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Old 5th November 2013, 21:04   #91
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
Gone through your post, inspiring & the things you have uncovered, for me they reminded me of the fire within & such long lists made while dreaming an expedition .
Thank you !

You deserve a brand new 110 Sir .
Can not afford a defender, nor even a new Pajero for such intermittent usage

Well back to topic .

Shubhendra , you have heard me saying a new vehicle,so if a Bolero it has to be ?

#1) Brand New vehicle of course
Why brand new vehicle ? why not well restored vehicle with all original spares without playing with original dynamics?

#2) NGT 30 ,manual B&W ,Fixed flange hubs
Yes, this is what i am targeting

#3) Non ECM engine (possible ??)
all Bolero 4x4s were non ECM engine

#4) add 30 inch dia tyres ,235 wide
What if i opt for 245/75/16 in place of original setup 215/75/15 ? it would increase ground clearance as well. AT or MT tyres?

#5) add one extra long ( No 3 ) leaf to rear suspension
Yes, what is the logic of changing leaf number 3 only, why not any other leaf?

#6) add 40 ltr fuel tank (as 2nd tank) & dual line switch below driver seat
Where will i fit this tank? doesnt it make sense to have few jerrycans for extra liters of diesel?

#7) add dual spare wheel carrier made out of pipes in the rear ,separate from the tail gate
tried on our old bolero (2WD) but tyres were popping out of body

#8) add bracket to carry spare leafs (main ones ) on front bumper above the winch
I had this in mind, similar to GPWs. May be under body below front pillion side seat

#9) add ARB tyre inflaters below front passenger seats along with dual (2nd) battery along with split charge system.
Benefit of dual battery set-up? i am not planning to run too many lights, appliances on battery. what about a small generator ?

#10) I wont recommend fixed tanks for water but 30 ltr cans with holding brackets
Yes, next to rear spare tyre

#11) roof racks & roof top tents , lots of options & hope its not that critical to make sizable difference like above.
I might not go for roof tents as of now, i have 4 person tent which can be fitted on bullet luggage carrier as well

#12) raised intake & possibly detachable raised exhaust.
our wavelengths are matching, even I thought about detachable raised exhaust !

is this you want or else to be added ?
You summed it up sir.
Sudarshan

P.S. No alterations with the basic drive train, leave it just like that, as it came from the factory. Trust me, we are not certified engineers & we are not talking a weekend OTR here. Any such mischief... well .
What if i change only engine (from XD3P to DiTurbo or first gen scorpio engine). dont you think is XD3P is underpowered and has overheating problem. I am not intending to change anything other than Engine. both engines are from Mahindra line and were used with said combo
Sudarshan Ji,
Read my comments, would love to get your feedback. I am seriously considering for such a vehicle and might start work in 2014 towards this direction.

Shubhendra


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Old 5th November 2013, 23:10   #92
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Sudarshan Ji,
I am seriously considering for such a vehicle and might start work in 2014 towards this direction.
Sir,
With all due respect to you and your knowledge (have been following your jeep & restoration threads albeit silently & a big fan of your jeep) don't you think the bolero engines (not the CRDE) would be too agrarian for such extensive usage? I mean we are speaking of an expedition vehicle which should be able to sustain you for a good 6-8 weeks. Don't you think it will get very taxing for the mind and body to bear it for extended hours of notice?

Regarding the water, felt 25 liter for 4 adults would be very minimal unless you get water quite freely. We are talking of cooking and obviously some amount of dish-washing would be there.

My 2 Cents Sir.
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Old 5th November 2013, 23:55   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Sudarshan Ji,
Read my comments, would love to get your feedback. I am seriously considering for such a vehicle and might start work in 2014 towards this direction.

Shubhendra
Well let me answer one by one, it will be long, so I will answer few now & few later.

#1)
Quote:
Why brand new vehicle ? why not well restored vehicle with all original spares without playing with original dynamics?
Think, Think, Think

Be a crank shaft , ohh it hurts when I have already gone through some 150 K kms & the owner has re ground me now for 3rd oversize. Now you feel something ?

Be a valve seat, oh it hurts ... some workshop owner has made me of a "proper casting " material ......

Be the head, its faced ok , but the metal has some degrading effect over the years .... some stud might slip the threads ....

Be a gear wheel, how many jerks it has taken ?

Its a LONG list, every washer, every shim counts.

How many parts are you going to change ? & who told you the parts come in MM packing via "Susheel" have the same original OE quality ?

