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Old 15th February 2010, 10:56   #721
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THAR -well i will be happy if it comes in the CSD canteen catalog, at around 5 lakhs...
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Old 15th February 2010, 10:56   #722
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I agree that we need a good off roader in the Indian market and the Thar is the answer to all our problems.. But the designers at Mahindra needs to do a basic course on how to keep it neat and simple.. For eg: the tail lights look horrible and huge.. Whats the point? The side front fenders needs to be a bit in place.. Yes it does look monstrous and all.. but There are no basic aesthetics.. a small injury on these during off roading will create a huge dent on our pockets. The rear individual bucket seats too don't look good. Not to be a spoil sport, I am not the know all guy about jeeps.. Yes but I know what keeping it simple and good actually means..
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Old 15th February 2010, 11:27   #723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
@Technologist comparing a Hatch and a major is like comparing apples to oranges both are in a different league altogether,

Spike
Hmm, agreed, but i believe that a hatch/sedan is much more complicated to build - also most hatch/sedan engines are more complicated than the Major engine !

If mahindra would sell a proper jeep at a more affordable price point, they'll surely sell much more - and from the amount of metal and tech i see going into a jeep - I somehow don't believe it really costs all that to manufacture!

A sumo victa with everything (except 4x4) used to sell around 6 lakhs or so , a major has much less of everything and still costs the same - somehow it doesnt add up , at least to my untrained eye !

Also I agree mahindra sells less jeeps, so they have to price it higher - however the reason why it sells less is because of the price - its the chicken and the egg story !

cheers,

amit
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Old 15th February 2010, 11:27   #724
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My guess for the price band for Thar is 5.75L-6.5L OTR.
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Old 15th February 2010, 11:49   #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techn0l0gist View Post
Hmm, agreed, but i believe that a hatch/sedan is much more complicated to build - also most hatch/sedan engines are more complicated than the Major engine !
+1. And the hatchs and newer vehicles have curvy bodies I think stamping flat panels with machines more then a 2-3 decades old should surely be cheaper.
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Old 15th February 2010, 12:21   #726
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+1. And the hatchs and newer vehicles have curvy bodies I think stamping flat panels with machines more then a 2-3 decades old should surely be cheaper.
On another thought - maybe mahindra doesn't want to be bothered making lots of jeeps , if they price lower - they need to make more jeeps as they would sell more - so more hassle!

So maybe they took the easy way out by trying to extract maximum profit from whatever little customers turn up at their doorstep - so they don't need to deal with large volumes !

To me a fairly priced jeep from mahindra is still a dream - I shall believe it when I see it .

Last edited by techn0l0gist : 15th February 2010 at 12:28.
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Old 15th February 2010, 13:29   #727
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Hi, I've been watching this thread very closely and a good & mean 4X4 jeep is all I want. The Legend with all the frills & thrills of an Army Jeep costed 6.15 ex-showroom. Now if I was to do away with the frills & thrills that it was fitted with (which can be offered as optional fittings at the dealer), then we can cut out 50k for the winch, about 15k for all the additional fog lights/military spec lights etc., 15k for the audio system & speakers, 15k for the leather seats, 10k for the canvas top (must be offered at dealer), 25k for the alloys, 15k for the doors & body contoured footrests (want a beast like the one Sir Behram is driving on the offroad track in a black thar), 15k for the row seats at the rear & fendres/arches around the wheels (offered at dealer) and volla! we should be able to have a basic 4X4 beast available at a reasonable price which would be as customizable as possible to suit individual tastes, with an ex-showroom price of 4.55L
I am not adding up any costs for the engine as M&M should be able to scale the costs down due to the economies of production & by using this BS4 compliant engine across their range of utility vehicles.

Also, in my understanding the Thar must be available in 2 models (both 4X4) - one the basic beast (as described above) offering max customizability, the other with all the frills & thrills like the Silver colored Thar that Sir Behram stood next to outside the Parsi temple.
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Old 15th February 2010, 13:38   #728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techn0l0gist View Post
To me a fairly priced jeep from mahindra is still a dream - I shall believe it when I see it .
THAR is a dream JEEP for all, but if it is priced correctly. It has a modern BS4 compliant engine, a decent GB and a manual 4WD. Maybe it is the big brother of the Classic.

Pricing - Well Your guess is as good as mine
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Old 15th February 2010, 14:04   #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
@offroad maniac well said, its not just the cost that we are talking here, there are other factors to it, a manufacturer cannot put a new product into market unless:-
a) It satisfies all norms b) It is tested and validated, also if you deviate from the current set up it will result in more lead times for delivering the final product. Just for information to the members i am attaching a pic showing a regulatory requirement as mentioned in CMVR. It comes under the category "Foot controls AIS035" which specifies minimum dimensions which needs to be maintained by the vehicle manufacturer. This is just one of the aspects which any manufacturer has to meet, I can go on and on and on.

