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Old 4th November 2013, 12:22   #76
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
For the purpose of this thread I will certainly prefer a brand new vehicle, run it for some 15 K all over the place, check whats really happening WRT my hopes/dreams & reality .
Sudarshan
+1 to that, ideally for an overlander I would prefer buying the car 3-4 years in advance, spend some good quality time with it. Burn gas worth 35-40K Kms before I can venture into my dream run. Think it will be a slow state of evolution rather than the 'Big Bang Theory'.
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Old 4th November 2013, 14:00   #77
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

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-- Think it will be a slow state of evolution rather than the 'Big Bang Theory'.
Yes getting accustomed with the vehicle is important. Knowing its strong & weak points is essential. Our life depends on it.

Also what I have seen & experienced few times is that what we " Dream "about a particular vehicle, which may not actually suit us in daily grind. We look at the vehicle from out side or have experience of few rides, but that does not mean it will be a pleasure affair for some 20 K miles ride.

This is currently happening with the Thar CRDe, yes many dreamed much about it, finally finding it a wrong choice.

This cant be done for some really long journey.

Sudarshan
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Old 4th November 2013, 19:52   #78
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
Its not as sturdy as we think
You will be surprised how much of the potential is there to reinforce the chassis at particular point for extra weight/load. And it can take abuse. I have seen BRO/GREF guys beating the hell out of this vehicle on terrains a jeep would shudder

Quote:
Is it available right now in 4x4 mode ? what about top speeds ?

and the spares ....
Except lack of 4X4 everything roots for this vehicle. Excellent top speeds, comfortable ride, easy customisation, integrated cabin, prebuilt body, decent driving comfort, manageable dimensions.

Quote:
I personally like this, my choice .

we had one (4x2), bit clumsy in traffic, had a good turning circle (this may be limited in 4x4), good ground clearance but very rough ride.

Very durable & not much complicated . No impressive top speeds.

Are they available in civil markets ?
But an overland expedition vehicle is supposed to spend as little time as possible in traffic, no? Yes, on order basis they would provide you with one. I have seen some new badging on a few dumpsters here and they seem to be capable of some good cruising speeds. Negatives would be getting to re fabricate the body. The quality would leave a lot of gaps in refinement.

Quote:
naah , I think its days are gone .
but still as options go, this would offer an ideal combination between pre fabricated sitting cabin with AC and the load bay modified suitably for accommodation. The longer roof area up front will give you a strong base for water storage tank/ sleeping quarters with an openable roof/awning.

Also what planned layout you want is based on ones requirements; and the things one would like to incorporate would also help in limiting the choice of the vehicle.

Last edited by GTO : 5th November 2013 at 10:57. Reason: PM coming up on using quote properly
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Old 4th November 2013, 20:20   #79
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

Many people across the world have done overlanding in Suzuki Jimnys aka Gypsy. How would our Getaways or Xenons fare in comparison to the Gypsy? They may have outdone the Gypsy many times in really rough off road terrains. But would you still choose a Getaway or Bolero or Xenon or TL 207 over a Jimny(Gypsy) for an overland expedition? Do you think they would be able to endure multiple overlandings in their lifetimes?

I also think that if there was 4X4 variant available, then the Ambassador would be able to endure the expeditions. It is an unlikely contender, but its reliability and durablity is unquestionable.
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Old 4th November 2013, 22:32   #80
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

Whenever I hear Expedition, the following Vehicle comes to mind. It seems to have everything one would need in a long expedition:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...gul-panag.html (Interesting Modified Scorpio Getaway for Gul Panag)

Building an Expedition Vehicle-1069185_538049609586044_1829204335_n.jpg
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Old 4th November 2013, 22:58   #81
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

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Originally Posted by amrisharm View Post
Whenever I hear Expedition, the following Vehicle comes to mind.
+1 to that, But am sure this would have been a very costly build as well!!!
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Old 5th November 2013, 02:44   #82
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

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Originally Posted by ku69rd View Post
+1 to that, But am sure this would have been a very costly build as well!!!
It's still cheaper than a toyota hilux!

Transcontinental road trips require something like what Jaskirat built for Gul and one has to have a sponsor or pocket full of money to fun the expedition.
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Old 5th November 2013, 07:18   #83
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
It's still cheaper than a toyota hilux!

Transcontinental road trips require something like what Jaskirat built for Gul and one has to have a sponsor or pocket full of money to fun the expedition.
Yep, the build does look like a dream expedition vehicle for many of us. Agree with you on the transcontinental road trip we would need a similar car.

Rather than the money, imagine the paperwork that would be required to have a smooth and hassle free drive.
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Old 5th November 2013, 07:46   #84
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

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Originally Posted by amrisharm View Post
Whenever I hear Expedition, the following Vehicle comes to mind. It seems to have everything one would need in a long expedition:
I somehow feel this as an odd combination. either it could be a full length load bay/tray, ready for any add on conversions or a Full length cabin like the 5 or 3 door LWB station-wagon .

The double cab & half tray, does not make sense for touring its not lockable, unless special arrangement is made.

Yes its glamours like its owner but practically it has limits.

