Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Vehicles


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th March 2010, 01:27   #1006
BHPian
 
offroad_maniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Thane-Mumbai
Posts: 453
Thanked: 35 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
One of my fav video- Most of you must have seen this. Also signifies the strength of the solid axle! check out at 2.26 seconds, not bad i would say!

Look at the jump-
Nice videos.
BUT They are LAND ROVERS... we shouldn't be comparing British LRs or Italian IVECOS with OUR Mahindras.

Is it possible that Thar would have cost under 7 lakhs with Solid axles & Coil springs all over?

Anyways, If Mahindra is willing to lend me a Thar, I too can make a video or two inline with above posted.

If its not possible with IFS, then I will use below song as background music:

"Give me a sunshine... give me a rain...
Give me another chance.. I wanna grow up once again...."

Just kidding!

BTW I like below Black Thar very much. White is also looking good.
Thanks JeepMKD for the link. I am sure it will sell in good numbers here as well.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Jaggu : 8th March 2010 at 11:05. Reason: Please avoid Quoting U tube links in reply, readability. Thanks
offroad_maniac is offline  
Old 7th March 2010, 01:48   #1007
BHPian
 
offroad_maniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Thane-Mumbai
Posts: 453
Thanked: 35 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepMkd View Post
The Thar is coming to Austria these days, will be presented at the Absolut Allrad event
absolut allrad 2010 - Allrad- und Geländefahrzeuge
Quote:
Originally Posted by offroad_maniac View Post
Thanks JeepMkd,
There will be a Mahindra Thar along with Goa (Scorpio).
As the starting date is from Today 25 - 28 Feb 2010, So pls keep us posted.
BTW, is there any international review on Thar?

Here are translated links:
Information

Event
Hi JeepMkd,

can u post some update on Allard Event with Thar. Some thing like sales figure or a nice offroading review will be great.

BTW, can you please tell us what is the total Import Duty for vehicles imported from Asia. Is it 40-60% of vehicle tag (Including VAT)

Last edited by offroad_maniac : 7th March 2010 at 01:53.
offroad_maniac is offline  
Old 7th March 2010, 03:03   #1008
KMT
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Coorg
Posts: 207
Thanked: 130 Times
Default

Guys
As this forum has a huge concentration of offroad enthusiasts, the suggestions here are only going to meet the needs of a very small minority.

At the rate comments are taking on a personal note on this thread, we are doing an excellent job of ensuring nil participation by manufacturers in this forum in future.

Why does not everyone turn their guns on the other manufactures who do not even bother keeping us in the loop instead of repeatedly going like a broken record on what is wrong with the Thar?

I reckon that what is on the table today is exactly what a lot of mainstream demand will ask for. Govt, Rural, Plantation etc are a few that come to mind.

It is a big step up from what we are used to here in terms of an Invader 4x4 or Major 4x4.
KMT is online now  
Old 7th March 2010, 07:21   #1009
BHPian
 
star_aqua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 612
Thanked: 88 Times
Default

Hi Spike, i agree with you. but the intention was to know what R&D was made in retaining the capabilities of the 540. many here are not looking for a car which looks like a 540. A car with capabilities of 540.

A scorpio or bolero storm has everything which you have mentioned below. But what does the THAR has in it as an OFFROADER which is not there in scorpio apart from the body. A new thing which is designed specific to THAR, but again not cosmetics and comfort features please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Hi star_aqua that sounds very simple for you isn't it? Can you please answer a few questions as applied to a production MM540:-
1. Was there a MM540 with Air Intake system of a CRDe engine? This includes dirty hoses,intercooler hoses,intercooler,inlet manifold hoses,boost pressure sensors etc etc.

Air intake system of a CRDe. Do you mean turbo with intercooler? were these invented new for THAR? was it not available for scorpio or bolero and the routing of hoses was really such a difficult task for an OEM? wasn't it done before for scorpio or bolero? and that too under a 540 hood.

2. Was there a MM540 with modern Load sensing mechanisms required for braking?

Is this not available in scorpio or bolero? Load sensors are also part of emission control program. Not just for braking.

3. Was there a MM540 with exhaust system that met Euro IV/BS IV requirements?

A DPF? Oxicat? This is not R&D of M&M. or a SCR???

4. Was there a MM540 with Fuel system optimised for a modern CRDe?

this is also.. and you mean Low pressure system or the High pressure system. And is this not available in scorpio or bolero?

