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Old 28th February 2010, 06:00   #886
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Originally Posted by yikes6633 View Post
Dear Sir, we are very happy to hear that the Thar is on the assembly line now. Thanks to you for giving birth to this vehicle keeping in mind most of our interests & requirements.

I know there are still a few who feel that their wish lists are not met, however the greater majority feel that we now have a 4WD that we were long wanting.

Thanks again to you and you're team
I second this opinion. It is impossible for a company to keep every customer happy, unless you have just launched a japanese product with the support of the prime minister in a socialist country that sells only a morris oxford and fiat.

If the price is affordable, I think many buyers will be happy to go for this vehicle.
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Old 28th February 2010, 06:17   #887
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It is impossible for a company to keep every customer happy, unless you have just launched a japanese product with the support of the prime minister in a socialist country that sells only a morris oxford and fiat.
DId they keep everyone happy? NO - They just had the resources and the energy to keep going INSPITE of all their problems / issues. If one had the backing of GOI, the going becomes simpler!!
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Old 28th February 2010, 06:39   #888
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Guys, (4x4 addict & headers)
what are you doing at home at this hour? Get on to the road / i mean off road. So stop posting now. Remember there's OTR today? :-)

Spike- With the permission of Behraam sir, why dont you post some pics of assembly line were thar is being produced? Stage by stage? Will give an insight for most of us as to how it is produced, what process it goes through. Will be interesting. I need RHD pic of 7 seater production Thar badly:-)))

Behram sir,- I understand your passion and i really liked the word 'actionable passion'!! Now since we all know pricing is the key issue after the union budget 2010 will the pricing increase? Theres more excise duty on SUV and large cars? Where does Thar fit in here? Do you have any control here? Remember one wrong move all what you have done till now does down the drain and vehicle will not sell.

Arka- Yar we all know what Thar can do and what it cannot do! Just be happy we have a jeep that our better halves can drive and we also can dare to take it off road unlike other SUV's!! In Thar, Alvakonda type of off road terrain must be clearly avoided unless you have deep pockets to repair/ replace IFS suspension components. I think it is quite competent in all other kinds of terrain. Just one off trail shouldnt worry us so much. However it is sad that after so much of effort hardcore guys have to still resort to Ex army vehicles as always!

p.s Only hard core component missing is solid axle and FFRA. Why not this on Thar Economy? err...i have just invented a new brand!!:-P

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 28th February 2010 at 06:43.
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Old 28th February 2010, 08:55   #889
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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
i believe it is time to post pictures of the white RHD that we have built, what do you say Sir? please do the honours.

Spike
Dear Behram Sir,
Kindly approve & do the honours.

BTW Spike, sir has already posted pics of RHD Thar (Black doorless) that too offroading. So you can post any new pics that can be shared.

Also consider the request by Vinod sir.
Price hike after budget will be a concern so do consider Thar Economy

(White will look awesome on a Soft Top.)
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Old 28th February 2010, 11:56   #890
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@Vinod although i have photos/drawings of each and every part being fitted on the vehicle, I cannot post them especially pics of the assembly line due to obvious IPR reasons, regarding the pic of RHD version i leave it to "Mr.Thar"
@offroad maniac you are spot on, "White vehicle with soft top looks mind blowing", that is what i stressed earlier

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Old 28th February 2010, 12:10   #891
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which Thar(Rhd/Lhd) are we talking about on the assembly line?
Still no launch schedule confirmation!
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Old 1st March 2010, 15:44   #892
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http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...ml#post1758042 (Not so Live Report: Bangalore Annual OTR, Avalakondu 24-25 Jan 2010!)

Hi Spike,

I think your post needs to be looked into Keeping M&M Vehicles especially the THAR.

1) How many Different Rear Axle variants does M&M Use?

57" SFRA Scorpio
53" SFRA Bolero SC/DC Pick Up/Camper Series
51" SFRA Major

53" FFRA Bolero/Bolero Storm
59" FFRA Maxx Series

2) How many Different Front Axle variations ?

i) Bolero 2WD IFS 57"
ii) Scorpio 2WD IFS 57"
iii) OKBJ Dead Axle 57"
iv) OKBJ Live Axle 57" (Bolero Series)
v) OKBJ Live Axle 51" (Major/ 650)

3) Gear Box

i) Isuzu 5Speed + 4WD for Bolero 4WD with XD3P
ii) NGT520 for MDI3200TC engines
iii) NGT530 for uprated engines (SZ2600/NEF249/M-Hawk)

4) Transfer Case

i) T-18 for MDI3200TC series
ii) Borg-Warner for uprated engines (SZ2600/NEF249/M-Hawk)

5) Steering System

i) MRCBT
ii) Hydraulic Assisted MRCBT
iii) Rack & Pinion (Scorpio IFS Setup)

My question is

1) Why does the Major use 51/51" Track? Why Not 57/53?
2) Why do you need to make the 51" SFRA, why not 53" FFRA
3) Why have a 53" SFRA & FFRA why not only SFRA?
4) Why not the NGT530 all through out the range?