I would any day prefer a M&M 4x4 Utility with full load bay/tray, later to be build in to a box for living & camping & utility storage.

The problem with the soft top backs are the lock-ability, its NOT weatherproof, your luggage can either get stolen or WET, yes very wet,cant afford that.

Sudarshan
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Old 5th November 2013, 10:57   #85
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

A Scorpio, Tata Safari or a global product if considered - Fortuner would meet the case.
But talking of purely Indian makes.

Scorpio and Safari can do it, not without problems for sure. But it will be a managable thing.

For rougher terrain some offroading combined the modified Scorpio Getaway or a Xenon from Tata Motors can do well.

But if there is severe off roading involved like crossing deserts, serious snow, or rocky wadis and fording water then none will make it, now here we get into the territory of very serious off roaders.

Landcruiser - preferably 80 series even today
Jeep Wrangler
FJ Cruiser
Nissan Patrol
Hummer H1 and 2
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Old 5th November 2013, 16:53   #86
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

Very interesting topic, even I was planning to start a thread about the same. Before anyone think about a vehicle, doesnít it make sense to first think about requirement and then decide which vehicle is closest to match requirements.
I am also planning an expedition vehicle (though I am not going for any trans continent exploration trip in near future, but definitely want to cover remotest places across India).

So, what are my requirements?
i. Seating space for 4 adults and 1-2 child/ren
ii. AC and heater, power steering, power windows and central locking
iii. Short enough to squeeze in through narrow trails, gullies, village roads and long enough to accommodate 4 adults, luggage (2 big suitcases, 2 big rucksacks, 2 small bags), spares, tools, camping equipments and supplies
iv. Vehicle has to be Indian make, should share common platform and technology with most sold products with widest reach
v. It has to be non-ECM controlled engine with basic electricals. Engine should have 100 BHP of power and oodles of torque at low RPM
vi. 4x4 is mandatory but electric shifter is no-no, I canít even think of getting stuck in deep jungle with malfunctioned electric shifter. Manual shifter may look crude but its far more reliable than electric shiifter
viii. It has to be Full hardtop vehicle, which can house internal or external roll cage, roof rack, extra spare tyre on bonnet or roof
ix. Openable roof (doesnít matter to me whether its sun roof or cut on roof with metal cover) which should have enough space for at least two adults to pop out and look around
x. Should be able to cruise @ 115 Kmph (maximum speed which I think is safe for Indian roads) throughout the day (16-18 hrs continuously is maximum I drove till date at one go and maximum I would drive in future in one go)
xi. Should have space to accommodate below accessories
a. Single burner gas stove with cylinder
b. Car fridge
c. Inverter 12volts DC to 220 volts AC
d. Small generator
e. Tent for 4
f. Should have arrangements to install side yawning
g. 20 liters water dispenser
h. 4 foldable chairs with one foldable table and shade
i. Food supplies and utensils
j. Small briefcase of comprehensive first aid kit
k. One medium size bag of camping accessories (torches, lanterns, anchors, knives, fishing rod, lighter
l. Two spare tyres
m. Front and rear winch
n. 2 big tow ropes, 2 small tow ropes, snatch block, 2 big, 2 small shackles
o. Twin battery set-up ( I heard its good to have but donít know intricacies)
p. Two jerry cans of 20 liters, one for diesel and one for water
q. High lift jack
r. Sand ladder
s. Snorkel
t. One bag full of essential spares
u. One suitcase full of tools, and jump cable, puncture repair kit, small air compressor
v. Rear pintle hook (donít want tow hitches which are commonly seen in modern vehicles


Based on above requirements, which Indian manufactured vehicles should I go for? Remember, I am not considering big vehicles like (407, tempo traveler, Swaraj Mazda, Stallion etc) as I want vehicle to be agile and light enough to enter deep inside jungle, narrow trails, limited space for reverse/turns etc. I have also excluded vehicles above Scorpio and Safari because very limited service and spares support available for then (Pajero, SantaFe, Endeavor, Montero etc). Thar, Gypsy, MM550/540, CL550/500 have been excluded because of their size
1. MM Scorpio 4x4:
a. Pros:
i. Powerful engine
ii. Reliable vehicle
iii. Easy availability of parts
iv. Easy availability of mechanics
b.Cons
i. ECM controlled engine with electrical shifter
ii. Bumpy ride
iii. Limited space

2. Tata Safari 4x4
a. Pros:
i. Powerful engine
ii. Rear LSD
iii. Spacious and comfortable
iv. Mile cruncher
b.Cons
i. ECM controlled engine with electrical shifter
ii. Unreliable and high maintenance
iii. Cant be repaired by any road side mechanic

