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Old 8th March 2010, 13:57   #1021
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
See what, I mean, you guys don't even know your MM540-MM550XD series, and got about making an AWB.
Its the FWHub used on the CLASSICs and then carried over to the MM550XD.
Arey baba, i know what FWH are, i was asking you whether you were referring it to the Thar?

Spike

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 8th March 2010 at 14:07.
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Old 8th March 2010, 14:04   #1022
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Can someone pls answer how exactly the Thar chassis is designed?
I am still confused over its design which is believed to be joint / mixture of Scorpio front & Bolero rear.

So how are they made sturdy enuff to take on all the offroading load & abuse?

I am sure there must be a weld or joint where the Front CinC & Rear BOX Rails are clubbed together
.
In the Bolero Storm which sports the same suspension config i.e. Scorpio IFS upfront and Leaf Springs in the rear, there is no welding in betwen.
May be Spike can confirm this, if he wants but my understanding is that the Storm chassis was modified from the normal bolero chassis by modifying the the Upper Arm holding points

The last 2 days, I had gone to a WLS and did a fair bit of off-roading through the jungle including crossing the rocky and sandy river beds on my Storm 4X2. Even though the storm did take all the terrain with quite a elan, it was no match to DKG's Jeep. It also got stuck at one place where the middle mound was too high and obtructed the rear diff. Arrival and deparature angles were not a problem and so was breakover angle. But the H/T tyres were absolutely clueless in sand.

Now why I'm talking about Storm on the Thar thread. It is because the Thar has a lot of similarities with the Storm especially where it matters, like engine, GB, Suspension setup and geometry, GC et al.

So my first and foremost request to M&M (thru M/s Spike & Behram Sir) would be to increase GC and provide as OEM better tyres (may be a Geolander A/T or sandluggers like in MM5550) apart from the list already prepared by our 4X4 Guru's here.

@Headers: Can I also get some 4X4 gyan without paying for guru dakshina. I'm willing to come down to Chennai
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Old 8th March 2010, 14:18   #1023
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If Bolero Storm is offered with 4WD, then THAR and STORM are same except the wheelbase and the BODY, interiors etc etc.. In this case everyone would prefer bolero STORM over THAR.
So do we have bolero STORM 4wd in the market???
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Old 8th March 2010, 14:22   #1024
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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
In the Bolero Storm which sports the same suspension config i.e. Scorpio IFS upfront and Leaf Springs in the rear, there is no welding in betwen.
May be Spike can confirm this, if he wants but my understanding is that the Storm chassis was modified from the normal bolero chassis by modifying the the Upper Arm holding points

The last 2 days, I had gone to a WLS and did a fair bit of off-roading through the jungle including crossing the rocky and sandy river beds on my Storm 4X2. Even though the storm did take all the terrain with quite a elan, it was no match to DKG's Jeep. It also got stuck at one place where the middle mound was too high and obtructed the rear diff. Arrival and deparature angles were not a problem and so was breakover angle. But the H/T tyres were absolutely clueless in sand.

Now why I'm talking about Storm on the Thar thread. It is because the Thar has a lot of similarities with the Storm especially where it matters, like engine, GB, Suspension setup and geometry, GC et al.

So my first and foremost request to M&M (thru M/s Spike & Behram Sir) would be to increase GC and provide as OEM better tyres (may be a Geolander A/T or sandluggers like in MM5550) apart from the list already prepared by our 4X4 Guru's here.
Hi Mile Cruncher,

The Front End of the Storm is from a 2WD Scorpio IFS Coil Springs
The Front End of the Thar is from a 4WD Scorpio IFS with Torsion Bar.

According to them you have best in the Class 200mm GC (minimum is 180mm) under the axle, with 235/70/16.

MM550XD is 238/243mm with 7.50X16 SandGrip/Bullet.

The best tyres according to M&M are JK Brute 4x4, so that is, that.

In case you have missed it, the IFS setup has reduce the Ramp Over Angle of the Thar to 15 Degrees, where as a stock MM540 with 6.00X16 was 27 Degrees.

I guess for the MM550XD it was 30 Degrees with 31" Tyres.

For comparison a Stock CJ3B with 6.00X16 i.e 28" is 34 Degrees.

Regards,

Arka

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Arey baba, i know what FWH are, i was asking you whether you were referring it to the Thar?

Spike
Hi Spike,

Why did you guys fit an Automatic FWHub?

What is the remedial action if the FWH Fails? Dust/Mud Fouling?

