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Old 22nd March 2010, 11:54   #1
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Default Bolero CRDe Storm - Why the Thar ???

Note from Mod : The Thar's full test & review has been uploaded at this link (Mahindra Thar : Test Drive & Review).

Was pondering over this issue this weekend and couldnt convince myself.

The latest offering from the Mahindra Stables is the Bolero CRDe Storm. The specs are

Mahindra Bolero

The Thar specs are on the Thar page elsewhere on this forum .

While the engine is the same and so is the platform why the Thar ? Cause its got

1) An open-top ? (THE ONLY DIFFERENTIATING FACTOR)
2) A snorkel
3) 4 WD
4) Sparco seats
5) Different Gear Ratios ?
6) Winch

Why dont they just do the following on the Bolero Storm
1) Offer 4wd
2) Snorkel (Can be done aftermarket)
3) Winch (Can be done aftermarket)

Or is this the precise reason why the Bolero CRDe is NOT BEING OFFERED in a 4WD variant.

If I were to buy a vehicle which I can do expeditions (read - Bangalore - Leh / Bhutan kind of trips) in with my family, I would expect a full bodied vehicle with all the creature comforts and which has 4wd and a winch.

Experts thoughts please.

Last edited by GTO : 5th January 2011 at 18:39. Reason: Adding link to the Thar Review Thread
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Old 22nd March 2010, 12:02   #2
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This is simply to target a wider customer base. I mean why didnt you ask, "IF Scorpio CRDe is there, then why Bolero Storm?".. anwer will be the same.

wrt the 4wd, neither is available to Indian Market. Thar is not yet launched, no news yet regarding 4WD Storm. May be Mahindra will launch 2WD Thar as well... may be by end of 2010 or in 2011 a 4WD Storm as well?

All is simply unpredictable.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 12:06   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAINMAKER View Post
Was pondering over this issue this weekend and couldnt convince myself.

The latest offering from the Mahindra Stables is the Bolero CRDe Storm. The specs are

Mahindra Bolero

The Thar specs are on the Thar page elsewhere on this forum .

While the engine is the same and so is the platform why the Thar ?

Experts thoughts please.
1. You can take the Thar to Empire and people will stare at you in awe.
- You are instantly pronounced cool and your age will reduce by 10 years.

2. You can take the Bolero Storm and people will stare at you in fear.
- You will be mistaken for a cop or a gangster.

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Old 22nd March 2010, 12:08   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAINMAKER View Post
Was pondering over this issue this weekend and couldnt convince myself.

The latest offering from the Mahindra Stables is the Bolero CRDe Storm. The specs are

Mahindra Bolero

The Thar specs are on the Thar page elsewhere on this forum .

While the engine is the same and so is the platform why the Thar ? Cause its got

1) An open-top ? (THE ONLY DIFFERENTIATING FACTOR)
2) A snorkel
3) 4 WD
4) Sparco seats
5) Different Gear Ratios ?
6) Winch

Why dont they just do the following on the Bolero Storm
1) Offer 4wd
2) Snorkel (Can be done aftermarket)
3) Winch (Can be done aftermarket)

Or is this the precise reason why the Bolero CRDe is NOT BEING OFFERED in a 4WD variant.

If I were to buy a vehicle which I can do expeditions (read - Bangalore - Leh / Bhutan kind of trips) in with my family, I would expect a full bodied vehicle with all the creature comforts and which has 4wd and a winch.

Experts thoughts please.
An interesting thought! But it primarily depends upon the cost factor. Thar's price is unknown. If it by chance comes closer to Strom's then as you said it doesn't make any sense to go for THAR if you don't need 4wd or if you don't value the looks of a CJ7 kind of vehicle.

Storm 4wd if made will be expensive to THAR by at least about 1.5 or 2 lakhs because of features and complete hardtop body.

If hypothetical Storm 4wd retails it would be Rs 8.8 to 9.0 lakhs on road considering 2wd retails at about 7.8 on road. Would you pay so high for a Bolero with 4wd? It depends as you would have a choice of Scorpio getaway and TATA Xenon at that price and not to forget the good old Gurkha from Force motors.

p.s- Thar production model will not come with Sparco seats
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Old 22nd March 2010, 12:08   #5
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I would personally prefer Bolero Storm anyday than Thar if they offer Bolero Storm in 4WD variant.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 13:36   #6
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While the Bolero is guaranteed to be stolen...I doubt anyone will want to ride around in a vehicle as conspicuous as the Thar. So you just might have your jeep in the morning when you park it somewhere overnight.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 14:32   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAINMAKER View Post
...

1) An open-top ? (THE ONLY DIFFERENTIATING FACTOR)
2) A snorkel
3) 4 WD
4) Sparco seats
5) Different Gear Ratios ?
6) Winch

...
2. Snorkel is not available in Thar; what is available is the provision for fixing one.