5. Was there a MM540 with butter smooth GB and TC capable of transmitting 30 kgm of torque?

Were these transmissions designed specifically for THAR?

6. Was there a MM540 with body panels designed for CRDe application?

you mean instrument cluster with one MIL, SVS, Tacho, ODO, etc with CAN interface?

7. Is there any MM540 which meets EMI/EMC norms?
doesn't the scorpio meet EMI\EMC norms?

8. Is there any MM540 which meets BS IV emission norms?
With a DPF and OxiCat, it should..

9. Was there a MM540 with a digital cluster and tachometer?
there is absolutely no pain in installing a digital cluster. The earlier ones had oil line for showing oil pressure, cable for fast idler, one more cable for speedo along with some electricals which required some pain during installation. the digital cluster needs only the tiny CAN line and power supply. and you can place the cluster left side or right side without any modifications in connections.

10. Was there a MM540 whose incabin noise would even put the best of diesel cars to shame ?

here we are not comparing the THAR with CAR.
11. Was there a MM540 with propeller shaft for such a different driveline?

Back to Arka's question, when a propeller shaft was taken care of, why not in terms of AXLE?

may be it would have been taken care, but there is no any info so far here proving its toughness.

Last edited by Jaggu : 8th March 2010 at 11:07. Reason: Making BOLD the inline replies. thanks
star_aqua is offline  
Old 7th March 2010, 09:22   #1010
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,548
Thanked: 424 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
1. Can you tell me how to optimise the Air intake system of the current CRDe setup?
I will post pictures shortly so that you can do the education bit


Quote:
Originally Posted by KMT View Post
At the rate comments are taking on a personal note on this thread, we are doing an excellent job of ensuring nil participation by manufacturers in this forum in future.

Why does not everyone turn their guns on the other manufactures who do not even bother keeping us in the loop instead of repeatedly going like a broken record on what is wrong with the Thar?

I reckon that what is on the table today is exactly what a lot of mainstream demand will ask for. Govt, Rural, Plantation etc are a few that come to mind.
You'd reckon: Well

As far as other manufacturers are concerned, they could join the forum if they want - after all it is free!

I do appreciate the fact that these guys have joined the forum and are talking to us, BUT, lets also understand that the forum is a public place wherein anyone can read about what is posted. So correct facts must be stated rather than marketed..

And we CAN post our 2 cents, cant we ?
headers is offline  
Old 7th March 2010, 09:27   #1011
BHPian
 
absynthguzzler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: hyderabad
Posts: 650
Thanked: 223 Times
Default

Quote:
I do appreciate the fact that these guys have joined the forum and are talking to us, BUT, lets also understand that the forum is a public place wherein anyone can read about what is posted. So correct facts must be stated rather than marketed..
That one line alone brings this thread back to 5* quality.
absynthguzzler is offline  
Old 7th March 2010, 09:32   #1012
BHPian
 
propeller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: INVERCARGILL - Land For Speed
Posts: 100
Thanked: Once
Default Guru Learner Fees

Hey Spike ,

Please let us know when you would come to Chennai , You need to give GURU Dhakasana to Arka and Now Headers .Looks like lot of learning.

Try and visit chennai we have a collection of vehicles which has been proved and tested and you can implement in THAR if satisties by " ... "

MM550 + Scorpio CRDE engine = " What Ever " is what is getting ready here - Now does that convinces you be in Chennai
propeller is offline  
Old 7th March 2010, 11:13   #1013
Senior - BHPian
 
SPIKE ARRESTOR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 2,653
Thanked: 679 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by propeller View Post
Hey Spike ,
Please let us know when you would come to Chennai , You need to give GURU Dhakasana to Arka and Now Headers .Looks like lot of learning.
Try and visit chennai we have a collection of vehicles which has been proved and tested and you can implement in THAR if satisties by " ... "
MM550 + Scorpio CRDE engine = " What Ever " is what is getting ready here - Now does that convinces you be in Chennai
Hi propeller, that sounds interesting, it would be nice if you could upload some pictures of the restoration.

Spike

OT- I don't mind coming to Chennai and paying Guru Dakshina to Arka and Headers, but only if I learn something new
SPIKE ARRESTOR is offline  
Old 7th March 2010, 11:22   #1014
BHPian
 
amrisharm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: siliguri/Darj
Posts: 504
Thanked: 298 Times
Default

No matter how much we discuss this topic, it all boils down to one thing, and that is PRICE. From what i gather, a 4x4 Major with no creature comforts will set you back about 4.5-4.8 lakhs. The made-to-order Souvenir with an outdated engine and suspension setup will set you back about 5.5-5.8 lakhs.