Regards,

Arka

PS - What if the CV Joint Rubber Boot gets ripped while driving off-road, in the middle of nowhere i.e mid way to Leh? What will happen to the Rzeppa Joint then? Or is it Benedix-Weiss Joint?

Last edited by Jaggu : 8th March 2010 at 15:49. Reason: Back to back posts, please use Multi Quote instead, Thanks
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Old 8th March 2010, 14:32   #1025
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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
@Headers: Can I also get some 4X4 gyan without paying for guru dakshina. I'm willing to come down to Chennai
Anirudha, welcome anytime buddy.. BTW, there is a JT 5th anniversary happening soon near Chennai. Kindly contact arka for details
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Old 8th March 2010, 14:41   #1026
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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Arey baba, i know what FWH are, i was asking you whether you were referring it to the Thar?

Spike

Thar shown has auto locking hubs. Are you guys making it fixed? I suggest so. Auto hubs are prone to failure. Lock it permanently reduce the cost of the vehicle further.

Manually locking hubs are better in-terms of serviceability and that can be an after market fitment.

SPike-, has the crankcase guard been fitted on Thar? This was our Alvakonda feedback.

Just noted even bolero Di turbo 4wd also doesn't have this guard any more. In our OTR 2007 November a CJ3b with B275 rested on its oil pan on a small hill mound. No damage due to this guard. Why they have been removed on recent vehicles? Thar would be a strict NO for any serious OTR without this as the engine oil sump is lying pretty low. Forget solid axle and FFRA but please prioritize on this.

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 8th March 2010 at 14:43.
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Old 8th March 2010, 14:44   #1027
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Just noted even bolero Di turbo 4wd also doesn't have this guard any more. In our OTR 2007 november 2007 a CJ3b with B275 rested on its oil pan on a small hill mound. No damage due to this guard. Why they have been removed on recent vehicles? Thar would be a strict NO for any serious OTR without this as the engine oil sump is lying pretty low. Forget solid axle and FFRA but please prioritize on this.

@myfriend VN: Please contact Mahindra Customization for all "extra" guards. What is provided is to be broken if not driven carefully
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Old 8th March 2010, 14:47   #1028
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post

According to them you have best in the Class 200mm GC (minimum is 180mm) under the axle, with 235/70/16.

MM550XD is 238/243mm with 7.50X16 SandGrip/Bullet.

The best tyres according to M&M are JK Brute 4x4, so that is, that.
Sir,

All that I meant in my post here that I hope that M&M doesn't supply the Thar with the regulation 235/70R16 Bridgestone H/T that they do in the Scorpio. If they want to sell a half decent 4x4, they need to supply with atleast half decent OEM equipment. They are known to botch lot of things last moment

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
In case you have missed it, the IFS setup has reduce the Ramp Over Angle of the Thar to 15 Degrees, where as a stock MM540 with 6.00X16 was 27 Degrees.

I guess for the MM550XD it was 30 Degrees with 31" Tyres.

For comparison a Stock CJ3B with 6.00X16 i.e 28" is 34 Degrees.

Regards,

Arka
Again, I'm not too knowledgeable on these matters but as much as my basic understanding goes, lower the Ramp Over Angle, higher is the chance of a vehicle to get beached. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers

Last edited by MileCruncher : 8th March 2010 at 14:50.
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Old 8th March 2010, 15:22   #1029
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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
@Headers: Can I also get some 4X4 gyan without paying for guru dakshina. I'm willing to come down to Chennai
Arrey, don't bring up topics like this man. In fact, I did go to Chennai for learning offroading in 2007. I didn't pay any guru dakshina to Arka or Headers. I don't want them to start thinking in terms of late-fee, etc.

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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
But the H/T tyres were absolutely clueless in sand.
Are you sure about your conclusion? In sand, H/T will do better than AT or MT. May be you struggled because of 2WD. I'll let the Palar experts to comment further on the sand offroading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
In case you have missed it, the IFS setup has reduce the Ramp Over Angle of the Thar to 15 Degrees, where as a stock MM540 with 6.00X16 was 27 Degrees.

I guess for the MM550XD it was 30 Degrees with 31" Tyres.

