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Old 18th March 2010, 09:35   #151
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does the Gypsy start behaving weird after the AC fitment? What i mean is, if you drive an Alto/800 with AC, it coughs and jolts like crazy when the AC is on. Does Gypsy also behave similar when the AC is on?
Deepak, I have driven two Gypsies with different setups. One was KSM's carb 413W with the Superking and Sanden 507 and the other was Imran's MPFI 413W with Superking and Subros 80cc. Both handled the AC well and although the carb version did get a bit sluggish with the AC switched on, it wasn't enough to ruin the motoring experience. Imran's Gypsy felt near identical with the AC on/off.

In short - no it doesn't seem to affect the drive that much. I guess the bigger engine and higher torque at low RPM alleviates this to an extent.
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Old 18th March 2010, 10:03   #152
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The Subros market rate is higher than the Sanden 507 and the report is that the 507 (112cc?) loads up the engine a tad more than the 80cc Subros. In any case Sripadh will also check out the variable compressor. Taking the final call tomorrow. Surprisingly, the variable compressor (7 piston) is easier on the engine than the fixed compressors.
The Subros market rate is higher because new ones are available where as from what i know only used/refurbished sandens's are available since they are out of production now. Yes, the Sanden 507 is 112-120cc and the 508 is 140cc and hence it loads the engine more than the Subro but offers better cooling.

At the end of the day one puts the AC for good cooling and that is what is important. Go for the Subros only if you are happy with the peak cooling level in Imran's setup. Travel fatigue on long trips is much more without a good AC.

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Deepak, I have driven two Gypsies with different setups. One was KSM's carb 413W with the Superking and Sanden 507 and the other was Imran's MPFI 413W with Superking and Subros 80cc. Both handled the AC well and although the carb version did get a bit sluggish with the AC switched on, it wasn't enough to ruin the motoring experience. Imran's Gypsy felt near identical with the AC on/off.
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Old 18th March 2010, 12:00   #153
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At the end of the day one puts the AC for good cooling and that is what is important. Go for the Subros only if you are happy with the peak cooling level in Imran's setup. Travel fatigue on long trips is much more without a good AC.
Kaushik...yet another change.

I've got the Subros and it's OEM bracket with me but I've decided to install a Sanden 6V10. This is a 100cc variable compressor (wobble plate type). This is more of an academic exercise to see what cooling efficiencies and engine loads we will experience with this compressor. If it works out then I will either keep the 6V10 with a insulated barrier behind driver cabin, or switch to the 7 piston series.

http://sandenvikas.com/compressors.htm#var

The installation is in progress now. I'll post pictures later in the evening.

Additionally I am going head-on with the passive heat-rejection methods like vKool film all around including windshield. Going for a light green tint which I think will look good with the white body shell. Heatlon is going on the entire floor, fire-wall, doors and the sides of the rear-cabin.

The hard-top rear cabin is a double layer with glass-wool in between in most places. Heatlon is going only where there is no glass-wool and it will be covered by grey upholstery.

The transmission tunnel will be covered with heatlon on the cabin-side and on the under-side I am installing reflective coated foam insulation as well. This reflective foam is also going under the hood and on the engine side of the firewall.

The roof in the rear cabin does not require heatlon.

The front cabin roof is getting heatlon under the "forehead" of the car. In addition to this, I am installing a false-roof to reduce the effective cabin volume. Using plywood coated with heatlon and grey upholstery for this.

Finally I am getting an insulated, removable partition made between front and rear cabin as I spend most of my time driving by myself. This will be done after the rear seats are selected. I've contacted Alan (Extremepower) for help with this. Meeting him tomorrow/saturday.

I should have the vehicle back by Mon.

Last edited by gsferrari : 18th March 2010 at 12:02.
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Old 18th March 2010, 12:12   #154
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Heatlon is going on the entire floor, fire-wall, doors and the sides of the rear-cabin.
Where you getting the heatlon work done? What thickness?
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Old 18th March 2010, 12:27   #155
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Where you getting the heatlon work done? What thickness?
You can get it done at any good seat cover wala...there is one here in bandra.

The heatlon thickness depends on what you want to put. I had the 10mm all over. Works really well on the firewall which is the most imp spot you should have it on.
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Old 18th March 2010, 12:36   #156
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Where you getting the heatlon work done? What thickness?
Not sure what thickness they have planned. Will check. I am getting it done by Mr. Sripadh at Mahim. He is associated with Sai Service and hence this is coming under dealer fitting category but it is heavily customized for my requirements.

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The heatlon thickness depends on what you want to put. I had the 10mm all over. Works really well on the firewall which is the most imp spot you should have it on.
Yes the firewall and the transmission tunnel are the biggest culprits in the Gypsy. Hence the heatlon on the interior surface and the reflective "Phoenix" insulation on the under-side and engine-side of the firewall.
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Old 18th March 2010, 12:44   #157
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Dear Saintsinner,
Thanks a lot for this information.
What is this concorde split unit? Does this help you have an AC vent at the back as well?
This fan that you've mentioned, is this readily available at spare part dealers?
Last question, does the Gypsy start behaving weird after the AC fitment? What i mean is, if you drive an Alto/800 with AC, it coughs and jolts like crazy when the AC is on. Does Gypsy also behave similar when the AC is on?
Thanks a lot.
Cheers,
Deepak
Hi Deepak, the concorde split unit is similar to the 2nd row roof mounted AC in a safari. Considering the delhi heat and a metal roof for the driver cabin and insulated canvas for the rear.. the split was required at the back.

The fan is readily available at a spare part dealer, just get the BEHR one.

It would be nice if gypsy owners with AC could mention what fan is on their condenser.

the gypsy does not cough & jolt. the load is minimal, but if you are getting a new install keep an eye on temp needle, gypsies are hot headed!

