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Old 15th January 2010, 16:17   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyboy4u View Post
Weren't there rumours of a new BS IV Gypsy ?? just wondering ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by COUGAR View Post
well the new Maruti will just reprogram the ECU to make the Gypsy BS4 Compliant.
From what I understand the current range of 1.1L (Wagon R), 1.3 (Esteem, Van, Gypsy) maruthi engines are not BSIV compliant and it will cost them a lot to make these engines BS1V compliant.

That is why many of their products like the Eecko are being relaunched with the new 1.2 K series engine. This will be the only option to make the Gypsy BSIV compliant. Given that bulk of the Gypsies are sold to armed forced who do not have to meet the BSIV requirement, I doubht Maruthi would go through the effort of upgrading the Gypsy to the 1.2 K series engine just for a handful of civilian orders.

As far as I know the only existing engine they will upgrade to BS IV is the 1.1 L engine from Wagon R as the Wagon R sells in good numbers and they have an issue shoe horning the 1.2L K series engine into the Wagon R. I feel the swift too will get relaunched with the 1.2 K Series engine like in the Ritz.

@COUGAR:

You cannot make an engine BSIV compliant by purely tweaking the ECU. If it were that simple, the existing models that use ECU could all be made BSIV compliant without any cost to the manufacturer.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 15th January 2010 at 16:22.
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Old 15th January 2010, 17:00   #17
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Hi , are the changes for the new gypsy only inside or is it going to be cosmetic also ? can some please post pictures of the new gypsy.
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Old 15th January 2010, 18:08   #18
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@arjunrudra:

There is no new gypsy planned. The thread is about new as in new from the showroom as opposed to second hand. Not a *new* model/version of the gypsy.
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Old 15th January 2010, 19:45   #19
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
As parm pointed out. If you don't mind the petrol and can live with a mileage of about 10kmpl with petrol then gypsy is a good option as the price is very reasonable for a brand new vehicle with 4x4. The disadvantage is that it is bumpy due to leaf springs all around and light weight.

The Thar is diesel and will have good mileage. Also the ride will be better due to the IFS in the front and it is a lot more powerful than the gypsy which just about has enough power to keep it moving. You cannot even compare the torque numbers of both engines. The drawback is that most likely you will have to pay about 6 lakhs for the vehicle and do the hard top yourself or send it to mahindra customization for a hard top.

I feel you won't go wrong with either so end of the day it's you call keeping in mind the following
1) Off Road Capability (Tie or possibly in favour of Gypsy)
2) Fuel efficiency (Thar)
3) Ride comfort (Thar)
4) power/pick up (Thar all the way)
5) Availability (Thar is still a dream at this point)
6) Resale (My guess is Thar due to above mentioned reasons, but I could be wrong)
7) Price (Gypsy is more affordable and can be ordered new with hard top)
8) Maintenance costs (Gypsy maybe cheaper to maintain give it's old school petrol powertrain, no expensive deisel filter changes, etc..)
9) Gypsy engine is not BSIV compliant so you may not be able to register it in cities after the cut off date.
OK - I am leaning more toward Thar. I think Gypsy is still formidable - even in stock form. I havent seen Thar yet but from what everyone is saying it looks pretty good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
AJ, Parm,
This diesel does not clatter, take my word for it!
AJ, After you have been driving on I-20 and the tollway, back here both vehicles are capable of taking the Indian road situations. Had it been a choice between a Gypsy and 540/550, I would recommend a Gypsy.
THAR has completely changed the complexion and equation of the Indian 4X4 scene. It has a cruising advantage unlike its predecessors.
The giant leap in technology is what you have to keep in mind especially when the pricing is nearly the same.
Regards,
Hi Fazal, yes, I think Thar would be a better option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayBerry View Post
ajdallas:
Go for Thar, its the best 4X4 in India atleast per spec. I am sure you will also have a better resale value after 2 years, if you plan to sell
Resale value after 2 years is a good point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by prashant03 View Post
I would prefer the Thar any day. The Gypsy just looks and feels so dated.

Saw the Thar at the Auto Expo, and it did look pretty awesome.
Hi Prashant, how different is the Thar from the MM540/550 as far as road presence and looks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
AJ, Parm,
This diesel does not clatter, take my word for it!
AJ, After you have been driving on I-20 and the tollway, back here both vehicles are capable of taking the Indian road situations. Had it been a choice between a Gypsy and 540/550, I would recommend a Gypsy.
THAR has completely changed the complexion and equation of the Indian 4X4 scene. It has a cruising advantage unlike its predecessors.
The giant leap in technology is what you have to keep in mind especially when the pricing is nearly the same.
Regards,
I-20 and Tollway, I am assuming you are familiar with Dallas...??

Last edited by Jaggu : 15th January 2010 at 20:20. Reason: Back to back posts, use Multi Quote (Quote +) instead. Thanks
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Old 15th January 2010, 21:06   #20
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4x4addict thanks for your detailed reply.

Slightly off topic when are the BS IV guidelines coming into effect ? As far as I know there will be a cut off date after which only BS IV vehicles can be registered. When is the date and what all states/places in India are covered?
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Old 19th January 2010, 23:02   #21
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Default after many years found a gypsy displayed in a maruti showroom

HI ALL,surprise!! when my way back to home in saibabacolony(coimbatore) i used to pass jaykrishna maruti and today when i'm pasing the showroom just saw a Gypsy and right away parked my car and went straight away to meet SM coz normal salesman mayn't have much info about our Real Tool.So from the SM i came to know that they have not one but two more soft top white colour gypsies and maruti is pushing the last stocks what they have on their yards due to the Engine upgradation due on march 31st.And as from his limited sources he tells that gypsy will be getting the k series engine and swift will also getthe same engine it seems..Any confirmation on this..!!
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Old 19th January 2010, 23:23   #22
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Dear,

You need to think between petrol & diesel. this is the key to discussion.

If you are comfortable with Diesel torque go for thar, if you like acceleration gyosy is what u should get.

Personally for off roading i would prefer to get low rpm torque via Diesel engine
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Old 20th January 2010, 01:22   #23
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Default Diesel Vs Petrol

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Originally Posted by SamtheLeo View Post
Dear,

You need to think between petrol & diesel. this is the key to discussion.

If you are comfortable with Diesel torque go for thar, if you like acceleration gyosy is what u should get.

Personally for off roading i would prefer to get low rpm torque via Diesel engine
Talking about petrol Vs diesel, engine design has advanced leaps and bounds. Gone are the days where vibration, pick up, cranking the engine, etc was an issue,. today's diesel engines have developed so much that you can never ever imagine. Thar has one like that.
Some points to compare are,
Diesel engine has higher compression ratio - which leads to more wear and tear, but with advanced material science and heat treatment process this issue has been addressed to a great extent. Note that diesel is a low rpm engine as the calorific value of diesel is higher (greater energy is produced by burning lower quantity of fuel), hence reducing wear and tear.
Petrol engine has a very low compression ratio - hence low maintenance, wear and tear is lower, etc - I would recommend a petrol vehicle for people who hardly drive - like an average of 100 to 500 KM per month
Also the size of the engine matters - petrol is good for a small engine and diesel is good for a large engine,. relate that to a vehicle size as well.
Of course - Deisel engine have high torque, better mileage (better efficiency), environment friendly. Down side - heavy and large.
Petrol engine - you can hardly know or feel it running, keeps your engine clean (less oxidation and carbon), light in weight. Down side - expensive in case of high usage, low torque.
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Old 20th January 2010, 05:25   #24
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Let us not forget service and support. Maruti has it. Mahindra has got squat zero, nada, nothing and dealing with their service people is just a big pain in the ***. You have to take your lawyer and a big stick with you to get warranty work done.

But this fellow is going to live in Mumbai. This is probably one of the best places in India to get a Mahindra serviced...with a smile even. This site has a connection with Milestone Mahindra. This is a premier Mahindra dealer. The site owner of Team-BHP, GTO, has a special rapport with Milestone. See

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...back-road.html (Mahindra Classic 4x4. 2.5 Liter Diesel. Back on the road!)

In addition, Behram Dhabhar, an eccentric top Mahindra Engineer and motorhead, is also a member of this site. If you ask him, he will come to your house 24/7 and hand wash your Thar for you for free, let me guide you in totality on this, it's a true fact.

Buy the Thar. The cards are stacked for you that way. Modern diesels are great. They now last twice as long as a petrol (no joke). I have come to love the sound of a diesel. I have removed my radio so that I can hear that beloved diesel clatter better.

I live at the front range of the Himalayas. Here they service yaks better than Mahindras and a yak warranty is honored. But you are in the right place for a Thar. Go for it.

Last edited by DirtyDan : 20th January 2010 at 05:28.
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Old 20th January 2010, 08:55   #25
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I would suggest the Bolero 4x4, far better daily drive too. Resale should be better IMHO.

Thar ! its not yet launched and they showed a LHD one at the Expo right?
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Old 20th January 2010, 10:03   #26
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@JK Das:

Bolero 4x4 comes with leaf springs at front and you have a choice of two underpowered engines. 63 bhp Turbo DI and 68 bhp XD3P (Not BSIII and cannot be registered in Metros). The DI has no AC or PS. Not sure on what basis you are suggesting the Bolero over the Thar which is superior to the Bolero in just about every aspect it terms of power train and refinement. Generaly for someone one who plans to buy a Tractor, I would suggest upgrading to a Bolero DI 4x4 but not for someone who wants a Thar !!

LHD was displayed at the Auto Expo and the man Anand Mahindra who happens to be a very very senior person at Mahindra has confirmed they are working on an RHD model for India.
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Old 20th January 2010, 12:37   #27
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For pure off road ability and nothing else- Gypsy. Primary reason?- it is lighter by 700kgs!!!

For everything else and the best off roading that you can do- Thar!!

p.s- these comments are reserved till i drive thar off road:-)
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Old 20th January 2010, 12:39   #28
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Default CRDi Vs DI - am I out of my head

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
@JK Das:

Generaly for someone one who plans to buy a Tractor, I would suggest upgrading to a Bolero DI 4x4 but not for someone who wants a Thar !!
4x4addict:
how do you pull out such humor, very true DI engines are the past now, so do not even think about them,
yes, they do have their own advantages, but that is not the point here.
jkdas: easy my friend, nothing personal here. but you can never compare a CRDi with a DI.
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Old 20th January 2010, 12:44   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamtheLeo View Post
If you are comfortable with Diesel torque go for thar, if you like acceleration gyosy is what u should get.
I think Thar may be able to accelerate faster then Gypsy. It is a CRDe after all.

You can buy Gypsy in cities for only 2 more months. After that BS4 will come into effect.

Last edited by Samurai : 20th January 2010 at 12:45.
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Old 20th January 2010, 14:30   #30
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any idea what is the power to weight ratio of these two vehicles?
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