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Old 25th January 2010, 16:16   #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvrajan View Post
If anyone has any notion of taking this to a jeepthrills event (like the avalakonda event of yesterday/today) , pls be prepared to spend a lot of money in the *** after the OTR.
If you dont believe me, look at what happened to the bolero on that trail.

I got the impression that pricing of above 6L is kept there for a reason that is NOT to affect the sales of Bolero
Hi pvrajan,

I hope the Indian Thar will be different than the Thar Adventure in terms of GC & Diff. ratio. May be its still far away, but atleast we can hope that after this event, the negative points of the Thar Concept will be taken care in production version. May be we can see the Exhaust package more in line with MM550 i.e just in line with chassis level.

May be we can all say "Sabar ka fal meetha hota hai"
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Old 25th January 2010, 16:34   #587
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
how do you think it would have performed in yesterday's terrain?

a) Completed with ease.
b) Completed with difficulty.
c) Failed to complete the event.
My take, B. Coz even with all the power and gizmos, the GC is a big achilles and i will post some pics later in eve for visual reference.

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Originally Posted by Baburajs View Post
I believe one of the scorpios got stuck yesterday. (dont know how and why)
Babu, keep watching for a few more hours, I got 'those' pics.

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Did you guys drive it on the trail?
NOPE- It was as beautiful as a Bride, stowed away from all the men, safely inside a Shamiyana (tent). It was revealed later in the evening, I missed it completely...
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Old 25th January 2010, 16:50   #588
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Guys, none of you have driven the Thar, don't go by normal Jeep experience. This is a very different animal. I want to hear Behram's answer since he has driven it offroad.

Quote:
the GC is a big achilles
You mean his heel. Achilles by himself is not a bad thing.
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Old 25th January 2010, 16:58   #589
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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
NOPE- It was as beautiful as a Bride, stowed away from all the men, safely inside a Shamiyana (tent).
M&M trucked it all the way down, just to show it?

They could have got it to Palace Grounds instead could have got more eyeballs there, why bother taking it to the trail?
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Old 25th January 2010, 17:13   #590
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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Pricing is not bad.
Which is exactly the point I was stressing on yesterday. One vehicle, capable of off roading, comfortable, fast (and these 2 words hold the key here)long distance cruising, easy to drive in the city and on the highway, good looking, completely customisable, selling for 6 lacs is a dream. The only competition it has is the Gypsy to a very negligible extent. With proper marketing, this will become the Indian Hummer.
Behram Sir, You ve got a winner in this, just sell it the way it is supposed to be sold and there is no looking back.

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
They could have got it to Palace Grounds instead could have got more eyeballs there, why bother taking it to the trail?
In my opinion,the point was not just getting people to look at it, there are umpteen other ways of achieving that, the point was to make "proper off roaders with experience and maturity" look at it and give their feedback.

Why wasn't it driven on the trail, well reasons of policy beyond control I guess.
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Old 25th January 2010, 17:23   #591
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Guys, none of you have driven the Thar, don't go by normal Jeep experience. This is a very different animal. I want to hear Behram's answer since he has driven it offroad.
Ok, just thought both the Scorpio's and Thar's under-chassis is ditto - Hence the comments... PS, to my above Arka's In-trail talk, another noteable was -"yeah yeah, Thar can do this in 2WD". This was at the place where Scorpio's frontal 'Achilles heel' was causing some bad image problems for its new offspring...

Quote:
You mean his heel. Achilles by himself is not a bad thing.
Hehe - yeah, Typo - But hey, Bradd Pitt was mean in Troy...

Edit...
Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
...the point was to make "proper off roaders with experience and maturity" look at it and give their feedback.---- Why wasn't it driven on the trail, well reasons of policy beyond control I guess.
Just looking doesnt show its capability. Only part wishes were fulfilled, I dont even think many experienced offroaders got to Meet Behramji and Thar toghether. We had Behram in the trail, but the later last few hours of day had many 'seniors' slog it out @ recoveries as Marshals. I dont think the much expected 'Warne Vs Sachin' AKA 'Arka Vs Behram' happened at the Thar Tent. Would have loved it if it took place...

