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Old 16th March 2010, 20:13   #1156
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OT-I can see Vinod coming out with his professional expertise here

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Old 16th March 2010, 20:17   #1157
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Default Product positioning is the key-

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
OT-I can see Vinod coming out with his professional expertise here

Spike
Thank you Spike! Product positioning can either make or break a product no matter how solidly it is engineered.

Product ,place, price & promotion- The 4p's of marketing
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Old 16th March 2010, 20:36   #1158
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
6. NO AC PW, CL etc. Which means you cant leave any valuables in this vehicle.
This is a huge stumbling block for most. Buying a Thar and spending 1.5L to 2L on making it family friendly is not at all value for money. I feel very very few will opt for Mahindra Customisation option.

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Originally Posted by headers View Post
One CAN pay 7+ for the THAR IFF:

1. It has solid axle coil springs
2. Modern Lockable cabin with AC, Heater, PW, PS, ABS, TC etc.
3. NVH is under 50 dB inside at 80 kph
4. GOOD AT tyres
5. Front mounted winch as a std fitment
6. Good Comfortable seats with seatbelts for ALL passengers
7. FULL DIFF LOCKS front and REAR like the GURKHA from FORCE motors
8. Can ford atleast 3 feet of water with ease!
9. Has a modern multi reflector HL with built in fog lamps
10. A Slick Gearshift unlike the present ones - The NGT530R is by no means "slick"
I don't see how something like this can be provided at even 12L, that too for a low volume vehicle.

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Suzuki jimny Diesel 4wd will have the advantages of a Mini SUV and even if priced at 8 lakhs which one would anybody buy? Ok, even if it is Petrol which one would buy when you have solid axle coil spring suspension plus every other creature comfort?
Suzuki Jimny Diesel is a gift from god even at 10L, and a petrol is acceptable at 8L. It is offroad ready and family friendly at delivery time. It is the only offroad/family car that is possible under 10L, if it ever comes to India.
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Old 16th March 2010, 20:43   #1159
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OT: And i bet you jimny wouldnt move if launched at 10 lakhs
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Old 16th March 2010, 20:49   #1160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post

p.s- Why not a 3 door version of Thar with lockable cabin in future?
Vinod,
Slightly OT, But since we are talking about hard top Thar. Have a look at this three door Invader with Hard top.( Its a Taxi BTW) which I found on a recent trip to Cochin. Unfortunately I could click only the rear picture.

From the first look you thinks its a Sumo, But it not. I guess tail lamp is borrowed from Force Traveller.

Shibu

Mahindra Thar revealed at Autoexpo 2010-invader-hardtop.jpg
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Old 16th March 2010, 20:56   #1161
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Default Hard top

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Originally Posted by JeepCaptain View Post
Vinod,
Slightly OT, But since we are talking about hard top Thar. Have a look at this three door Invader with Hard top.( Its a Taxi BTW) which I found on a recent trip to Cochin. Unfortunately I could click only the rear picture.

From the first look you thinks its a Sumo, But it not. I guess tail lamp is borrowed from Force Traveller.

Shibu

Attachment 309193
Shibu,
Looks great i must say!! Very clean lines and a good job. BTW they are sumo victas tail lamps!

Invader needs a hard top the most if not Thar!
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Old 16th March 2010, 21:08   #1162
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
OT: And i bet you jimny wouldnt move if launched at 10 lakhs
It will because I will buy it at 10L. There isn't a single vehicle in India that is sold under 40L that is as offroad capable as the Jimny Diesel, plus it is family friendly. Once people understand that, 10L would look VFM.
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Old 16th March 2010, 21:26   #1163
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Quote:
Honestly Headers i don't have any issue here if it is functional.
You wanna put your money down for an outdated product - Great - Lets see how many are willing to do the same.

Quote:
Common headers you are joking! Ford Figo with 1.4 duratorq has ABS for 6 lakhs and so does swift. But look at the size of these vehicles, weight and engine displacement. Even if you over look every thing, look at volumes. Don't be so harsh on them and force them to go bankrupt
Thats exactly the point - Today, smaller displacement vehicles with much less engine power give your more VFM. Volumes dont matter here as it is going to be a plug in module from the Scorp family. Come on, its not that M&M is alien to technology.


Quote:
As we all know Thar is a good 3rd or 4th vehicle. Efforts must be made in future to make it 2nd vehicle in the family at least. That's where the volumes are!
So, again, are you willing to spend 7L+ for a 3rd or 4th vehicle??? To make it a second or first vehicle, one needs to look at it from a different angle!

Quote:
Priority for Mahindra is to price it keeping view of future competition. I don't want Thar to become a Mahindra Classic (in terms of practicality), an extinct breed struggling to find buyers in its last days.
LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Product positioning can either make or break a product no matter how solidly it is engineered.

Product ,place, price & promotion- The 4p's of marketing
Now, I know the secret!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
This is a huge stumbling block for most. Buying a Thar and spending 1.5L to 2L on making it family friendly is not at all value for money. I feel very very few will opt for Mahindra Customisation option.

I don't see how something like this can be provided at even 12L, that too for a low volume vehicle.

Suzuki Jimny Diesel is a gift from god even at 10L, and a petrol is acceptable at 8L. It is offroad ready and family friendly at delivery time. It is the only offroad/family car that is possible under 10L, if it ever comes to India.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
OT: And i bet you jimny wouldnt move if launched at 10 lakhs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
It will because I will buy it at 10L.
Samurai, many are not as lucky as you are: IMO a Jimny DDiS at 7 or 8L would be optimum.

