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Old 7th January 2010, 06:44   #121
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Dear Behram:

It's a great effort. My question is why did M&M not consider a SWB like CJ3B to develop the offroader. I am sure you must have seen what ICON have done on the CJ3B with "The Dog".
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Old 7th January 2010, 07:27   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - thank you for all your very correct comments. So, now you have seen the vehicle at the Auto Expo. This is great. I will be at the stall next to my beloved project vehicle for 3 full days, starting tomorrow. Now, to clear some of your comments, I may like to mention as follows:

Displaying LHD or RHD vehicle does not matter. If LHD can be manufactured, RHD can also be manufactured.

Please note that in order to sell the vehicle in any country, it needs to pass through a very elaborate homologation process. This is true for India also. The vehicle needs to meet the relevant CMVR (Central Motor Vehicle Rules). This includes exhaust emissions, noise, safety requirements, external projections etc. Therefore, it becomes a natural resultant that only a vehicle which shall successfully meet the CMVR shall finally see light of day in production. I think this should put all "bling bling" type speculations to rest once and for all. "Bling blings" cannot come in production even if someone wanted them to. That said, I would like to compliment our fellow Team-BHPian Ym-enjn for his post nos 232 / 234 / 236. So, dear friends, now may I humbly request you to please move away from the "bling bling" related comments which I have clarified and use the data in posts 232 / 234 / 236 to give your actual comments on the vehicle. Let's start this healthy debate. Myfirst salvo - Performance? - this thing does things in 2WD where other average 4WD vehicles will falter. Just look at it. 105 v/s 60 BHP. 27 v/s 12 kgm. Is there any comparison?

I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS WANT A NO NONSENSE 4*4 AND NOTHING ELSE. YOU SHALL GET IT, AND GET IT SOONER THAN YOU THINK AND IT SHALL BE AFFORDABLE TOO. IT SHALL ALSO MEET CMVR.

Don't worry guys, stay cool, things shall happen ! Come to the Auto Expo, 3 days, starting tomorrow. I look forward to meeting all of you.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Behram Sir,

Thanks for your comments. Would like to have a few things clarified:
  1. What about the steering? Will it be Power Assisted ?
  2. Will the vehicle be available in Hard Top as well or only Soft Top?
  3. Will it be only 1+1 seater or can we expect CMVR Certified 4/5 seater only ?
If the answer to all the above questions is YES, then I guess its time to put up my Bolero in the block.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Cheers
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Old 7th January 2010, 07:42   #123
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Mr. Behram,
Awesome, your words were re-assuring.
Thanks so much for making my dream to come true
I would love to drive a very practical thar.

Last edited by Aditya : 7th January 2010 at 10:18. Reason: Removing tags.
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Old 7th January 2010, 09:10   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
American JEEP has 7 bar grill.

M&M has 6 bar and 7 slot grill. no copy right or other issues
involved!
You mean the CJ2/ 3/ 5/ 7/ Cherokees came with a 7 bar 8 slot grille? Didn't know that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all Myfirst salvo - Performance? - this thing does things in 2WD where other average 4WD vehicles will falter. Just look at it. 105 v/s 60 BHP. 27 v/s 12 kgm. Is there any comparison?

I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS WANT A NO NONSENSE 4*4 AND NOTHING ELSE. YOU SHALL GET IT, AND GET IT SOONER THAN YOU THINK AND IT SHALL BE AFFORDABLE TOO. IT SHALL ALSO MEET CMVR.

Don't worry guys, stay cool, things shall happen ! Come to the Auto Expo, 3 days, starting tomorrow. I look forward to meeting all of you.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir,
If I had known that I could have met you in person, I surely would have gone to the AutoExpo!
I like what I see (I don't mean the bling), but most important is price and delivery schedules. Can I pick up around five before March?
Will there be variants (Wheelbases/ options like hardtop/ AC/ heater/ PS.)

My requirements/ priorities are rather different from other forum members.
Life cycle cost. The old MMs were indestructible. With some begrudgingly given, nontender care, they would keep running.
How abuseproof. By abuse, I mean the tendency of maintainence only when something fails. Not preventive/ predictive maintainence.
How reliable, esp. given the above This is important for us.
How unskilled mechanic friendly. No offence meant, but MM A.S.S. falls in that category. (And can the fanbelt be changed on the road!)
I hope no electronics. The thought process behind lever actuation of the BW TC has to be applauded.
The IFS, as well as the direct rack and pinion steering mean it will not be as capable off road as the older live axled ones, BUT I PREFER THIS HIGHWAY ORIENTED COMPROMISE.
Hope the turbo can take water splashes when running red hot, or is adequately protected against it.
Exhaust is too vulnerable.
Hope brake and fuel pipes are adequately protected.
Hope fuel filters are under positive pressure. Easier to spot/ repair a diesel leak than an air leak.

