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Old 4th March 2010, 10:49   #931
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Does Mahindra have a FFRA which can be mated to a 4x4 gearbox? Meaning does the new 4x4 gearbox from Mahindra that features on Scorpios, require a offset like the old CJ3B axles? Basically what I am trying to suggest is if M&M has a FFRA that can be used for the 4x4 drive train no reason why it cannot be offered. If they don't have a FFRA which can be used suitably with a 4x4 drive train then we are wasting our time expecting it

Last edited by DKG : 4th March 2010 at 10:54.
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Old 4th March 2010, 10:54   #932
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
All said and done, we have to realize that M&M is a huge Bureaucracy. Bureaucracy doesn't let you do whatever you want. Bureaucracy often forces you to make the wrong decision. Bureaucracy can be affected to change only from the very top level and very slowly. So there is no point heckling Behram or Spike.

In other words, we can't get our perfect offroader from M&M. Until specialist companies like Iveco come to India, we are on our own, we gotta build our own perfect offroader.
Hi Sharath,

You sound like a man of experience (Top Level or Lower Level).

Why should we even bother to understand their bureaucracy, Is it to justify to ourselves, soothe ourselves, that our intelligence has been insulted, so to further re-affirm that intelligence we try to develop a better understanding of something far more abstract (another Organizations Bureaucracy).

They asked (Wish List), We Suggested, We did not get the Specs.

And now we get the Ramayana, Mahabharat & the Upanishads.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 4th March 2010, 11:03   #933
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I die slowly waiting for the Thar. On the other hand I have so much left to repaint and hammer the ole Bolero into mean looking beast I always wanted. Thar shar too late even for a pansy jeep rider like me.
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Old 4th March 2010, 11:49   #934
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - I think I can confidently state that whatever I have done to make this vehicle to get born to whatever dress level it is today,
=========
As this is a very healthy practice, only good shall come out of it, that much I promise you.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear Sir,

Appreciate the effort that you and your team are putting into this project.
But it's high time to tell us the approx launch date. Prospective THAR buyers have already started moving towards Gypsy.

Last edited by Jaggu : 4th March 2010 at 14:52. Reason: Please avoid Quoting entire large post for short replies. Thanks
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Old 4th March 2010, 12:31   #935
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Does Mahindra have a FFRA which can be mated to a 4x4 gearbox? Meaning does the new 4x4 gearbox from Mahindra that features on Scorpios, require a offset like the old CJ3B axles? Basically what I am trying to suggest is if M&M has a FFRA that can be used for the 4x4 drive train no reason why it cannot be offered. If they don't have a FFRA which can be used suitably with a 4x4 drive train then we are wasting our time expecting it
Hi DKG,

From what info I have.

Scorpio Left Off-Set 57" SFRA
Bolero Left Off-Set 53" FFRA
Bolero Left Off-Set 53 SFRA
Maxx Left Off-Set 59"

The the KMT90 4WD and NGT5204WD had Right Off-Set or Centre Diff.

The 53" Bolero Off-Set (Left Off-Set) FFRA can be used on the Thar, since it is using the Borg-Warner T-Case.

And don't you think they had enough time since the (Nov 2008) 540 wish-list thread to develop one.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 4th March 2010, 12:43   #936
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Hi Arka, are the pinion angles same for 53" SFRA and FFRA?

Spike
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Old 4th March 2010, 12:49   #937
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Hi Arka, are the pinion angles same for 53" SFRA and FFRA?

Spike
Hi Spike,

I don't know the Pinion Angle for either, but they are not the same.

The Differential Pinion Angle they will depend on
1) Orientation of Engine
2) Gear Box
3) Transfer Case
4) Type of Propeller Shaft (2 Cardan or 3 Cardan/CV)


Regards,

Arka

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Old 4th March 2010, 13:06   #938
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
I don't know the Pinion Angle for either, but they are not the same.

The Differential Pinion Angle they will depend on
1) Orientation of Engine
2) Gear Box
3) Transfer Case
4) Type of Propeller Shaft (2 Cardan or 3 Cardan/CV)
Dear Arka,

You are correct, the pinion angles are not the same, they are different. It is the orientation at which the engine is mounted which dictates how the remaining driveline will be oriented, thats it.