4. Not provided; what is see in the photos (taken in India) are the bling ones for Europe.

6. Similar to the response above, not provided.

What you get in THAR is:

1. Provision for fixing roll bars. All the fixing point are available and covered by rubber seals. So, buy a bar, remove seal and fix.

2. Air filter cover has the angled inlet to fix a snorkel. Fixed at the angle where you make a hole on the bonnet. So, buy snorkel, make bonnet hole and fix.

3. There was something about fixing an alternate axel (totally lost there!). But what you end up with will be the stock axel sitting at home, as dead weight!

4. Torque - 27kgNm!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAINMAKER View Post
...If I were to buy a vehicle which I can do expeditions (read - Bangalore - Leh / Bhutan kind of trips) in with my family, I would expect a full bodied vehicle with all the creature comforts and which has 4wd and a winch...
I am sure you will have a lot many people subscribing to that group!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari View Post
While the Bolero is guaranteed to be stolen...
Seriously! I do hope Bolero's come with some better security system. Some not-have have left the "begging" & "borrowing" part and directly into the "stealing" part!
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Old 22nd March 2010, 19:57   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAINMAKER View Post
If I were to buy a vehicle which I can do expeditions (read - Bangalore - Leh / Bhutan kind of trips) in with my family, I would expect a full bodied vehicle with all the creature comforts and which has 4wd and a winch.

Experts thoughts please.
Let me tell you that for Bangalore - Leh / Bhutan kind of trips you don't exactly need a 4X4 unless you intend to climb Gata Loops/Passes through the shortcuts. I have done the Hyd - Leh - Hyd in the Storm 2WD and it was more than enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
1. You can take the Thar to Empire and people will stare at you in awe.
- You are instantly pronounced cool and your age will reduce by 10 years.

2. You can take the Bolero Storm and people will stare at you in fear.
- You will be mistaken for a cop or a gangster.

LMAO.

Ok coming back on the topic raised, both Storm 4WD (as and when it comes out) and Thar 4WD`with their IFS are going to be anything but soft-roaders. And thats why you wouldn't need any winch or snorkel ( for River Fording). As a matter of fact I don't think you'll need the 4WD at all. I was in the same boat as you till sometime back, thinking of selling off the Storm and buying the Thar 4wd (A/C, PS HT Version) but this weekend has taught me one that a vehicle with impeccable off road credentials and on road manners is an oxymoron. So you need to prioritise what you want and then buy a vehicle.

Cheers
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Old 22nd March 2010, 20:08   #9
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I dont think the engines in the Thar and the Storm are the same. The Thar website states its engine is a newer one meeting Euro IV norms and producing 105hp instead of the 97hp in the Storm. Here's the link
:: Welcome to Mahindra Thar ::

Also remember the Thar will be a good bit lighter than the storm. Also its 4WD capabilities will be a good bit better than the Bolero's.

Overall the Thar and the Storm look at two different kind of customer's altogether. The priorities of the Storm and the Thar buyers will be different.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 21:19   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
I dont think the engines in the Thar and the Storm are the same. The Thar website states its engine is a newer one meeting Euro IV norms and producing 105hp instead of the 97hp in the Storm. Here's the link
:: Welcome to Mahindra Thar ::
We have already been through that discussion on this thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...e-27-38-a.html

The engine is the same 2.49 NEF CRDe with a different ECM settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Also remember the Thar will be a good bit lighter than the storm. Also its 4WD capabilities will be a good bit better than the Bolero's.

Overall the Thar and the Storm look at two different kind of customer's altogether. The priorities of the Storm and the Thar buyers will be different.
As a matter of fact the kerb weight are not too different. And as about customer segment Thar being targeted at will ultimately depend on how M&M Prices it.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 22:11   #11
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Thar and the Storm,it seems, are not at all vehicles to be compared with each other. Thar is for the lot who like to have real Jeep looks and no frills( art least as the Mahindra website suggests).Again the Thar is a lifestyle offroading vehicle while storm is a poorman's SUV, ( not in the derogatory sense, please understand)which is capable of confounding many car freaks .
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Old 26th December 2010, 21:41   #12
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Default Thar CRDe 4WD - Why not the Bolero Storm 4WD ???

Jeepers,

After a 7 month haitus ("off-line" on "off-road") I finally got to do some catching up thanks to my Annual holidays.

Yes, I Miss My Hurricane.

Some observations and probably clarifications required (some employees of Mahindra are also on this forum, last I knew Mr. Behram was the only one until I saw the launch video of the Thar and came to know that Vinod is also now part of Mahindra). Hows it going Vinod?

The Thar MDI got Launched - Seems like a 2010 version of the MM540. Why call this the Thar in the first place and create an identity crisis ?

The Thar Crde got launched subsequently with the options of one customising so as to have all the bells and whistle.