@Arka Sir, are you listening?

Spike
Spike Sir,

Give me the CMVR or ARAI reason for using IFS.

You are giving Tech-Specs of what? I guess the MM550XD and MM ISUZU surely met these specs.

Regards,

Arka

PS - What are the CMVR specs to which the M&M ARJUN adhered to? Please list them out.
i) Body Shell
ii) Chassis
iii) Emission
iv) Safety.
v) Handling/Braking/Suspension

Last edited by ex670c : 15th February 2010 at 14:06.
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Old 15th February 2010, 14:27   #730
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Default 4x4 VS hatch

I can see the pressure being built to price it very competitively! It not only faces competition with its own siblings but also with hatches and other MUV's for comparison at price point.

Guys a hatch is definitely more complicated to build. But how many do they sell? few thousands? How many units is Thar going to sell despite pricing it competitively? Few hundreds or may be one thousand units?

I face similar arguments and quite logical at it from my wife. When i say i would buy a new jeep she asks me price of it, i say about 6.5 lakhs on road. Then she asks me what features does it have? I say 4wd and CRDI diesel engine.

She: Does it have a power steering?
Ans. i say Yes (proudly)
She: Does it have A/c?
Ans.No
She: Does it have power windows?
Ans.No
She: Does it have 4 doors?
Ans.No

She: How does it look?
Ans. Like a traditional jeep (that puts her off)

She: Does it have a vanity mirror at-least?
Ans. No!

She: What does it have for 6.5 lakhs?
Ans. off road-ability and cruise-ability with comfort

She: But your jeep already has the former..
Ans. i don't have the later.

She: So, you mean you will spend 6.5 lakhs only for the later?
Ans. yes of course it is important!

She:Then you buy a car!! A ford Ikon has every thing for 5 lakhs on road!
Ans. Forget it!

Unfortunately this would be the arguments in almost every house hold when you say you want to buy a jeep. An MUV cannot match value for money thing with a hatch or even a mid size car due to overall volumes constraint. More displacement of the engine and the metal that adds to it. How many understands this? And why should they understand all this?

So behram sir, you have a steep challenge ahead. please price it competitively so that we can convince our home ministers to shell out some serious money!

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 15th February 2010 at 14:28.
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Old 15th February 2010, 14:29   #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
What are the CMVR specs to which the M&M ARJUN adhered to? Please list them out.
i) Body Shell
ii) Chassis
iii) Emission
iv) Safety.
v) Handling/Braking/Suspension


I doubt the Share Autos and Taxis meet any Specs let alone the ARAI and CMVR.

These contraptions are accident creators on road and should be banned from using the roads.

All manufacturers nowadays gun for a single cylinder diesel load carrier priced at 1.5 L onwards. They are absurd, but apparently these are the only ones to be used in the city at a later date.

Anyone seen the Mahindra Gio - Looks CUTE
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Old 15th February 2010, 14:34   #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
I can see the pressure being built to price it very competitively! I....


So behram sir, you have a steep challenge ahead. please price it competitively so that we can convince our home ministers to shell out some serious money!
@VN: You are hilarious and I quite AGREE with your wife - Not even a vanity mirror - Shame..

Pricing a product will grow or kill the product and thats why I stress on it repeatedly.

Now, suppose I give you a used TLC for 4L onroad - Does that give you everything Vinod? You have very much seen what TLC does offroad.
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Old 15th February 2010, 14:58   #733
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The key is it is a USED TLC. Yes it has every thing what my wife likes and every thing what i like. Wish if parts weren't a problem we wouldnt have been discussing Thar so much!
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Old 15th February 2010, 14:59   #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Spike Sir,

Give me the CMVR or ARAI reason for using IFS.

You are giving Tech-Specs of what? I guess the MM550XD and MM ISUZU surely met these specs.

Regards,

Arka

PS - What are the CMVR specs to which the M&M ARJUN adhered to? Please list them out.
i) Body Shell
ii) Chassis
iii) Emission
iv) Safety.
v) Handling/Braking/Suspension
Dear Arka,

Arjun is a tractor yaar, regulations for Road vehicles and Agricultural equipments is different, so the points mentioned by you are of no relevance here. Argument is good but not just for the heck of it.. Stop pulling my leg yaar.
@Vinod a vanity mirror can be retro fitted with ease, its a one to one replacement.

Spike

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 15th February 2010 at 15:05.
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Old 15th February 2010, 15:42   #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
@Vinod a vanity mirror can be retro fitted with ease, its a one to one replacement.
I get the joke but you missed the point of Vinod's post.
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