Last edited by svsantosh : 25th January 2010 at 17:29.
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Old 25th January 2010, 17:35   #592
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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Only part wishes were fulfilled, I dont even think many experienced offroaders got to Meet Behramji and Thar together.
Correct, though these part wishes were further added to by a detailed explanation, discussion and reasoning of the current specs of the Thar, what it could not be made to have at the factory end, what options the dealer could have and so on and so forth. We even got a peek at an approximate price of the beast when launched.
Yes, I understand many people could not interact with Behram Sir as much as they would have wanted to ( and that includes me as well) but I guess that happens ever so often to all of us, no?
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Old 25th January 2010, 17:46   #593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Ok, just thought both the Scorpio's and Thar's under-chassis is ditto - Hence the comments... PS, to my above Arka's In-trail talk, another noteable was -"yeah yeah, Thar can do this in 2WD". This was at the place where Scorpio's frontal 'Achilles heel' was causing some bad image problems for its new offspring...
The wheelbase, weight, GC and entry/exit angles are different for Scorpio and Thar. Even 4x4 system is manual in Thar. So let's not write-off Thar based on Scorpio/Bolero experience. Many of you probably saw how Behram crossed the ditch using the CJ340. And he is the only one who has driven the Thar offroad, he has designed the Thar, and he had decades of offroading experience. So, let's keep an open mind and wait for his opinion on yesterday's terrain + Thar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
I dont think the much expected 'Warne Vs Sachin' AKA 'Arka Vs Behram' happened at the Thar Tent. Would have loved it if it took place...
Who is Warne and who is Sachin did you say? And do you plan to run into Arka again someday?

Last edited by Samurai : 25th January 2010 at 17:47.
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Old 25th January 2010, 18:07   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
In my opinion,the point was not just getting people to look at it, there are umpteen other ways of achieving that, the point was to make "proper off roaders with experience and maturity" look at it and give their feedback.

Why wasn't it driven on the trail, well reasons of policy beyond control I guess.
Yes, touch and feel is better, not all of us went to the Auto Expo anyways. So yes this is a start and surely unprecedented in Indian Automobile history.

So was the feedback collected through forms or something?
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Old 25th January 2010, 18:41   #595
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
So was the feedback collected through forms or something?
M&M had the Asst Project Mgr, incidentally a THBian too, at the venue who was instructed by Behram Sir to collect all the feedback given and follow it up with the folks at the R&D Center at Nashik.

Behram Sir distributed his business cards to some of us as well, as usual we were short of enough cards
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Old 25th January 2010, 22:38   #596
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im really liking the discussion going on in this thread after the Thar Adventure was shown in the bangalore OTR.

i really liked the way M&M and Mr. Behram got the vehicle to be showed to the guys in OTR and get their feedback.

remember guys this is just a bling bling show case vehicle, your positive criticism and feedback will enable Mr. Behram to provide us with a better vehicle.
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Old 25th January 2010, 22:48   #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
To comment on your above point - I cant wait for Arka to get out of bangalore and get back to his computer in Chennai
I dont think Arka had any proper conversation with Bherahm over Thar, it was just 2 or 3 leg pullers. Whats the point then? to hear what we have been hearing for the last whatever days/months?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
6 lacs+ for base version ex-showroom??
Then its gonna be another yuppie mobile.
It sure is heading that way! M&M or atleast the Marketing Heads need to wake up BIG time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baburajs View Post
But one thing is for sure. If you want you can make Thar a rather potent Off Roading machine. But you will need quite an amount of Vitamin M for that which people like me will find wanting.
Yes Babu this is where my heart also starts to sink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSparrow View Post
I guess over 6L for the base model is a bit too much, I've expected it to be in the 5L to 6L range. I guess I'll consider buying the THAR if the higher end is well priced(less than 7L).
Base model 6 lakhs ex showroom doesnt make sense, add a 1.2 lakh for on the road price. Plus another lakh minimum preparing. I personally would buy a gypsy, maybe even consider rebuilding a junk! since i have a far more comfortable car otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by COUGAR View Post
I am one of those, maybe the minority, who was dissapointed with the Thar.
=======================
WOuldnt it have been better if Mahindra had refined the now discontinued Bolero Sportz and Invader platforms?
Common parts is good news for you and me! Lower price though indications are not in favor for Thar. And you are not alone in that minority ie if its price high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torque-ative View Post
The Thar is a fine examle of WIP (work in progress).
=========
Need more GC though,...cant shout that enough !
A bare minimum of 225mm is needed for a vehicle of this potential to be used effectively off-road.
Yup 100% this is NOT the final product for India. GC is one of the least concerns i have atleast, tyres plus some minor tweaks and protection will take care to a great extent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Pricing is not bad. since this is a niche market with no competitors whatsoever.
Will make it pretty exclusive and will keep the Mahindra accountants happy.
After all, this won't sell over a 1000 units per month.
This is where things get confusing, nobody is out there to create a niche (atleast thats what i understood) unless they can make money (make it good amount of money)! So its number game at the end!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvrajan View Post
Good: engine and shape
Bad: Wheel articulation, clearance from the fendor, suspension
Ugly: pricing & pricing reasons

If M&M introduce the vehicle as it is (without the bling bling ofcourse) it will
still be a good vehicle, for soft ofroading, sand/beach going on to your coffee estate, etc
=============
If you dont believe me, look at what happened to the bolero on that trail.