Not yet touched the subject of repair job quality/workmanship.

#4) What ever the disc size, you get a tyre size calculator on net, dont exceed 30" dia with any tyre & disc combination, it gives enough room below the Dana 44 diff, yet not raising the vehicle too tall . also 245 contact patch, is it really needed ? Or just for the sake of looks you are creating unnecessary drag ? will it enhance load bearing qualities ? (for expedition purpose)

#5)
Quote:
Yes, what is the logic of changing leaf number 3 only, why not any other leaf?
Again, be a leaf, whats the purpose of longer leaves & what the shorter
leaves do ?
I have done it on my 5 door steel body 540 & on the previous LR & did the same on the current one too.

#6)
Quote:
Where will i fit this tank? doesnt it make sense to have few jerrycans for extra liters of diesel?
Whats the advantage of a fixed tank over jerry cans?
Fuel is handled safely with much less handling, mounted securely & with a flick of a switch you can shift from main tank to the secondary, be it rain or a thunderstorm.

Why so many overland vehicles have it ? army trucks have it .

Jerrycans, inside vehicle or out side, you will need to secure them with sturdy brackets. Inside they might smell or spill, out side ? Unsafe, exposed to elements & even damage or theft.

Fitting extra fuel tank can be sorted out , not much of a problem.

Sudarshan

Last edited by Sudarshan : 6th November 2013 at 00:11.
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Old 6th November 2013, 09:52   #94
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Cool Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Sudarshan Ji,
Read my comments, would love to get your feedback.
OK part two.

Quote:
tried on our old bolero (2WD) but tyres were popping out of body
#7) 30 x 2 its total 60 inches (as per my calculation), you must have fitted larger dia tyres.
BTW whats the width of the bolero body ? 54" or 56 " ?? I think calculate it with the foot steps/rock sliders & they should fit. But yes your concern is valid.

Quote:
Benefit of dual battery set-up? i am not planning to run too many lights, appliances on battery. what about a small generator ?
#9) I too thought of generators but compared to size & output. I have a small one, honda make gives 3 amps 230 V current & consumes a space of four Jeep batteries.

Cons

a) Carrying multiple fuels. Those we normally see run on kerosene & start on petrol

b) Size/weight to output ratio, compared to a deep cycle battery,-- negative

c) Type of output AC, you will need 230v AC equipments to run on

d) Equipment working, negative . Things like in vehicle tyre inflators are 12 V DC

Pros

These are only suitable for larger camper trucks,where space is no problem & 230 v AC equipment is in use. But for a Jeep camper ? Naah !!

Using two batteries, the concept is ;-
Battery No.1 is strictly for engine starting & primary/essential vehicle wiring like headlights ,indicators.

Battery No.2 is for all other equipment & overnight lights etc

split charger ;- will charge Battery No. 1 first & when its fully charged , then only charge the No. 2. Both are charged on vehicle alternator.

Quote:
I might not go for roof tents as of now, i have 4 person tent which can be fitted on bullet luggage carrier as well
# 11) Surprisingly 50% of the places we stop for night stay, found out to be unsuitable for a tent to be erected on ground for various reasons. Like , too thick under growth , rocky surface, wet/muddy ground & crawling creatures .

Its a very good Idea to a have a ready roof top platform to sleep after a day's hard work , rather than spending an hour to setup things.

Please Note that most of the glamours things we see are actually inconvenient to practice, ground tents is one of them .

Sudarshan

Last edited by Sudarshan : 6th November 2013 at 09:58.
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Old 6th November 2013, 10:50   #95
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

have look at this link of another thread.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...gul-panag.html (Interesting Modified Scorpio Getaway for Gul Panag)

I would love to have something like this in my garage.

One thing I hate is spending 50% of my budget just on accommodation in resorts and hotels. But then I worry how safe is camping out with family.
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Old 6th November 2013, 11:03   #96
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

The perfect thread to follow!

This has been a rather latent desire of mine as I have an old Safari TCIC 4wd. I am not sure if I should sell it or should I use it as a base vehicle for something like what this thread talks about.

- The current TCIC engine isn't going to suffice as its underpowered so maybe I go with the 14B here too, but with a Turbo this time. Again like Shubhendra says, non-ECM engine is definitely the way to go.
- I don't see anyone mention ABS/Airbags as a requirement. Don't you guys think that a vehicle that's going to be on the road for long should have that?
- Double battery setup idea by Sudarshan Bhai is definitely required.
- Possibly naive but how do you compare a camper trailer v/s expedition vehicle? Thoughts about that?