Where as the Thar with its modern engine and independent front suspension, power steering and so on and so forth am guessing will at least be priced at 7 lakhs OTR. With the kind of volumes expected for a car like this at a price like that, i seriously doubt it whether mahindra will ever launch it, and even if they do, I am quite certain the volume is going to be quite low.

So for us average folk looking for a cheap and tough 4x4, the wait continues :-).
amrisharm is offline  
Old 7th March 2010, 19:39   #1015
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,548
Thanked: 424 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amrisharm View Post
No matter how much we discuss this topic, it all boils down to one thing, and that is PRICE. From what i gather, a 4x4 Major with no creature comforts will set you back about 4.5-4.8 lakhs. The made-to-order Souvenir with an outdated engine and suspension setup will set you back about 5.5-5.8 lakhs.

Where as the Thar with its modern engine and independent front suspension, power steering and so on and so forth am guessing will at least be priced at 7 lakhs OTR. With the kind of volumes expected for a car like this at a price like that, i seriously doubt it whether mahindra will ever launch it, and even if they do, I am quite certain the volume is going to be quite low.

So for us average folk looking for a cheap and tough 4x4, the wait continues :-).
The THAR should retail at 5L ex showroom, after all they have used a 540 shell and it appears to be modern!! It may impress with its acceleration and torque figures but how rugged it is is anyone's guess!

It may serve the occasional off road desire of the guy who wants to take his girlfriend to the beach etc..

A THAR at 7L is way off the target and M&M are shooting themselves in the foot if they do price it like that..

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
I don't mind coming to Chennai and paying Guru Dakshina to Arka and Headers, but only if I learn something new

Forget the Guru Dakshina part, You still havent learnt something new after all these pages..

Please answer the questions asked in this thread and we'll take it further..

Last edited by Jaggu : 8th March 2010 at 11:08. Reason: Back to back posts, please use Multi Quote instead, Thanks
headers is offline  
Old 7th March 2010, 23:51   #1016
BHPian
 
offroad_maniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Thane-Mumbai
Posts: 453
Thanked: 35 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Please answer the questions asked in this thread and we'll take it further..
Can someone pls answer how exactly the Thar chassis is designed?
I am still confused over its design which is believed to be joint / mixture of Scorpio front & Bolero rear.

So how are they made sturdy enuff to take on all the offroading load & abuse?

I am sure there must be a weld or joint where the Front CinC & Rear BOX Rails are clubbed together
.
offroad_maniac is offline  
Old 8th March 2010, 10:52   #1017
Senior - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,454
Thanked: 1,789 Times
Default New/Improved/Upgrade/Mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
In market abroad a cheap jeep like Thar will provide base of extensive modifications. Without solid axle how big can you go on tyre upgrade? 29 inch fine but what about 35 inch/ 37 inch tyres? How Jeep wranglers have it can go for custom lifts. What will you do with Thar? How high can u body lift it?

You would ask me what percent of Thar would go for tyre upgrade? May be 1% of that 1% market, but abroad it is going to be 99% of the market who buys Thar.


Thar will sell no doubt! All i am afraid Thar may not be able to capture the real potential of 4x4 market abroad. It will end up being short of an Icon which it could be if it had solid axle with the other strong mechanical s which already it has!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Can you please answer a few questions as applied to a production MM540:-
1. Was there a MM540 with Air Intake system of a CRDe engine? This includes dirty hoses,intercooler hoses,intercooler,inlet manifold hoses,boost pressure sensors etc etc.
2. Was there a MM540 with modern Load sensing mechanisms required for braking?
3. Was there a MM540 with exhaust system that met Euro IV/BS IV requirements?
4. Was there a MM540 with Fuel system optimised for a modern CRDe?
5. Was there a MM540 with butter smooth GB and TC capable of transmitting 30 kgm of torque?
6. Was there a MM540 with body panels designed for CRDe application?
7. Is there any MM540 which meets EMI/EMC norms?
8. Is there any MM540 which meets BS IV emission norms?
9. Was there a MM540 with a digital cluster and tachometer?
10. Was there a MM540 whose incabin noise would even put the best of diesel cars to shame ?
11. Was there a MM540 with propeller shaft for such a different driveline?
Hi Spike,

The work done, improvements, are very welcome and refreshing, we all have seen the quality of the newer M&M Vehicles.