One very important question. How safe are the vehicles. That off course cannot be evaluated by eyeballing.

In our small fleet of seven vehicles, I see need for only one SWB, without doors, and one LWB 5 passenger + luggage + AC tourer. The LWB to be cheaper than the Bolero 4x4s, otherwise no point.

Hats off to your personal vision and dedication in bringing us this.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 7th January 2010, 09:15   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
I hope no electronics.
This is a CRDe engine with ECU, how you can avoid electronics?
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Old 7th January 2010, 09:18   #126
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
This is a CRDe engine with ECU, how you can avoid electronics?
You are right . Should have said no unnecessary (rain sensing wipers, park assist etc.) electronics.

Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 7th January 2010 at 09:30.
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Old 7th January 2010, 09:46   #127
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The kerb weight is listed as 1750 kgs !! That's a lot for a open top Jeep. The Rubicon with a V6 is at 1400 kg

I guess the dud must be the cast iron block. I realised the flywheel on the DI is about 27 kgs alone ! I wonder if the CRDe has a similar flywheel.

Give customers the option of ordering this vehicle with the new mHawk engine too, and charge more. Perhaps aluminium bonnet if not the whole body?

Last edited by DKG : 7th January 2010 at 09:51.
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Old 7th January 2010, 09:55   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all

Displaying LHD or RHD vehicle does not matter. If LHD can be manufactured, RHD can also be manufactured.

My first salvo - Performance? - this thing does things in 2WD where other average 4WD vehicles will falter. Just look at it. 105 v/s 60 BHP. 27 v/s 12 kgm. Is there any comparison?

I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS WANT A NO NONSENSE 4*4 AND NOTHING ELSE. YOU SHALL GET IT, AND GET IT SOONER THAN YOU THINK AND IT SHALL BE AFFORDABLE TOO. IT SHALL ALSO MEET CMVR.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear All,

An RHD is in existence.

Undoubtedly, performance wise this Jeep can outperform most 4X4's in a 2WD mode hands down due to its 105 v/s 60 BHP. 27 v/s 12 kgm and
power to weight ratio.

IN TERMS OF A TRUE BLOODED 4X4 THIS VEHICLE LACKS NOTHING. CHASSIS AND SUSPENSION ARE A WORK OF ART WHICH TRANSLATE INTO HIGHER LEVELS OF UNBELIVEABLE COMFORT AND HANDLING.

Also it is significant to mention here that Mr. Behram is the spearhead in the R&D of this vehicle and can be called the father of this Jeep.

The cosmetic part of the Concept variant at the expo may not be offered in the Indian market as it will shoot up the production cost and result in a higher retail price.

I have my 7L ready for this Jeep only for what it has to offer in Engine, Transmission and Suspension. There are many design flaws in the cosmetic department but that is not the part of the discussion here.

Regards,
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Old 7th January 2010, 10:06   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - thank you for all your very correct comments. So, now you have seen the vehicle at the Auto Expo. This is great. I will be at the stall next to my beloved project vehicle for 3 full days, starting tomorrow. Now, to clear some of your comments, I may like to mention as follows:

Displaying LHD or RHD vehicle does not matter. If LHD can be manufactured, RHD can also be manufactured.

Please note that in order to sell the vehicle in any country, it needs to pass through a very elaborate homologation process. This is true for India also. The vehicle needs to meet the relevant CMVR (Central Motor Vehicle Rules). This includes exhaust emissions, noise, safety requirements, external projections etc. Therefore, it becomes a natural resultant that only a vehicle which shall successfully meet the CMVR shall finally see light of day in production. I think this should put all "bling bling" type speculations to rest once and for all. "Bling blings" cannot come in production even if someone wanted them to. That said, I would like to compliment our fellow Team-BHPian Ym-enjn for his post nos 232 / 234 / 236. So, dear friends, now may I humbly request you to please move away from the "bling bling" related comments which I have clarified and use the data in posts 232 / 234 / 236 to give your actual comments on the vehicle. Let's start this healthy debate. Myfirst salvo - Performance? - this thing does things in 2WD where other average 4WD vehicles will falter. Just look at it. 105 v/s 60 BHP. 27 v/s 12 kgm. Is there any comparison?

I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS WANT A NO NONSENSE 4*4 AND NOTHING ELSE. YOU SHALL GET IT, AND GET IT SOONER THAN YOU THINK AND IT SHALL BE AFFORDABLE TOO. IT SHALL ALSO MEET CMVR.

Don't worry guys, stay cool, things shall happen ! Come to the Auto Expo, 3 days, starting tomorrow. I look forward to meeting all of you.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
thanks for a very assuring reply and im looking forward to the the utlimate offroad 4WD vehicle by M&M for the indian customer.

i shall call you today to thank you personally.

