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Old 6th April 2011, 17:05   #616
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Default Re: Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.

THE MUA5 is a great gearbox but the rear output is centered, which will give you drive angle issues!
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Old 6th April 2011, 20:17   #617
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Default Re: Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.

Dear Jaggu - leave the big changes on DWARF alone, will you? Its a gem of a vehicle, enjoy it. If you fit a long transmission, you will not have place to put the rear propeller shaft because the axle will start before the transmission ends. Why do you think I am keeping quiet on the CL340 reincarnation? If I meet BS4, if I meet CMVR, I'm on, isn't it? Arre Bhai, Samjha Karo Naa Yaar! .

By the way, I used to idle Premier Padmini engines to as low as 375 rpm. Its a delight to first do and then observe. It takes a lot of effort. The "half key" start must happen at least 10 times in quick succession without any accelerator pedal input whatsoever. Please tell your technician to connect an extra earth wire from your distributor body to the battery negative terminal. He may resist, insist on doing it, do it and then see what happens. You will be pleasently surprised. . In 1977, my teacher Mr.Framroze Nariman had a PTUT (Portable Tune Up Tester) in his Premier Safari Service Van MMB1975 and we have actually seen the difference on the oscilloscope.

Dear Rudra - in the ISZ, 375 rpm seems to be a tall order due to the squarish bore / stroke ratio. 720 +/- 20 rpm is correct.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 6th April 2011, 20:54   #618
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Default Re: Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.

Jaggu,

Then the Isuzu and the BA-10, both are longer gear boxes, which means the transmission cross member needs to be moved back thus, sacrificing the legendary breakover angle of the 3B.
Not worth it, plus all Sir Behram has stated, one thing... you won't have any rear propeller shaft problems, as there will hardly be any shaft left after the GB swap.

Regards,
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Old 6th April 2011, 22:07   #619
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Default Re: Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kandisa View Post
This is the most common Isuzu GB with TC available here in the scrap markets i guess? Never knew that the gear ratios are identical to the KMT90. Thanks for the information.
+1 my madness is atleast becoming useful somewhere else ie improving our knowledge

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Jaggu,

It is easier to improve cruising by putting taller tyres.

Also for brake system you can upgrade to the MM540 type TMC setup, and even change the drum brakes to the MM540 Type.
Very honestly Arka if not for disc's the current set up stays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
What are the cruising speeds you expect to maintain?
Would be happy if i can do 90-100 comfortably @ 2-2.4k RPM, am i being too optimistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
What are distances do you intend to travel on a regular basis?
More than regularly, i want to drive 300-500 kms in a day without the constant vrooooom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
somethings you can modernize are
i) Better Ignition System (Cables/Coil/Spark Plug)
ii) Air-Intake & Exhaust System
iii) Carburetor
All i plan to do is if possible get a electronic unit which will sit inside the distributor to replace the points + maybe a snorkle. Otherwise am perfectly fine with power and refinement of Gopal tune. Rudra also has experienced it and can comment the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
But then considering the cost of the above, you can easily swap it to a XD3P+4speed.
Would rather sell the CJ3B!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
PS - Even my CJ3B is 1985 vintage and ran a B275 for a few weeks.
How was the experience?? why you removed it??

And after i read Frankie's comments on final ratio, i think my idea is not in the right direction! Fool i was.

Arka what about diff ratio, is it worth playing around??? and keep the low end intact for LOW ratio?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Most of the time I see you piloting Khan, Viji or some others Jeep / Gypsy , then why this need?
You hit the nail! Am withdrawing my chauffeur service with immediate effect and want to drive DwArF!! and hence the madness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by star_aqua View Post
LOL, nice observation spikey.
@jaggu: drive some diesel jeep for few days and hopefully you will appreciate Dwarf after that.
Arre baba i have driven enough and that is why i spent the money so far on DwArF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
Jaggu, 4 speed kmt 90 has the same final drive ratio of the 3 speed, so you wont be gaining any cruising speed, i.e the 4th gear of the 4 speed and the 3rd gear of the 3 speed are 1:1 ratio.
Stupid of me to assume final ratio is taller!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
I am running the 540 drums and tandem master cylinder(TMC), they are superb on road , inclines and declines you have to stand on the brakes + they are useless in rains , i mean literally useless.
Same reason, if i would, then its gonna be disc!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
I dont think you can use a brake booster with the stock alternator.
Arre baba, manifold!! Its a petrol engine and tapping is no big deal for vacuum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
To maintain good cruising speed you need wider 51" axles
Already factored in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyobeb View Post
THE MUA5 is a great gearbox but the rear output is centered, which will give you drive angle issues!
Dang not that kind of complictaion! Thanks mate for the picture, really opened my eyes. Rather popped my eyes out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Jaggu - leave the big changes on DWARF alone, will you? Its a gem of a vehicle, enjoy it. If you fit a long transmission, you will not have place to put the rear propeller shaft because the axle will start before the transmission ends. Why do you think I am keeping quiet on the CL340 reincarnation? If I meet BS4, if I meet CMVR, I'm on, isn't it? Arre Bhai, Samjha Karo Naa Yaar! .
Samaj gaya saabji! aka Understood! As i said earlier this is just some brain storming. Common this should atleast help the future generations of jeepers!


Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
The "half key" start must happen at least 10 times in quick succession without any accelerator pedal input whatsoever.
Tried upto 5 tries last sunday, shall take up the challenge of 10 tries next!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Please tell your technician to connect an extra earth wire from your distributor body to the battery negative terminal. He may resist, insist on doing it, do it and then see what happens. You will be pleasently surprised.
Dear Dhabhar this i can do myself, have that much technical competencies within me Shall update once i do it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
in the ISZ, 375 rpm seems to be a tall order due to the squarish bore / stroke ratio. 720 +/- 20 rpm is correct.
Same thing Gopal mentioned, thanks for clarifying or it would have given Rudra sleepless nights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Jaggu,

Then the Isuzu and the BA-10, both are longer gear boxes, which means the transmission cross member needs to be moved back thus, sacrificing the legendary breakover angle of the 3B.
Not worth it, plus all Sir Behram has stated, one thing... you won't have any rear propeller shaft problems, as there will hardly be any shaft left after the GB swap.

Regards,
Another very important info for me and Thank you!




Ok now tell me which are the other options for taller final ratio = better cruising?

Change diff ratio?

Can the top gear alone be changed in this box?

Add a OE willy overdrive box? Many parts have to be changed within the existing box and sourcing the bits from US would be a pain, especially it would be all second hand stuff.
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Old 7th April 2011, 01:06   #620
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Default Re: Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.

Dear Jaggu - I had a CL340 in 1995. It had 4.27:1 axle ratio. It ran like a dream on tarmac. I never took it off road. I have absolutely no intention of ever taking any of my personal vehicles off road. For that, there is ----. Well, to each, his own.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 7th April 2011, 10:27   #621
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Default Re: Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
...Kandisa , yes thats the Gb available in scrap. I ll PM you the Tcase details....
Thanks a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyobeb View Post
THE MUA5 is a great gearbox but the rear output is centered, which will give you drive angle issues!
Sorry, but can you elaborate a bit more. Is it issues regarding the alignment of propeller shaft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
+1 my madness is atleast becoming useful somewhere else ie improving our knowledge ....
Indeed, good to see some info on the ISUZU.
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Old 7th April 2011, 10:56   #622
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Default Re: Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
+1 my madness is atleast becoming useful somewhere else ie improving our knowledge

Very honestly Arka if not for disc's the current set up stays.

Would be happy if i can do 90-100 comfortably @ 2-2.4k RPM, am i being too optimistic.

More than regularly, i want to drive 300-500 kms in a day without the constant vrooooom.
Hi Jaggu,

You are on the way to become a superstar!!!!!!

Lets find out the theoretical speed for F4-134 @ 2400RPM with 5.38:1 at 3rd Gear/Top Gear and 6.00X16

(Engine RPM)/(Total Gearing) X (Circumference of Tyre) X 60minutes =

(2400/5.38) X (2 x 3.14 x 14") X 60mins =

(446) X (2.23m) X 60 = 59687.7metres per hour or 59.6Kmph

the same with 4.88:1 & 6.00X16

(2400/4.88) X (2.23m) X 60 =

(491) X (2.23m) X 60 = 65695.8 metres per hour or 65Kmph

lets try 4.27:1 and 7.50X16 (31")

(2400/4.27) X (2.47m) X 60 =

(562) X (2.47m) X 60 = 83297.4 metres per hour or 83Kmph.