Spike

Last edited by Jaggu : 4th March 2010 at 14:53. Reason: Make the Quote's as brief as possible, helps in readability. Thanks
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Old 4th March 2010, 13:13   #939
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If Anand Mahindra was an avid off-roader, the wishlist of Arka and other avid off-roaders would have been addressed by the Thar Design. I know of vehicles designed by Indian companies, complete with CMVR certification but never sold in the market. Why did such vehicles get designed and manufactured? Each of them was the brainchild of the respective company's promoters.

But in reality, the Thar is a commercial project which in the end has to make money for Mahindra and Mahindra. So at best it is a good compromise between a regular car and an off-roader. Would I buy one? Yes, if it falls within my budget. As of now, I do not intend to get into hardcore off-roading. But I would like to own a Jeep that can take me on the highway as well as take me to places that my car cannot go.

Is that the end of the road? No. Hardcore off-roaders will be a miniscule of the Jeep buyers. There are several things that M&M can do to improve those numbers and their image and then create a vehicle that will cater to that niche market without really bothering about how much money they might rake in, out of such a venture. And given the capability of M&M in terms of variants that they already have today, putting together such a vehicle should not be difficult.

Case in Point. The bolero comes with IFS, but the 4x4 boleros come with non-IFS. A similar thing can be done with the Thar. But who will bell the cat?

-Biju

Last edited by pjbiju : 4th March 2010 at 13:16.
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Old 4th March 2010, 13:13   #940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Dear Arka,

You are correct, the pinion angles are not the same, they are different. It is the orientation at which the engine is mounted which dictates how the remaining driveline will be oriented, thats it.

Spike
So Spike, it is the engine orientation which decided to go for SFRA?
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Old 4th March 2010, 13:18   #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Dear Arka,

You are correct, the pinion angles are not the same, they are different. It is the orientation at which the engine is mounted which dictates how the remaining driveline will be oriented, thats it.
Hi Spike,
So now change the Pinion Angle of the 53" FFRA and fit it on the Thar.

And that is quite easy, its determined by the Spring Saddle on which the Leaf Spring is fitted, thereby aligning the Diff & Pinion Angle.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 4th March 2010, 13:35   #942
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Hi Biju,

For all the IFS, we ask for Uncle, but end up getting Aunty with Balls.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 4th March 2010, 13:45   #943
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Hi Biju,

For all the IFS, we ask for Uncle, but end up getting Aunty with Balls.

Regards,

Arka
Arka, you are simply unbeatable!!
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Old 4th March 2010, 14:03   #944
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[quote=Torque-ative;1762886]Initially I did think Arka was going heavy and too hard on M&M.

But honestly he is nothing but pushing them to out-do, out-think and out-perform themselves,..and in the end turning out the ultimate off-roader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Biju,

For all the IFS, we ask for Uncle, but end up getting Aunty with Balls.

Regards,

Arka

Hi Arka, you are truly the best and definitely distinguished.
We all want an offroader that we can be confident about and know that it has the fittings and fixtures that make it capable, mean and safe.
It does not make sense that we invest a large sum of money to buy the vehicle and again shed a lot more to make it fit the basic requirements of a capable 4X4.
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Old 4th March 2010, 14:38   #945
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Guys don't kill the possibility of a 4wd Thar even before it sees the light of a single day on Indian roads. Believe me if all this talk reaches the marketing guys at Mahindra you can kiss the 4wd Thar goodbye.

Its all nice to want powerful engines and leaf suspension and locking diff and fully floating axles. But it won't happen because the offroaders are too insignificant a market and a car purely meant as a offroader has little value in every other use.

So the Thar has to be something which caters to a wider segment. Let the car get released first. Quite understandably the Thar for M&M has to be a car first that will get some volumes for them and then with a ++ kind of approach they offer a 4wd. Which means a Thar with 4x4 and MLD and perhaps FFRA.

Last edited by DKG : 4th March 2010 at 14:42.
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