An ECU remap is not needed as the engine handles the compressor well at regular RPM's.
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Old 18th March 2010, 20:23   #158
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It would be nice if gypsy owners with AC could mention what fan is on their condenser
I will post full details tomorrow/saturday along with pictures of the installation.
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Old 20th March 2010, 06:17   #159
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Quick Update:

Day #2 of AC fitting and heading into Day #3. We are waiting for the bracket for the compressor from the fabricators. This is holding up progress. In the meanwhile, the insulation work has been done. The condensor is installed ahead of the radiator and a TDK Denso fan (used in mercs) has been installed in front sucking air into the condensor, through the radiator and then pulled out by the OEM viscous clutch fan. The Sanden 6V10 fits neatly but it comes with a 6-track pulley. We made a 4-track pulley with the correct gear ratios (again something many ac fitments don't take into account) to ensure optimum rpms for the compressor with minimum load on the engine. The dryer unit and stuff will go into place today.


In the meanwhile, I had the sun-film work executed while the vehicle waited for the compressor bracket. Selected Garware ice-cool RTO approved all around the vehicle. This film has a light green tint which goes very well with the white exteriors and tan interiors. 99% UV rejection and more than 60% heat rejection. The windshield film has additional anti-glare properties. vKool was waaay above my budget and in the same cost of vKool I managed to get the Garware film AND new seats.

Visited CST Kurla this evening and found the exact seats I was looking for. Skoda Laura mechanically operated leather seats. These were in find condition and came with head-rest, arm-rest and all. I also found a rear bench-seat off a Toyota something. This was double-folding which is what I was looking for to maximize rear space. The color doesn't match the front seats but I will get it upholstered later and add more cushioning as well. The rear seats fit inside the tire-wells so there will be room for arm-rests and cup-holders on each side. Did a spot-deal for the laura seats + toyota rear seat in exchange for my stock seats.

I also found the head-unit I was looking for. Some chinese make with memory card (SD, mSD and USB) with FM. No CD nothing. Cheap as chips and will be coupled with cheap-er speakers. I don't want to "groove" in this car...just need to be able to hear some music. Didn't buy the Gypsy to win any SPL awards.

Total expenditure so far:

1. Yokohama Geolandar 215-75/R15 5pcs exchange = Rs.15000
2. Garware Ice-Cool RTO approved Sun Film = Rs.8000
3. Laura seats and toyota rear bench seat = Rs.9000
4. Chinese head-unit and speakers = Rs.2000
5. AC installation = Rs.45000

Total = Rs.79000


Upcoming expenses:
1. 2 x Bolero ORVMs = Rs.1000 approx
2. 1 x Vitara or other compatible steering = Rs.1000 approx
3. Upholstery and fitting of seats = Rs.1000 approx
4. Interior work (pouches, upholstery, cubby holes etc.) = Rs.2000 approx
5. CFLs = Rs.12000

My budget was 1L to make the Gypsy a daily-use car and I am getting there. I think I will end up with something pretty close to what I had in mind.
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Old 20th March 2010, 06:37   #160
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Laura seats with arm rests is a very good investment, i mean 9K is a very decent price.However, I heard that laura seats are electrically operated?
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Old 20th March 2010, 07:16   #161
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Laura seats with arm rests is a very good investment, i mean 9K is a very decent price.However, I heard that laura seats are electrically operated?
Are all the variants equipped with electrically operated seats? I saw another Gypsy with laura seats and it too had manual operation. These seats come with Lumbar support adjustment and the best thigh support I could find between Laura, Innova and Safari seat options.

The Tan leather is just a bonus here because it is THE look I was going for with the Gypsy. White exteriors, tan interiors and a light green tinted film.
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Old 20th March 2010, 10:27   #162
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GS, you got a good deal.

Was it the Landcruiser/Prado rear bench (3/4th of it) with the center armrest (now offcentered)? I had seen that one at CST Road. He was asking 1000 pre-bargain.


The new lauras come with electric seats and i think the higher variant of the old ones came with it (not to sure about the latter though).
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Old 20th March 2010, 17:17   #163
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So I went to pick up the seats today along with Raj (Desmosedici) and I realized that getting into the back seats would be tough with the laura seats up front because they don't fold forward sufficiently. Therefore, it is imperative I retain the bench seats in the back because it is impossible to access a fwd facing seat from the back door.

Therefore we had a heated re-negotiation with the seat-wallah and agreed on Rs.6000 for the front seats with exchange. Same price for Raj as well. The seller was initially refusing 7000 vehemently...I think we made a fool of him at the end (I just hope these seats don't end up being filled with garbage )

So I now have two laura leather manual seats up front and the standard bench seats in the back. Getting everything cleaned, polished and installed. The interiors will become Tan color and I will re-upholster the rear bench seats in tan leather as well.

Rs.6000 for two Laura seats sounds like a decent deal to me. They are significantly more comfortable and supportive than the stock seats...no contest!
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Old 21st March 2010, 01:55   #164
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gsferrari,

Sir.. sounds like one sweet deal to me. will they fix on the stock mounts or you need to fabricate new ones?
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Old 21st March 2010, 06:50   #165
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gsferrari,

Sir.. sounds like one sweet deal to me. will they fix on the stock mounts or you need to fabricate new ones?
Hey GSferrari
Same ques as saintsinner,
Will you have to fabricate the seat mounts too or do they fit easily.

Where are you fitting the blower and condenser of the aircon??? I was thinking of cutting the dashboard and fitting the Superking blower and cooling coil inside the dashboard itself.
Also are you retaining the stock blower or changing to a bigger one and where would you be installing it???
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