These are theoretical calculations, the effect of wind/air resistance, weight and tyres will further reduce the speed.

There are many things which make a CJ3B, especially a M&M CJ3B what it is, one of them is 5.38:1 Final Drive.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 7th April 2011, 21:31   #623
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Default Re: Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.

Arka you did not answer how your jeep felt with a 4 speed and thank you i wanted this calculation for getting some idea where am headed.

So right now its blocks all the way. Now what is your opinion about woriginal willy's OD? Also any info if top gear can be played around with?
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Old 7th April 2011, 22:47   #624
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Default Re: Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.

I find the CJ3B most comfortable at 75-80 kmph max on highways. And its not that bad a speed while travelling on the usual Indian roads.
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Old 7th April 2011, 23:08   #625
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Default Re: Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.

Jaggu, look here at Dwarf's speed. Do you still want OD?

Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.-photo0130.jpg
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Old 8th April 2011, 06:51   #626
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Default Re: Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Jaggu - I had a CL340 in 1995. It had 4.27:1 axle ratio. It ran like a dream on tarmac. I never took it off road. I have absolutely no intention of ever taking any of my personal vehicles off road. For that, there is ----. Well, to each, his own.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir, thats an amazing statement - NOW I ENVY YOU

Quote:
Originally Posted by star_aqua View Post
Jaggu, look here at Dwarf's speed. Do you still want OD?

Attachment 528427

@Star: I dont believe that is DWARfs pic. DWARF cant do more than 60kph!!

Cheers
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Old 8th April 2011, 10:08   #627
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Default Re: Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Arka you did not answer how your jeep felt with a 4 speed and thank you i wanted this calculation for getting some idea where am headed.

So right now its blocks all the way. Now what is your opinion about woriginal willy's OD? Also any info if top gear can be played around with?
Hi Jaggu,

I used the CJ3B, with B275 and T-90+5.38:1 + 7.00X16 for TPC2006.

It was a real pain to drive on and off-road, it was extremely difficult to build up momentum, but would crawl all over the sand even on 3rd Lo.

I have driven the MM440 with F4-134, and the KMT-90 definitely improves the slow speed driving.

The OD costs about 70K, approx, how much petrol can you buy for 70K; 1000litres approx, how much will you drive for 1000Litres? 10X1000Litres= 10000Kms.

So in how many months do you intend to cover 10000kms?

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by ex670c : 8th April 2011 at 10:17.
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Old 8th April 2011, 11:32   #628
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Default Re: Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
@Star: I dont believe that is DWARfs pic. DWARF cant do more than 60kph!!
Yes it can, and it could go even higher if we had room ahead on the road. There is an error of 10 kmph and GPS figure was approx 90-91 KMPH IIRC. This was before the engine tune up and it was running with 3.5 cylinders and Maxxis Trepadors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Jaggu,

I used the CJ3B, with B275 and T-90+5.38:1 + 7.00X16 for TPC2006.

It was a real pain to drive on and off-road, it was extremely difficult to build up momentum, but would crawl all over the sand even on 3rd Lo.
Ok thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
The OD costs about 70K, approx, how much petrol can you buy for 70K; 1000litres approx, how much will you drive for 1000Litres? 10X1000Litres= 10000Kms.

So in how many months do you intend to cover 10000kms?
Arka you wont believe it, the odo in the pic showed 996 km, this was in Oct10. Vehicle was in hibernation between Dec10 and Mar11. Now the odo shows 1700 kms Ok this being 3rd vehicle in my garage.

So the question is not how many kms it will run? how many kms can i run more if i had better highway flexibility. If the OD can give me 100 kph cruising, i really dont mind 70k. Dang my home ministry is gonna really kick me!
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Old 8th April 2011, 11:44   #629
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Default Re: Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.

@Jaggu: YOU ARE THE MAN..

BTW, have you considered the health hazards of driving a CJ3B continuously? First get the home ministry permission before we start a new thread on that!!

Also, IIRC, the CJ3Bs were designed for a max of 50 MPH thats 80 Kmph. Any higher is asking for "trouble" that too with NDMS, antiquated brakes et all.
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Old 8th April 2011, 12:20   #630
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Arre babaa why didi start with disc brakes and tyre upgrade in the first place. Even in stock form NDMS is a hazard, am very very careful on Tarmac with those tyres.
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