Great Job Behram saab if you can give us what you wrote in your reply.

just my 5-6 lakhs for this THAR!
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Old 7th January 2010, 10:23   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
just my 5-6 lakhs for this THAR!
Parm,
The Mahindra Major sells for about 5 lakhs.
If only you see the giant leap in technology and the disparity in both Jeeps,
I am positive you will have no second thoughts in changing your mind.
Regards,
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Old 7th January 2010, 10:25   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - thank you for all your very correct comments. So, now you have seen the vehicle at the Auto Expo. This is great. I will be at the stall next to my beloved project vehicle for 3 full days, starting tomorrow. Now, to clear some of your comments, I may like to mention as follows:

Displaying LHD or RHD vehicle does not matter. If LHD can be manufactured, RHD can also be manufactured.

Please note that in order to sell the vehicle in any country, it needs to pass through a very elaborate homologation process. This is true for India also. The vehicle needs to meet the relevant CMVR (Central Motor Vehicle Rules). This includes exhaust emissions, noise, safety requirements, external projections etc. Therefore, it becomes a natural resultant that only a vehicle which shall successfully meet the CMVR shall finally see light of day in production. I think this should put all "bling bling" type speculations to rest once and for all. "Bling blings" cannot come in production even if someone wanted them to. That said, I would like to compliment our fellow Team-BHPian Ym-enjn for his post nos 232 / 234 / 236. So, dear friends, now may I humbly request you to please move away from the "bling bling" related comments which I have clarified and use the data in posts 232 / 234 / 236 to give your actual comments on the vehicle. Let's start this healthy debate. Myfirst salvo - Performance? - this thing does things in 2WD where other average 4WD vehicles will falter. Just look at it. 105 v/s 60 BHP. 27 v/s 12 kgm. Is there any comparison?

I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS WANT A NO NONSENSE 4*4 AND NOTHING ELSE. YOU SHALL GET IT, AND GET IT SOONER THAN YOU THINK AND IT SHALL BE AFFORDABLE TOO. IT SHALL ALSO MEET CMVR.

Don't worry guys, stay cool, things shall happen ! Come to the Auto Expo, 3 days, starting tomorrow. I look forward to meeting all of you.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Sir,

This is very promising and we Indian offroaders are very happy to see that finally Thar is making its way to our roads.

Thanks for the confirmation (I'm also going to take one from the showroom when it is made available)

If only the AutoShow happening in Chennai, I would have been surely able to meet you anyway thanks a lot for the invitation.

We from Chennai are happy that the R&D team of Mahindra is fully relocating to Chennai. Thats a great news and I hope to see you soon in Chennai roads. I knew that the Xylo R&D was based upon your chennai center now I can see many more happening from this part of the country.



-Siva

Last edited by trammway : 7th January 2010 at 10:30.
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Old 7th January 2010, 10:26   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Parm,
The Mahindra Major sells for about 5 lakhs.
If only you see the giant leap in technology and the disparity in both Jeeps,
I am positive you will have no second thoughts in changing your mind.
Regards,
i agree with you fazal but 7 lakhs for a pure offroad 4WD, i need a family vehicle too besides a 4WD!
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Old 7th January 2010, 10:30   #133
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I have been waiting with bated breath for Mr. Dhabar to say what he just did - Thanks Sir ! Am waiting as well for the price to be announced. The specs look nice - pricing will be key. All other add-ons can be done later.
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Old 7th January 2010, 10:30   #134
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
EDIT: Torsion bar front, is it a good idea for heavy offroading?
+1, I feel the underbody is too complicated and is asking for a lot of trouble even is less than EXTREME OTR conditions.

Guys, 1 question - In the thread "what you want in a new5x0", all of you demanded a lot of things. Why did no one demand the PLAIN-JANE existing Military 550 in a civilian trim or just the Major with minor mods to make it better.

A Jeep is a Jeep when it is simple, less complicated, and easy to abuse and repair. Ask any Jeep Owner. I am one.

All this IFS, CAT-CONV, etc etc, is taking this to a car trim and one cant afford to break these often and fix them! What if M&M can take the Major with the OKBJ and NGC(s), and plonk in the Scorpio engine with a BS-II trim and see what the costs would be.

Hint - If a simple Major would cost 4.75 OTR, guys please do the math what would the above pics THAR would cost!! I am sure it would exceed 8Lacs. In case any one wants pricing in SouthAfrica I would be glad to arrange a pro-forma from there, i got contacts there. Just wait until it launches there...
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Old 7th January 2010, 10:31   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
i agree with you fazal but 7 lakhs for a pure offroad 4WD, i need a family vehicle too besides a 4WD!
This can be customised into a family vehicle by adding an aftermarket cabin and AC. At least that is my plan.
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