Looking forward to more ideas.

@Banna, If you give me your CJ5 I can give you the Safari in return. Deal ya no deal?

Cheers,
Adi
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Old 6th November 2013, 11:21   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVR View Post
- I don't see anyone mention ABS/Airbags as a requirement. Don't you guys think that a vehicle that's going to be on the road for long should have that?
You are right, I am too old to even think of it


Quote:
- Possibly naive but how do you compare a camper trailer v/s expedition vehicle? Thoughts about that?
Trailer hauling ??

#1) its not a mile crunching devise

#2) Glamours yet tricky to drive

#3) Difficult reversing, those who are off road " keedas " will miss the instant reversing facility/habit of Jeeps , in case of getting stuck

Sudarshan
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Old 6th November 2013, 13:55   #98
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ku69rd View Post
Sir,
With all due respect to you and your knowledge (have been following your jeep & restoration threads albeit silently & a big fan of your jeep) don't you think the bolero engines (not the CRDE) would be too agrarian for such extensive usage? I mean we are speaking of an expedition vehicle which should be able to sustain you for a good 6-8 weeks. Don't you think it will get very taxing for the mind and body to bear it for extended hours of notice?

Regarding the water, felt 25 liter for 4 adults would be very minimal unless you get water quite freely. We are talking of cooking and obviously some amount of dish-washing would be there.

My 2 Cents Sir.
MK Sir,
Neither i am SIR nor i am knowledgeable.
Bolero 4x4 came with two engines XD3P and DiTurbo. DiTurbo may be agrarian but its bulletproof engine and can sustain unremitting abuse. And yes it can cruise at 100 KMPH throughout the day albeit noisy and lack top end punch but has enough torque at low end. our family owned one (2WD) for 5 years and more than 1.5 lac kilometers.
XD3P, i never used one and have heard mixed reviews from people, but i am not keen on it because of overheating issues. My close relative still have one (GLX 4x4) for more 2 Lac kilometers, and had to change engine to brand new XD3P after 1.2 lacs. he is not very happy with this engine though!
all CRDE engine come with ECM (if i am right) and i dont want to put ECM controlled engine. and might opt for other option which may sound and perform agrarian but do the work.
if you read first line of my starting statement i mentioned "I am also planning an expedition vehicle (though I am not going for any trans continent exploration trip in near future, but definitely want to cover remotest places across India)."
May be our perspectives are different because you and few others want a vehicle which can sustain 8-10 weeks of trans continental expedition. whereas i am talking about 2-3 weeks of expedition once or twice in a year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
Well let me answer one by one, it will be long, so I will answer few now & few later.

#1)

Think, Think, Think

How many parts are you going to change ? & who told you the parts come in MM packing via "Susheel" have the same original OE quality ?


#4) What ever the disc size, you get a tyre size calculator on net, dont exceed 30" dia with any tyre & disc combination, it gives enough room below the Dana 44 diff, yet not raising the vehicle too tall . also 245 contact patch, is it really needed ? Or just for the sake of looks you are creating unnecessary drag ? will it enhance load bearing qualities ? (for expedition purpose)

#5)

Again, be a leaf, whats the purpose of longer leaves & what the shorter
leaves do ?
I have done it on my 5 door steel body 540 & on the previous LR & did the same on the current one too.

#6)

Whats the advantage of a fixed tank over jerry cans?
Fuel is handled safely with much less handling, mounted securely & with a flick of a switch you can shift from main tank to the secondary, be it rain or a thunderstorm.

Why so many overland vehicles have it ? army trucks have it .

Jerrycans, inside vehicle or out side, you will need to secure them with sturdy brackets. Inside they might smell or spill, out side ? Unsafe, exposed to elements & even damage or theft.

Fitting extra fuel tank can be sorted out , not much of a problem.

Sudarshan
Reply to your points:
1) convinced now, new engine makes sense, but i am still not convinced for a new vehicle :P
Regarding Sushil, Do you know any other supplier who can sell me ORIGINAL spares.

4) I was referring 245 as i can get mud terrain tyres in that size. I am not there for looks you know. What you suggest MT tyre or AT tyre?
I am planning to have zero offset alloys/rims to keep tyres within wheel arches

5) Would be great if you enlighten me, i have limited knowledge on function of each leaf in a pack

6) if you say that "Fitting extra fuel tank can be sorted out , not much of a problem" then i have no problems. As i know who to disturb for this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
OK part two.