I got the impression that pricing of above 6L is kept there for a reason that is NOT to affect the sales of Bolero
Yup precisely what i started with, off the showroom "stock" its going to be a classic version of a bolero camper, soft trail vehicle maybe with maybe lesser overhang in comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
a) Completed with ease.
b) Completed with difficulty.
c) Failed to complete the event.
Stock Thar b) no two thoughts about selecting and locking the answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Did you guys drive it on the trail?
Nobody except M&M driver drove it yesterday, not even Mr Thar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by offroad_maniac View Post
Sabar ka fal meetha hota hai"
Yup crossing fingers and what not for this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Guys, none of you have driven the Thar, don't go by normal Jeep experience. This is a very different animal. I want to hear Behram's answer since he has driven it offroad.
And please make the answer is applicable for Stock Thar or NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Which is exactly the point I was stressing on yesterday. One vehicle, capable of off roading, comfortable, fast (and these 2 words hold the key here)long distance cruising, easy to drive in the city and on the highway, good looking, completely customisable, selling for 6 lacs is a dream. The only competition it has is the Gypsy to a very negligible extent. With proper marketing, this will become the Indian Hummer.
Behram Sir, You ve got a winner in this, just sell it the way it is supposed to be sold and there is no looking back.

In my opinion,the point was not just getting people to look at it, there are umpteen other ways of achieving that, the point was to make "proper off roaders with experience and maturity" look at it and give their feedback.

Why wasn't it driven on the trail, well reasons of policy beyond control I guess.
Dev, i didnt want to argue with you yesterday. But 2 wheel or 4 wheel this aint gonna rock the sales numbers at a high price tag ie 6lakhs which is 7.2lakhs OTR in BLR minimum. Add tire and alloys it will goto 7.6-7.75 lakhs minimum, AC 30 grand? You still want more tab or buy a sedan?

Hummer vs a popular Honda sedan?? Do you know that car is the second important "family purchase decision" made by Indians. Do you think any manufacturer is equipped right now to educate, change this??? to make 1000 numbers with Thar a quarter at the indicated price?

DKG had a point but think about India, where you me and him are a bloody minority! Now after thinking for 24 hours, i think i also will NOT buy if its 7 lakh on the road, though i can afford it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
This was at the place where Scorpio's frontal 'Achilles heel' was causing some bad image problems for its new offspring...
===================
Just looking doesnt show its capability. Only part wishes were fulfilled, I dont even think many experienced offroaders got to Meet Behramji and Thar toghether. We had Behram in the trail, but the later last few hours of day had many 'seniors' slog it out @ recoveries as Marshals.
==============
I dont think the much expected 'Warne Vs Sachin' AKA 'Arka Vs Behram' happened at the Thar Tent. Would have loved it if it took place...
1) Scorpios finished the trail so i cant complain much, it was never designed for it. It was modified within decent limits and for what they did, 3 BIG cheers to the drivers and their vehicle! FYI it had their family, lunch for everybody. Family was having a good time, sometimes even in AC comfort! Lets start comparing apples to apples.

2) Real offroaders already have their machines ready and not many were really looking at adding more. Interested people were more new b's who wished to initiate into the world of offroads rather than real offroader.

3) You missed the 20-20 at lunch, but i felt it really didnt make any sense especially since it was not really an open discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
So was the feedback collected through forms or something?
Replied above + believe you and me Bherahm is sharp! even without an assistant he has got most of the points that he was interested in.

ps: Thar desert earlier was a bad atempt at humor, which i dont think anybody except Samu got! Its actually the goat from which the vehicle name is inspired from

Last edited by Jaggu : 25th January 2010 at 22:52.
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Old 26th January 2010, 00:16   #598
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Behram, looking at some of the comments, I can't resist asking this question. You are the only person who has driven Thar off the road and seen yesterday's terrain.

If Thar was allowed to be driven yesterday, how do you think it would have performed in yesterday's terrain?

a) Completed with ease.
b) Completed with difficulty.
c) Failed to complete the event.
Ahh. Believe me, from what dad told me, it would have been a walk in the park for the Thar. I know people will wonder how, But just believe me when I say so.....
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Old 26th January 2010, 00:59   #599
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Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
Ahh. Believe me, from what dad told me, it would have been a walk in the park for the Thar. I know people will wonder how, But just believe me when I say so.....
Yeah, the stock THAR with NO MLD, 180 mm GC (is it 180 or 200?), 235/70/16 tyres, silencer some 3" below the chassis + other odd-bits and pieces below the chassis, would ahve EASILY done this in 2WD mode, with all that 90 BHP (or is it 100/105 BHP ) and 27kgm of torque.

I am sure the Jeep Experts will have more to add on this one.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 26th January 2010 at 01:11.
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Old 26th January 2010, 01:07   #600
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Cyrus lets wait for DB, we know/respect that he is working with great amount of restrictions, but i managed to scrape Spideys diff's and that is......
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