Market is all about the product and pricing like my guru said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Product positioning can either make or break a product no matter how solidly it is engineered.

Product ,place, price & promotion- The 4p's of marketing
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Old 16th March 2010, 22:43   #1164
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
Samurai, many are not as lucky as you are: IMO a Jimny DDiS at 7 or 8L would be optimum.
What is luck got to do with it?
You don't need luck to push the 7-8L budget to 10L, if the car has everything you need. You just need to be desperate for a family friendly offroad vehicle.
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Old 17th March 2010, 01:17   #1165
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Dear Spike and Behramji,
A friend of mine had the experience of a stone puncturing the Front-mount-intercooler causing problems that almost consumed the engine.
I don't think one can repair a punctured Intercooler. And it is not going to be cheap replacing it either.
I would strongly suggest a insect guard from the factory to protect the Intercooler at the least.
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Old 17th March 2010, 10:41   #1166
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Default What is the THAR?

What the Company Says

1) Its a Farm Only Vehicle for Europe, which they expect us INDIANs to lap up as godsend.
1) IFS
2) SFRA

I wonder if these were on top of the spec sheet for a Farm Vehicle, please go through the evolution of the Land-Rover Series.

2) The Designers call it a Scorpio, the public wanted a NGCSMM550XD look-alike to play Sunday Warrior.

3) The Brochure hints at it being an evolution of the legendary CJ5. How desperate can they get, (They could have said its an evolution of the MM550XD, I know that would have pissed us even more) What ever happened to believing in your own products & National Pride.

What is it Mechanically

1) Poor Execution of a tried and tested design, as Gaurev Prabhakar quoted, the THAR should have aimed at taking the MM550 to the next level.

Its actually bought the Scorpio down a few levels.

2) Farm Only vehicle with IFS & FFRA. What is it expected to do on a South African Farm? a Safer and more Stable ATV? or a rugged work horse.

BTW all the South African M&M Line up is IFS (Scorpio Derived).

Why not something different.

3) Attention to detail is non-existent. especially for an off-road vehicle.
1) Head Light Guards
2) Brush Guard/Insect Screen
3) Running Board - get rid of
4) Drain Plugs on the Floor Boards.

Also these add to the "LOOKS" of the Thar.

To the Prospective Buyer

1) Is it a family off-roader? No

i) Do you really think you can travel in a ST JEEP with Kids jumping around in the back?

ii) Do you think the hard-top will give you any additional safety?

iii) Do you think the Thar can off-road? If Family OTRs = MGE;then YES

The closest to a Family off-roader is the Scorpio or the Bolero from M&M

2) Is it a Lifestyle Vehicle.
i) If it looks like the South African model then
a) My milkman/sweeper/cops/Govt. Servant will make fun of me.

ii) If it looks like the Auto-Expo vehicle, I will be a movie prop. from
a) Telegu Movie
b) Tamil Movie
c) Punjabi Pind-da Music Video
d) Hindi/Tamil DISCO genre Movie

iii) If it LOOKED like a NGCSMM550XD (with the works, fender flares/insect scree/taller tyres) even in Hello Kitty Blue and Pink Tones it still would have been a JEEP and a MM540. And the Off-Roaders would become more caring, sensitive and World Peace.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 17th March 2010, 12:22   #1167
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rear bench seats on a highway cruiser with half back door. how safe is it? can you imagine sitting in scorpio on the rear bench seats with half door. the amount of speed it can achieve on the highway, quick acceleration and quick halt would throw the passenger back or forth.

Nobody would like to be seated on the side facing bench seats on a fast cruiser. In INDIA the less powered vehicles are allways safer than then the more powerful vehicle. How many accidents were recorded for a 540 in its whole life time and how many for scorpio?
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Old 17th March 2010, 14:10   #1168
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Default Family Friendly

Hi Sharath,

You have been mentioning Family Friendly and Off-Road Capable in the same line.

And in your search for both you have ended up with 2 different vehicles.

Could you please define Family Friendly and Off-Road Capable in your own words and in your context, with your own Spec-List.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 17th March 2010, 15:49   #1169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
It will because I will buy it at 10L. There isn't a single vehicle in India that is sold under 40L that is as offroad capable as the Jimny Diesel, plus it is family friendly. Once people understand that, 10L would look VFM.
Yes you and a bunch of others might sell, but it will be a slow moving resulting in slow death model at 10 lakhs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
What is luck got to do with it?
You don't need luck to push the 7-8L budget to 10L, if the car has everything you need. You just need to be desperate for a family friendly offroad vehicle.
Its basically a short wheel base 2 seater vehicle which has evolved, so though it might have better creature comforts dont expect anything major from it wrt family car comforts.

Honestly do you think indian junta will spend 10 lakhs for this or go buy a scorpio or safari?
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Old 17th March 2010, 16:28   #1170
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I feel 6 lakhs is fair game. Beyond that it is getting trickier.

@vinod the hatch backs you mentioned for 6 lakhs normally come with ABS, airbags, etc.

If Thar is priced above 7 lakhs, I feel that rush of gypsies and jeeps appeararing on the team bhp classifieds will go off the market.
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