For comparison a Stock CJ3B with 6.00X16 i.e 28" is 34 Degrees.
Arka, I don't think 15 degree is the right number for Thar, it could be a typo on the Thar website. My Grand Vitara has a rampover angle of 19 degrees with a 103.9 inch wheelbase. Therefore, you are willing to believe that the Thar with 95 inch wheelbase is going to have 15 degree rampover angle? If that is true, we might as well stop talking about Thar and close this thread.
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Old 8th March 2010, 15:31   #1030
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Mile Cruncher,
I guess for the MM550XD it was 30 Degrees with 31" Tyres.

For comparison a Stock CJ3B with 6.00X16 i.e 28" is 34 Degrees.

Regards,

Arka
Wow is my CJ3B's break over angle really 34 degrees,..that makes me damn proud to own one..

I guess the wheelbase had the most part to play here...!
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Old 8th March 2010, 15:39   #1031
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Are you sure about your conclusion? In sand, H/T will do better than AT or MT. May be you struggled because of 2WD. I'll let the Palar experts to comment further on the sand offroading.
I also knew that H/T are better on Sand but on loose sandy river bed (similar to a sea beach), they were losing grip and digging themselves in. Whereas the NDMS on DKG's jeep were absolutely cutting through the sand and going firm. If I remember correctly he also was in 2WD at that point.

As a matter of fact the tyres that first came on Xenon - 205 R16 also used to come in Defender 90 & 110 are one of the best tyres for Sand & Slush.
Anyways look to hear from experts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torque-ative View Post
Wow is my CJ3B's break over angle really 34 degrees,..that makes me damn proud to own one..

I guess the wheelbase had the most part to play here...!
Wheelbase, yes! But equally important is the Ground Clearance/Height at the middle point of the wheelbase.

Last edited by MileCruncher : 8th March 2010 at 15:45.
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Old 8th March 2010, 15:49   #1032
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Arrey, don't bring up topics like this man. In fact, I did go to Chennai for learning offroading in 2007. I didn't pay any guru dakshina to Arka or Headers. I don't want them to start thinking ......


Are you sure about your conclusion? In sand, H/T will do better than AT or MT. May be you struggled because of 2WD. I'll let the Palar experts to comment further on the sand offroading.
...

stop talking about Thar and close this thread.
Sharat, Did I ever ask you for Guru Dakshina or Now that YOU gave me the idea, we can ask for late fees eh?

AT or MT thread pattern will do better on sand than HT anyday!!
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Old 8th March 2010, 16:04   #1033
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Sharat, Did I ever ask you for Guru Dakshina or
Oh great, let's forget it then.

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AT or MT thread pattern will do better on sand than HT anyday!!
Funny, I was under the impression that bald tyres are the best for sand. Quite opposite of what you are saying. Anyway, let's not go offtopic.
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Old 8th March 2010, 16:15   #1034
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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
I also knew that H/T are better on Sand but on loose sandy river bed (similar to a sea beach), they were losing grip and digging themselves in. Whereas the NDMS on DKG's jeep were absolutely cutting through the sand and going firm. If I remember correctly he also was in 2WD at that point.

As a matter of fact the tyres that first came on Xenon - 205 R16 also used to come in Defender 90 & 110 are one of the best tyres for Sand & Slush.
Anyways look to hear from experts

Wheelbase, yes! But equally important is the Ground Clearance/Height at the middle point of the wheelbase.
OT
Milecruncher,
DKG got away with it and you got stuck because of weight of the vehicle and nothing else. NDMS 600-16 are awful on sand. They dig in and you rev slightly you are on your axles. Cj3b is the only jeep that can survive on sand with NDMS 600-16. Plus you need a good driver.

When you have a weight disadvantage you got to have momentum. Slightly more speed even you would have cleared the stretch!

HT/AT/MT doesn't matter on pure sand- what matters is profile height of the tire, tire pressure and the driver. One has to compact sand and sail on it rather than dig into it. Sand grip just does that!


@samurai- Even i feel 15 degree is a typo. Cannot be that awful! At least it didn't appear to be that bad when looking at it. Spike if it is wrong then please communicate it to marketing dept.
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Old 8th March 2010, 17:26   #1035
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Funny, I was under the impression that bald tyres are the best for sand. Quite opposite of what you are saying. Anyway, let's not go offtopic.
I have seen similar kind of almost bald tyres used in dune rides. Just posting a few pic of the terrain and the tyres that were running on those trucks.

Mahindra Thar revealed at Autoexpo 2010-cimg7531.jpg
Mahindra Thar revealed at Autoexpo 2010-cimg7539.jpg
Mahindra Thar revealed at Autoexpo 2010-cimg7578.jpg

Last edited by jango : 8th March 2010 at 17:27.
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