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by ex670c : 1st March 2010 at 15:47.
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Old 1st March 2010, 19:05   #893
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@Arka i appreciate your compilation of facts, but then if we don't evolve as an organisation we will again be criticized as following age old designs/practices, does that mean to continue standardisation i will plonk a Dead axle in a scorpio? we have to move forward ,now coming back to your questions:-
1. Why do you need 57/53 in a major, who will cover the external projections (CMVR governed) of this vehicle, also even after converting to 57/53 you will criticize us for not keeping the tracks same as it causes trouble during traversing through wooden logs.
2. I am surprised by this question, a 53" component for a 51" component, no comments
3. There are SFRA with 53" track, please have a look at the bolero rear axle.
4. Why will owner of a Major/Commander/MaxxPikup prefer a NGT530? The answer to this question is simple why do you need a Scorpio M2Di when there is a Scorpio VLX, simply because the customer base is different. I hope this answers your questions phew. Next set of questions please,

Spike
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Old 2nd March 2010, 12:57   #894
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Default SO many axles

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post

1. Why do you need 57/53 in a major, who will cover the external projections (CMVR governed) of this vehicle, also even after converting to 57/53 you will criticize us for not keeping the tracks same as it causes trouble during traversing through wooden logs.
2. I am surprised by this question, a 53" component for a 51" component, no comments
3. There are SFRA with 53" track, please have a look at the bolero rear axle.
4. Why will owner of a Major/Commander/MaxxPikup prefer a NGT530? The answer to this question is simple why do you need a Scorpio M2Di when there is a Scorpio VLX, simply because the customer base is different. I hope this answers your questions phew. Next set of questions please,

Spike
Spike,
I agree with Arkas point in few instances. If standardization is the word-

How does customer base decide the choice of axle?- I agree on over loading n all but the width of the axle, does customer base decide on it?

His point is simple, why not give 57/53 track on Major/ Commander 650 ST also? What does customer base have to do with the width of the axle? What makes M&M continue 51" axles just for handful of models? Again i don't have problem, but if standardization is the key then why so many axle widths with in the same class of vehicles?

Adding aprons is costly or making a separate axle for few hundred vehicles? The good point is that you would give customer a tighter turning radius a boon even on village roads.

Again why didn't mahindra make Major on NGCS chassis all these years? Army chassis is different , but why not make it on Legends chassis?

Choice of gearbox i think is entirely a strategic issue. NGT 520 must be cheaper to produce than 530. Shift quality, torque input/output capacity, gear teeth quality, NVH, all contribute to cost.

I think M&M has come a long way in terms of standardization. They had XDP, XD3p , MDI 3000/3200 / MMISZ Isuzu petrol all running at the same time! Now it is only three MDI Turbo 3200, 2.5 M eagle and 2.2 M hawk. They had 3 gearboxes- 4 speed Kia, BA-10 , HMX- Isuzu and two transfer cases - T 18 and Brog warner

Now its only 2 gearboxes 520 and 530 though they continue to have 2 type of transfer cases

But interesting to know that now they have too many axles types and diff ratios than they used to have earlier. Axle ratio's i agree due to emission requirement but why so many axle types i n terms of width?

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 2nd March 2010 at 12:59.
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Old 2nd March 2010, 16:12   #895
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@Vinod i never said that customer base decides the width of axles,please do not interpret it the other way, no sooner you produce a vehicle with wheels coming out from the body line you are criticized for making a contraption, that too on a vehicle which symbolises "JEEP", for your kind information distances from the spring seat to the vehicle centre line is different in both cases, it is 646 in case of maxx (53") and 587mm in case of CL(51"), i hope you understand the consequences of changing the offsets, also if the wheel comes out of the wheel housing won't it have any effect during articulations, or would you like us to shift the body panels on a proportionate basis? What say?