But Like Vinod has pointed out, with you above list and Solid Axle Leaf Springs the Thar would have been a runaway success with the Off-Road crowd, in Europe at it is a Cheap SWB.

Infact M&M has the distinction of using Dana 44 Front and Rear Axle since 1967.

A Solid Axle Thar with FFRA would have put M&M in the league of the OTR Bad-Boys (TLC/NisPat/LaRo/G-Wagen).

Infact the Wrangler Rubicon would have been jealous of the Thar's SOLID under-chassis.

With the Solid Axle setup, they Thar could have been easily customised to Individual Taste, with the support of the JEEP & Off-Road Afer Market Parts available in USA.

2/4/6 Leaf Spring Suspension Lift Kits
Shocks
Diff-Locks.

wrt. INDIAN Market
1) Will the Thar replace the Car/Sedan in Rural or Urban Areas?
2) Will it be the First/Only Car

Most probably it will be the Second Car, (Off-Road/Life Style Vehicle) in that case, people will accept the slightly lesser handling, marginally slower Solid Axle Version.

Those who buy the Thar, accidentally for OTRs, will Land up at the JEEPTHRILLS & TeamBhp OTRs, and then you know what will happen?

CAR-NAGE

wrt. your List

6. Why could you not make the body panels to accept the NEF 2.49 CRDi, with the Solid Axle?

That was one of the gripes for not converting a NGCS MM550XD to a NEF 2.49CRDi

Do you prefer to learn every thing by stumbling, like you did with the Army MM550XD
i) Free-Wheeling Hub + SFRA + LSD = Axle Failure.

Most drivers forgot to engage the FWHub during exercises/operations and in 2WD-Lo Ratio the Rear Diff was busted.

ii) Then in 2004 the NGCS MM550XD was launched without FWHub and FFRA.

For all the Mods you have Listed
i) Engine= More Torque
ii) GBox & TCase to Handle 30Kgm
iii) New Style Prop Shaft (is it 3 Cardan Shaft)

But you guys failed to incorporate a FFRA from the NGCS MM550.

The Rear Axle remains SFRA and the best you can tell people is to see if it fails, none of you have owned MM540/MM550, (maybe you think you know the vehicle, since you build it).

So you think you guys will buy a THAR, "OFF-ROAD" with it and see if it fails?

You have upgraded what was necessary on the MM550XD, but messed up with the Basics which was the strength of the MM550XD (Solid Axle/MRCBT Steering/Leaf Spring/FFRA)

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by ex670c : 8th March 2010 at 11:03.
ex670c is offline  
Old 8th March 2010, 12:35   #1018
Senior - BHPian
 
SPIKE ARRESTOR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 2,653
Thanked: 679 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
i) Free-Wheeling Hub + SFRA + LSD = Axle Failure.
Most drivers forgot to engage the FWHub during exercises/operations and in 2WD-Lo Ratio the Rear Diff was busted.
Hi Arka, which FWH are you referring to here?

Spike
SPIKE ARRESTOR is offline  
Old 8th March 2010, 12:48   #1019
Senior - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,454
Thanked: 1,789 Times
Default FWHub

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Hi Arka, which FWH are you referring to here?

Spike
Hi Spike,

See what, I mean, you guys don't even know your MM540-MM550XD series, and got about making an AWB.

Its the FWHub used on the CLASSICs and then carried over to the MM550XD.

The Selectable FWHubs used on M&M Vehicles were made by (Tick any one)
1) Warn
2) Saturn
3) Lambda
4) All of the Above
5) None of the Above

Regards,

Arka
ex670c is offline  
Old 8th March 2010, 13:33   #1020
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,548
Thanked: 424 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post

The Selectable FWHubs used on M&M Vehicles were made by (Tick any one)
1) Warn
2) Saturn
3) Lambda
4) All of the Above
5) None of the Above

Regards,

Arka
LOL, i wanna go back to school!! I tick 4 & 5
headers is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar! desertfox 4x4 Vehicles 740 2nd April 2015 22:28
Taking the Thar to the 'Thar'. 2000 kms, 3 childhood friends & an epic roadtrip Vroom barabar! Travelogues 30 25th March 2013 18:42
Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2! GTO 4x4 Vehicles 668 5th January 2011 17:04


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:35.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks