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Old 19th January 2010, 12:10   #1
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Default Gyspy Engine Overhaul / Rebuild

Guys ,

As has been the problem of this Gyspy Bug ... I am yet again forced to lay my hands on to a piece that fills me with thrill to restore the so far one of the best Indian Offroader . I have never been through the process of a complete restoration , though I have owned a Willys ( LHD ) and a Gypsy (91' MG410) . Have been reading through quite a few of the restoration projects by Abheek( abheekg) , Kaushik (KSM Vtec ) and others .

Please help me with the rebuild / restoration for a Gypsy that has been lying around in the bushes for quite some time . Well let me tell you the condition of the vehicle . Its a 96 model Ex Army (decommisoned) vehicle (MG 410 ). The asthetics are in pathetic state .I have inspected the vehicle , the body line / chasis are not in very bad state , though some rust is visble . The gears/ 4*4 seems to be intact and in working condition , judging by just shifting the gears in steady state .. easily doable .

I plan to buy this one for restoration .

The list of jobs to be done is as follows : (Phase 1)

1) Strip off the components down to chasis and Complete Engine Overhaul
2) Complete Denting , Painting and Tinkering work
3) Shoes Upgrade (BF Goodrich / Yoko )
4) Fabrictaion of a hard top for the front two seats


Few question to be answered are as follows :

1) What should be the price that I should offer the seller . ( At max cost ), taking into consideration the state of the vehicle .

2) How much would be the approximate labour only cost for the engine rebuild / engine overhaul . Need to know a approx figure before moving in to a mechanic .

3) What is the diffrence between a complete engine rebuild and a engine overhaul .

4) Does it makes sense to do a complete engine rebuild or just overhauling would suffice . Dont want to get stuck with the problems of dripping oil seals / compression loss later .

5) How much would it cost to get the complete vehicle dented painted .

6) Most of all . After a complete engine Rebuild / Overhaul can it really be termed as good as a new vehicle (just the mechanical aspect ) .Realibility factor

7) Inportant Engine parts avaialbaility on the shelf for a 1000 CC Gypsy engine .

Gurus please help with these questions and many more that are in the queue .


PS : Have already read through the subjective topic of whether or not to restore the Ex Army vehicle . Well I have zeroed down on it with a positive note after reading the pros and cons of it .

Mods : Apologies if I have placed this thread in a wrong place . Please do the needful .

Help


Regards,
Pankaj
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Old 19th January 2010, 16:02   #2
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Congrats!!
Welcome to the gypsy world!!
Do post some pics of the Gypsy. It would make it easier to give you an estimated price.
Cheers
GB
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Old 19th January 2010, 16:14   #3
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Originally Posted by Gypsy-Boy View Post
Congrats!!
Welcome to the gypsy world!!
Do post some pics of the Gypsy. It would make it easier to give you an estimated price.
Cheers
GB
Boy , the Gypsy world remains old for me , nothing new , just want to live the fun of a restoration once in for all . Shall try posting the pictures , though I have mentioned the condition and listed the jobs planned . Need inputs around there .
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Old 19th January 2010, 16:28   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jealousdiamond View Post

The list of jobs to be done is as follows : (Phase 1)

1) Strip off the components down to chasis and Complete Engine Overhaul (?? Is it required??)
2) Complete Denting , Painting and Tinkering work
3) Shoes Upgrade (BF Goodrich / Yoko )
4) Fabrictaion of a hard top for the front two seats


Few question to be answered are as follows :

1) What should be the price that I should offer the seller . ( At max cost ), taking into consideration the state of the vehicle . - 80K or lower

2) How much would be the approximate labour only cost for the engine rebuild / engine overhaul . Need to know a approx figure before moving in to a mechanic . - Not sure, i dint have to do it. But rather upgrade the engine.

3) What is the diffrence between a complete engine rebuild and a engine overhaul .

4) Does it makes sense to do a complete engine rebuild or just overhauling would suffice . Dont want to get stuck with the problems of dripping oil seals / compression loss later . Very subjective issue

5) How much would it cost to get the complete vehicle dented painted .
Again depending on the amount and quality of work required - 10-25K

6) Most of all . After a complete engine Rebuild / Overhaul can it really be termed as good as a new vehicle (just the mechanical aspect ) .Realibility factor - There are other aspects that need to be worked upon, but yes you would endup covering the most critical one.

7) Inportant Engine parts avaialbaility on the shelf for a 1000 CC Gypsy engine . - Not sure abt pune, i guess yes in mumbai.

Gurus please help with these questions and many more that are in the queue .


Regards,
Pankaj
Hope you have the cost of registration in mind.
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Old 20th January 2010, 13:16   #5
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I would like to ask is there any specific reason that you plan to buy a MG410 and not a MG413??
Considering that the old engine being a little underpowered, 4 speed gearbox, older technology and not to mention that kings are easily & widely available!!!
I am assuming here that you would be keeping the vehicle for atleast 4-5 years on a minimum!!!
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Old 20th January 2010, 13:51   #6
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Originally Posted by harjeev View Post
I would like to ask is there any specific reason that you plan to buy a MG410 and not a MG413??
Considering that the old engine being a little underpowered, 4 speed gearbox, older technology and not to mention that kings are easily & widely available!!!
I am assuming here that you would be keeping the vehicle for atleast 4-5 years on a minimum!!!

Harjeev , The major factor remains the cost . I am getting access to this for as low as 60 K , whereas a MG413 / MG413W ( post 99 ) is costing a whooping 1 lac plus from miltary auctions .

Well as mentioned by you in your restoration thread , I would never be able to trust the Mayapuri folks , not in this life .

So the only solution reamins is buying one from the auctions here itself / buy the 96 model 410 .

Please suggest .
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Old 20th January 2010, 15:26   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jealousdiamond View Post
Harjeev , The major factor remains the cost . I am getting access to this for as low as 60 K , whereas a MG413 / MG413W ( post 99 ) is costing a whooping 1 lac plus from miltary auctions .

Well as mentioned by you in your restoration thread , I would never be able to trust the Mayapuri folks , not in this life .

So the only solution reamins is buying one from the auctions here itself / buy the 96 model 410 .

Please suggest .
I would still put my money on the King than to go in for a dated model. if you search the old threads, I too initially owned a 98 model MG410 and was getting it quite cheap. So naturally I asked around from guys who understand Gypsys, they strictly advised me against going in for it. Their contention was that the 410's are very different from the 413 and its not easy to convert a 410 to a 413 or a 416!!!
Mayapuri is an issue for someone who does not know what he's doing, like I was about a year back,
you see another BHPIAN recently bought an auctioned MPFI for 1.80lacs with almost 1lac kms on the odo and he went ahead with his trusted mechanic. But the problem is that a mechanic will only tell you as far as whether all the parts are complete or not. How will the mechanic be of any help if he's not able to start the engine. and all the vehicles in Mayapuri are not in a start condition.
If I were in your place I would go with a 1.3 carb and slowly and gradually do her up than to stick with a dated and older technology vehicle.
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Old 20th January 2010, 15:30   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harjeev View Post
If I were in your place I would go with a 1.3 carb and slowly and gradually do her up than to stick with a dated and older technology vehicle.
You made me rethink shall think over it , makes sense
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Old 21st January 2010, 17:57   #9
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Hi Pankaj 413 is always better and advisable. 410 doesnt have much options.
If you can get a buyer for your 410 sell NOW and invest in 413 which i can help you with.
Like i said before you have to strip these jeeps completly to actually know what all is missing.
The cost depends on quality job you looking for.
Cheers.
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Old 1st February 2010, 02:50   #10
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Pankaj, with my recent experience of an ex-Army MG413 rebuild; here's what you could expect (this is just my anticpation and more experienced people may correct if reqd.)

all approx. figs:
1. Engine overhauling - 15-20k
2. Mechanicals - 10-15k
3. Electricals - 10k
4. Denting and Paintng (decent) - 20k
5. Labour - 15k
6. Seats/ mats/ soft covers etc - 10k (hard top for the front will be about 7-10k itself)
7. Tyres and rims - 30k
8. Reg and Ins - 25k
8, Misc - 10k (i guarantee you will end up spending on something or the other over the next couple of months)

Essentially, you will end up spending a lac over and above the vehicle cost to get your 410 in shape whic equals to about 1.8L. Instead, like others have advised, pick up a 413. In Delhi, you will get a decent '99 ex Army piece with good chassis and bodyline for a lac. You would be able to restore it in around the same price, but will have a more reliable and powerful engine and a wide track stable 4x4.

I got into details because during my gypsy hunt, i was struggling to get these details. Hope this was helpful

Abhey
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Old 1st February 2010, 11:42   #11
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Thanks Abhey ! That indeed was helpful .
Just a clarification needed , you mentioned something like mechanicals I m guessing you meant The diffrentials / Trany and all that stuff / Or something else
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Old 1st February 2010, 14:04   #12
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Correct wow i am impressed with Abhey.. you got everything on your finger tips now.
Mind i ll suggest you stick to 410 plan and restore rather converting into 413 . NOT ADVISABLE....
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Old 2nd February 2010, 04:11   #13
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Correct wow i am impressed with Abhey.. you got everything on your finger tips now.
LOL. I guess its all the gypsy gyaan i got during the rebuild
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Old 2nd February 2010, 12:23   #14
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Just my view on the exp -

1. Engine overhauling - 15-20k - Not sure
2. Mechanicals - 10-15k - Perfect
3. Electricals - 10k - Less than 10K
4. Denting and Paintng (decent) - 20k - Perfect for a good Job
5. Labour - 15k - Not sure for what??
6. Seats/ mats/ soft covers etc - 10k (hard top for the front will be about 7-10k itself) - Perfect
7. Tyres and rims - 30k - Under 25K
8. Reg and Ins - 25k - Perfect
8, Misc - 10k (i guarantee you will end up spending on something or the other over the next couple of months) - Possible
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