facts- As far as i remember Old MM550's as per their specifications had a Kerb weight of 1620 kgs (4WD with ST version),to that Kerb weight a weight of 150 kgs was added (1620+150=1770 kgs), this becomes the reference mass of the vehicle and it very well lies in the M1 category emission norms. The question now remains why does the Thar weigh 1750 kgs?? well even i am not sure of this may be due to the above mentioned reason, perhaps Dhabhar Saheb can explain it in a better way.
I hope this clarifies. Phew

Regards,

Spike

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 11th January 2010 at 20:02. Reason: not properly formatted
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Old 11th January 2010, 20:08   #323
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Dear Arka - Your comments are well taken. Thar is not a hummer type of vehicle. It is a very good proposition for the offroad enthusiast who wants to enjoy his passion. It develops almost double power and double torque than what he is used to driving. If he gets such a new vehicle at an affordable price, I think he will buy it. It is also compulsary that a vehicle meets all laws of the land where it is sold. I trust that you will understand and appreciate that anything that is not at least BS4 is history.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 11th January 2010, 21:34   #324
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Dear Behram Dhabhar,

Are there any plans for a decent hard top for the Thar?

Heres hoping it will also fit the 550 without any major alterations.
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Old 11th January 2010, 21:37   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Arka - Your comments are well taken. Thar is not a hummer type of vehicle. It is a very good proposition for the offroad enthusiast who wants to enjoy his passion. It develops almost double power and double torque than what he is used to driving. If he gets such a new vehicle at an affordable price, I think he will buy it. It is also compulsary that a vehicle meets all laws of the land where it is sold. I trust that you will understand and appreciate that anything that is not at least BS4 is history.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
hints, hints and plenty of hints flowing in the above paragraph!
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Old 11th January 2010, 22:13   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Two opposite facing rear seats + 2 front seats . 7 seaters have excise duty concessions and side facing seats also have less strigent safety requirements. They dont need safety belts for instance.

@Dinar- My logic was why do Thar and Gurkha have almost identical weights when they are a SWB? It must have something to do with the ability to meet legislation and not with the hardware that goes into it.

P.S- Army is till in BSII stage. Long behind civilian requirements.
thank you very much! i wanted to hear that only.
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Old 12th January 2010, 06:03   #327
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My thoughts on Restoration Vs Thar -
New Jeep/Vehicle is a NEW Jeep/Vehicle. Trust me on this - I have lived with my Dad's Ambassador.
For me, am looking for a daily drive, weekend long drives, OTR - a sort of all in one vehicle, so apart from reliability, technology also plays a big role when comparing the above two, so my point is - buy a thar, you will have peace of mind and fun.
By the way - Thar is not an extreme offroader and an extreme offroader can never be an all in one vehicle.
What do you guys say? If this is out of topic please pardon me.
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Old 12th January 2010, 07:39   #328
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I feel that many who are looking for a hard core off-roader will be disappointed and will have to continue rebuilding CJs and MM540s. I also feel the market for an all rounder with good highway cruisability and decent off-road capability is much larger than hard core off-roaders. I feel Thar is the right compromise.

I also feel that it was easier for Mr. Behram to develop/launch this vehicle if the parts came from the existing mahindra parts bin, rather than develop an all new platform. So a shorted Scorpio chasis and an existing 2.5 CRDe powerplant is easier than making a custom coil spring set up just for the Thar. He may have not got approval for new parts/tooling etc given the cost associated with this and relatively low volumes.

Frankly, I am very happy with the product and it will be my daily driver. This vehicle is ideal for people who want to use it as their daily driver with an occasional off-road jaunt.

Another thing I wish is that Mahindra stops promoting the commerical pick up with the CJ front end. I feel it is a dishonor to the heritage of the CJ series to see the CJ front end plonked on a Bolero chasis to carry potatos.. They should now exclusively promote the pick up with the older Bolero (square headlight) front end. The Mahindra designers can then knock themselves out adding more ornaments and skirts and crome to the Bolero pick up and never find out about the Thar. Gosh, just imagine the Thar with skirts front ornaments and the Walrus tooth. I could never live with that.
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Old 12th January 2010, 09:16   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post

Another thing I wish is that Mahindra stops promoting the commerical pick up with the CJ front end. I feel it is a dishonor to the heritage of the CJ series to see the CJ front end plonked on a Bolero chasis to carry potatos.. They should now exclusively promote the pick up with the older Bolero (square headlight) front end. The Mahindra designers can then knock themselves out adding more ornaments and skirts and crome to the Bolero pick up and never find out about the Thar. Gosh, just imagine the Thar with skirts front ornaments and the Walrus tooth. I could never live with that.
Well said 4x4addict, People like us love the looks of MM540, and commerical pick up owners like the vehicle for other than looks,. so combining them will only dilute everything
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Old 12th January 2010, 09:25   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I feel that many who are looking for a hard core off-roader will be disappointed and will have to continue rebuilding CJs and MM540s. I also feel the market for an all rounder with good highway cruisability and decent off-road capability is much larger than hard core off-roaders. I feel Thar is the right compromise.

I also feel that it was easier for Mr. Behram to develop/launch this vehicle if the parts came from the existing mahindra parts bin, rather than develop an all new platform. So a shorted Scorpio chasis and an existing 2.5 CRDe powerplant is easier than making a custom coil spring set up just for the Thar. He may have not got approval for new parts/tooling etc given the cost associated with this and relatively low volumes.

Frankly, I am very happy with the product and it will be my daily driver. This vehicle is ideal for people who want to use it as their daily driver with an occasional off-road jaunt.
our wishes have been granted by the jinie (mr. behram)

we get a daily driver/highway worthy 4WD plus for the OTR with the wifey and kids (for those who are married)
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