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Old 2nd March 2010, 17:05   #896
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spring has sprung and the grass is riz,
i wonder where the thar is?
Ummm it is march beginning and the dealers still have no clue about it.
I won't name my favourite one as they get spanked by M&M and then cry out to me.
Cmonnnnnnn beheeereee it beeeee?
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Old 2nd March 2010, 17:12   #897
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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
@Vinod i never said that customer base decides the width of axles,please do not interpret it the other way, no sooner you produce a vehicle with wheels coming out from the body line you are criticized for making a contraption, that too on a vehicle which symbolises "JEEP", for your kind information distances from the spring seat to the vehicle centre line is different in both cases, it is 646 in case of maxx (53") and 587mm in case of CL(51"), i hope you understand the consequences of changing the offsets, also if the wheel comes out of the wheel housing won't it have any effect during articulations, or would you like us to shift the body panels on a proportionate basis? What say?
Hi Spike,

I Thank God, at least you have a sense of humour.

You were manufacturing contraptions like the CJ4/CJ4A/CJ500D (91-101 Wheel Base)for donkeys of years.

When did M&M introduce OKBJ Axles? 2001 they were available to the rest of the world since the early sixties.

So After 10 years of production what further upgrade have you done to the OKBJ?
Internally Flanged Hubs?
Heavier UJs
Heavier Axles
Why haven't you upgraded the Front Outer Spline count i.e heavier Stub-Axle?
30 Spline Front Axle

The Same coming out of the body line contraption was supplied to the Army since 2004, displayed at Auto-Shows to the rest of the world as the Thar.

What happened when the MM550XD PCD was changed?

Is it really that difficult to change the differential off-set?

What happens to the MM550XD body panels under articulation?

Enough of us have swapped a variety of Wider-Track axles on CJ3Bs & MM540s. None of us have been disappointed.

Even you guy have done it on the MM ISZ/Quadro/MM550XD but when it comes to the CL550 it become a Technical Nightmare aka BOM.

When customers/consumers praise your vehicle for being rugged and bullet proof, you start going soft.

Its as if your sales dept interprets bullet proof as Minimal Service hence Dealerships will not benefit from frequent service bills.

If you cannot officially accept our suggestions and acknowledge them as being technically sound that is fine you have a job (to do and keep).

But please don't quote BOM as a reason for not being able to do it.

Spike How many on the Thar team own a M&M JEEP? (even a 4WD Bolero will do) I guess you will find the answer there.

Regards,

Arka

PS - can you list out the service M&M vehicles for MGE (Engine Transmission & Axles)

Last edited by ex670c : 2nd March 2010 at 17:31.
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Old 2nd March 2010, 17:20   #898
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@ Spike

3. There are SFRA with 53" track, please have a look at the bolero rear axle.

I think you got it wrong over here. Arka is asking why do you have both FFRA and SFRA for 53". Why not just SFRA?? or FFRA for that matter?

Another question for both Spike and Mr. Behram. Earlier there was a lot of talk about not being able to have the NEF engine and live axle on the Bolero platform. Strangely enough, Bolero campers in Nepal are available with the NEF engine and 4x4 with Live Axle. Moreover, it comes with the older grille (which in my opinion is so much better-looking than the walrus/chrome/bling/humongous headlights).

Just found that strange.. any comments??
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Old 2nd March 2010, 17:49   #899
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Originally Posted by '72 Bullet View Post
Another question for both Spike and Mr. Behram. Earlier there was a lot of talk about not being able to have the NEF engine and live axle on the Bolero platform. Strangely enough, Bolero campers in Nepal are available with the NEF engine and 4x4 with Live Axle. Moreover, it comes with the older grille (which in my opinion is so much better-looking than the walrus/chrome/bling/humongous headlights).

Just found that strange.. any comments??
1) The Thar Does not need a Solid Front Axle as it can do almost everything in Totality in 2WD

2) THAR IS ESSENTIALLY A SCORPIO.

And don't call me SIR JI.
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Old 2nd March 2010, 17:58   #900
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Originally Posted by '72 Bullet View Post
Strangely enough, Bolero campers in Nepal are available with the NEF engine and 4x4 with Live Axle. Moreover, it comes with the older grille (which in my opinion is so much better-looking than the walrus/chrome/bling/humongous headlights).

Just found that strange.. any comments??
Is this true Spike/ Behram sir? I have seen some off road videos in M&M international website where Bolero camper 4wd had solid axle. Is Nepal's Bolero camper using MDI 3200 TC/ NEF 2.5?
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