I still cant understand why the BOLERO STORM is not available with a 4WD option ? Is it because Mahindra is not able to position the products as the pricing will clash ? I dont think so considering that most of people consider the "Thar CRDe" as a "Lifestyle" statement.

So we have the following

Thar MDI - 2 WD 2523 cc DI Turbo Diesel / 63 HP
Bolero Plus / DI / SLE / SLX - 2 WD 2523 cc DI Turbo Diesel / 63 HP
Bolero SLX - 4 WD (XD3PU / 63 HP)
Bolero Storm - 2 WD (2.49L CRDe Engine / 97 HP)
Thar Crde - 4WD (2.49L CRDe Engine / 97 HP )

Techically there should be only 2 product lines (purely based on the engines)

Bolero Series - 2 WD 2523 cc DI Turbo Diesel / 63 HP. Vehicles are
  • Thar MDI (should be renamed as "Bolero Open-top"),
  • Plus DI / SLE / SLX
Thar Series - 2.49L CRDe Engine / 97 HP. Vehicles are
  • Thar CRDe (Open top "lifestyle") and
  • Bolero Storm should be rebadged (along with techincal improvements from Thar) and called "Thar Unlimited" (taking a cue from Wrangler) .
Dont you guys agree?

One more thing.. Why was the post moved into "Indian Car Scene" while I had originally posted it on 4x4 - Vehicles. If you notice I have also changed the title of this post, as there has been a role reversal of sorts !!!
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Old 26th December 2010, 21:48   #13
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Default Re: Thar CRDe 4WD - Why not the Bolero Storm 4WD ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAINMAKER View Post
Jeepers,

After a 7 month haitus ("off-line" on "off-road") I finally got to do some catching up thanks to my Annual holidays.

Yes, I Miss My Hurricane.

Some observations and probably clarifications required (some employees of Mahindra are also on this forum, last I knew Mr. Behram was the only one until I saw the launch video of the Thar and came to know that Vinod is also now part of Mahindra). Hows it going Vinod?

The Thar MDI got Launched - Seems like a 2010 version of the MM540. Why call this the Thar in the first place and create an identity crisis ?

The Thar Crde got launched subsequently with the options of one customising so as to have all the bells and whistle.

I still cant understand why the BOLERO STORM is not available with a 4WD option ? Is it because Mahindra is not able to position the products as the pricing will clash ? I dont think so considering that most of people consider the "Thar CRDe" as a "Lifestyle" statement.

So we have the following

Thar MDI - 2 WD 2523 cc DI Turbo Diesel / 63 HP
Bolero Plus / DI / SLE / SLX - 2 WD 2523 cc DI Turbo Diesel / 63 HP
Bolero SLX - 4 WD (XD3PU / 63 HP)
Bolero Storm - 2 WD (2.49L CRDe Engine / 97 HP)
Thar Crde - 4WD (2.49L CRDe Engine / 97 HP )

Techically there should be only 2 product lines (purely based on the engines)

Bolero Series - 2 WD 2523 cc DI Turbo Diesel / 63 HP. Vehicles are
  • Thar MDI (should be renamed as "Bolero Open-top"),
  • Plus DI / SLE / SLX
Thar Series - 2.49L CRDe Engine / 97 HP. Vehicles are
  • Thar CRDe (Open top "lifestyle") and
  • Bolero Storm should be rebadged (along with techincal improvements from Thar) and called "Thar Unlimited" (taking a cue from Wrangler) .
Dont you guys agree?

One more thing.. Why was the post moved into "Indian Car Scene" while I had originally posted it on 4x4 - Vehicles. If you notice I have also changed the title of this post, as there has been a role reversal of sorts !!!
The points raised by you have been done to death on various other threads like http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...-page-2-a.html (Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!)

@Mods: Please lock this thread as this topic has been discussed at multiple other places.
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Old 26th December 2010, 22:58   #14
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Default Re: Bolero CRDe Storm - Why the Thar ???

Vivek, in your long absence, every possible angle regarding Thar has been explored and we have been forced to close one Thar thread after another to stop the non-stop flow of repeat discussions.

If you want to keep this discussion to Bolero Storm, we can keep this thread open. But if the discussion spill over into Thar, then it will become yet another Thar thread.
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Old 26th December 2010, 23:55   #15
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Default Re: Bolero CRDe Storm - Why the Thar ???

The Bolero Storm 4WD makes a very good sense. Presently one has to shell out 12lakhs plus to get a everyday practical 4wd with lockable cabin, AC, although Mahindra will make those buyers pay for unnecessary gadgets that might not appeal to many of the buyers.

With a Bolero, a person can make it do two things, enjoy offroading as well as carry on grocery, office-commute, shopping mall, people carrying duties within a secure and air conditioned environment.

But I think a Bolero Storm 4WD is on its way.
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