3. Force Gurkha HT 4x4
a.Pros:
i. Bulletproof engine
ii. Company fitted snorkel
iii. Company fitted front and rear manual diff locks
iv. Has better articulation than Thar

b.Cons
i. ECM controlled engine ( I can live with it)
ii. Non existent support network
iii. Cant be repaired by any road side mechanic
iv. Scarcity of spares
v. Bumpy (as compared to Scorpio and Safari)

c. Tata Xenon 4x4
i.Pros:
1. Powerful engine
2. Rear LSD
3. Spacious and comfortable
4. Mile cruncher
ii.Cons
1. ECM controlled engine with electrical shifter
2. Unreliable and high maintenance
3. Cant be repaired by any road side mechanic
4. Long overhangs
5. Open loading bay

d. MM Getaway 4x4
i.Pros:
1. Powerful engine
2. Reliable vehicle
3. Easy availability of parts
4. Easy availability of mechanics
ii.Cons
1. ECM controlled engine with electrical shifter
2. Bumpy ride
3. Long overhangs
4. Open loading bay

e. MM Bolero/Armada Grand 4x4
i.Pros:
1. Reliable vehicle (for me itís an improvised Jeep)
2. Easy availability of parts, spares are cheap
3. Easy availability of mechanics
4. Bare basic structure, no nonsense electronics/electrical
5. Non-IFS vehicle = better offroader
ii.Cons
1. Underpowered engine (XD3P/ DiTurbo), which can be addressed by plonking better engine (first generation Scorpio engine, Isuzu 4FG2 Turbo etc)
2. Bumpy ride, which can be addressed by putting Fiber springs, better shock absorbers etc. but yes, it would never be in the league of Safari, Xenon, Scorpio
3. Basic interior, interior can be spruced up based on my requirement. In fact, for me itís a benefit as I can customize interiors on need basis
4. No creature comfort features (roof mounted AC, rear viper/defogger, comfortable seats with hand rests etc). these all can be added in vehicle later on as well. Rear viper/defogger can be borrowed from Bolero Storm

If I analyse each vehicle with their pros and cons, then it would Bolero with manual shifter anyday for me.
I can keep on writing or getting into finer details of each vehicle, but I leave it on viewers to contribute and debate.

Shubhendra Singh
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Old 5th November 2013, 17:11   #87
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

Shub - Rear viper/defogger can be borrowed from Bolero Storm.

Theres no rear wiper/defogger in Bolero storm, i guess u meant Bolero ZLX with M2DIcr.

Plonking a isuzu 4fjg2 with its own manual shift may be one of the viable option or a scorpio engine (chain or gear drive) with a NGT530R with
BW manual transmission.

Last edited by Rajith : 5th November 2013 at 17:16.
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Old 5th November 2013, 17:45   #88
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Originally Posted by Rajith View Post
Theres no rear wiper/defogger in Bolero storm, i guess u meant Bolero ZLX with M2DIcr.

Plonking a isuzu 4fjg2 with its own manual shift may be one of the viable option or a scorpio engine (chain or gear drive) with a NGT530R with
BW manual transmission.
Rajith Ji,
My bad, yes i meant Bolero ZLX with M2DiCr.
I am planning to put first generation gear drive Scorpio engine (keeping in mind spares availability Vs Isuzu) as its a Non-ECM engine.
Whats your suggestion, is it worth considering or should i go for traditional approach of DiTurbo? Yes, i have got hold of a Bolero with NGT530R with
BW manual transmission. Keeping my fingers crossed till i close this deal.

Shubhendra
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Old 5th November 2013, 18:19   #89
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
I somehow feel this as an odd combination. either it could be a full length load bay/tray, ready for any add on conversions or a Full length cabin like the 5 or 3 door LWB station-wagon .


I would any day prefer a M&M 4x4 Utility with full load bay/tray, later to be build in to a box for living & camping & utility storage.

Sudarshan
Sudarshan ji,
Your comments on Bolero Plz !

Shubhendra
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Old 5th November 2013, 18:38   #90
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Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Sudarshan ji,
Your comments on Bolero Plz !

Shubhendra
Gone through your post, inspiring & the things you have uncovered, for me they reminded me of the fire within & such long lists made while dreaming an expedition .

You deserve a brand new 110 Sir .

Well back to topic .

Shubhendra , you have heard me saying a new vehicle,so if a Bolero it has to be ?

#1) Brand New vehicle of course

#2) NGT 30 ,manual B&W ,Fixed flange hubs

#3) Non ECM engine (possible ??)

#4) add 30 inch dia tyres ,235 wide

#5) add one extra long ( No 3 ) leaf to rear suspension

#6) add 40 ltr fuel tank (as 2nd tank) & dual line switch below driver seat

#7) add dual spare wheel carrier made out of pipes in the rear ,separate from the tail gate

#8) add bracket to carry spare leafs (main ones ) on front bumper above the winch

#9) add ARB tyre inflaters below front passenger seats along with dual (2nd) battery along with split charge system.

#10) I wont recommend fixed tanks for water but 30 ltr cans with holding brackets

#11) roof racks & roof top tents , lots of options & hope its not that critical to make sizable difference like above.

#12) raised intake & possibly detachable raised exhaust.

is this you want or else to be added ?

Sudarshan

P.S. No alterations with the basic drive train, leave it just like that, as it came from the factory. Trust me, we are not certified engineers & we are not talking a weekend OTR here. Any such mischief... well .

Last edited by Sudarshan : 5th November 2013 at 18:55.
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