#7) 30 x 2 its total 60 inches (as per my calculation), you must have fitted larger dia tyres.
BTW whats the width of the bolero body ? 54" or 56 " ?? I think calculate it with the foot steps/rock sliders & they should fit. But yes your concern is valid.

#9) I too thought of generators but compared to size & output. I have a small one, honda make gives 3 amps 230 V current & consumes a space of four Jeep batteries.

split charger ;- will charge Battery No. 1 first & when its fully charged , then only charge the No. 2. Both are charged on vehicle alternator.

# 11) Surprisingly 50% of the places we stop for night stay, found out to be unsuitable for a tent to be erected on ground for various reasons. Like , too thick under growth , rocky surface, wet/muddy ground & crawling creatures .

Its a very good Idea to a have a ready roof top platform to sleep after a day's hard work , rather than spending an hour to setup things.

Sudarshan
7) Width of Bolero is 1745 MM or 68.7 ". while trying earlier for double spare tyres, we left some space in middle to operate rear door latch. You have a valid point, if i create a separate support system, then i can fit these tyres

9) Convinced to have dual battery setup in place of generator.
What is split charger, is it available in market. You must have installed it in your LR110.

11) You need to help me to design a over roof tent setup. I can not spend one lac on roof tent. Lets do DIY on roof tent, it will be fun. And i will be able to learn few good things from you !

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVR View Post
The perfect thread to follow!

- The current TCIC engine isn't going to suffice as its underpowered so maybe I go with the 14B here too, but with a Turbo this time.

@Banna, If you give me your CJ5 I can give you the Safari in return. Deal ya no deal?
Aditya Bana,
You have become fan of 14B, I will have to drive your Jeep to see what it is all about.
CJ5 is in pieces and at different places. I can give you address of each place to collect pieces. If i dont work on Bolero, then definitely its CJ5 in 2014. And yes, i would bring it to Poona to give some rest to my Classic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
Trailer hauling ??

#1) its not a mile crunching devise

#2) Glamours yet tricky to drive

#3) Difficult reversing, those who are off road " keedas " will miss the instant reversing facility/habit of Jeeps , in case of getting stuck

Sudarshan
1) I disagree, I have driven trailer attached Jeep (Invader, CJ3B, GPW) for days inside jungle, highway, village rodas. Only thing is you have to get used to it

Once we went to 'Wild Elephant watching' to deep jungle 300 kms from our town.80% of our total journey of 1500 kms was non existent roads. We were using Invader with trailer and it was PAIN to use it in thick forest. finally we had to leave it in jungle to continue our expedition. If you have a base location from where you roam around then a trailer is a big help else its pain.

Shubhendra
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Old 6th November 2013, 16:21   #99
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Reply to your points:
1) convinced now, new engine makes sense, but i am still not convinced for a new vehicle :P
Ya Ya , some day you will get convinced like I got, who was a great fan of " Purani Mazboot Gaadi " (the old faithful)

Quote:
Regarding Sushil, Do you know any other supplier who can sell me ORIGINAL spares.
Its not exactly about "sushil" or the very helping Gentleman on the counter, its not the supposed OE quality that we pay for.

Quote:
4) I was referring 245 as i can get mud terrain tyres in that size. I am not there for looks you know. What you suggest MT tyre or AT tyre?
I am planning to have zero offset alloys/rims to keep tyres within wheel arches
Large buttoned tyres like the maxis or apollo bullet are not exactly suitable for wet & hard surfaces. you must be knowing lug tyres also make lot of noise on hard surface.

Quote:
5) Would be great if you enlighten me, i have limited knowledge on function of each leaf in a pack
Me too not an engineer, but I am trying to guide your thinking towards something, here you need to find-out few things by yourself. Not so Hard try it, or else I will share.

Quote:
6) if you say that "Fitting extra fuel tank can be sorted out , not much of a problem" then i have no problems. As i know who to disturb for this
Oh ya why not .

Quote:
7) ==== You have a valid point, if i create a separate support system, then i can fit these tyres
you are almost there, key is separate bracket/frame. Not connected with tail gate.


Quote:
11) You need to help me to design a over roof tent setup.=
What is needed is a platform on which your existing tent can be put on,its been done before. No need to spend on "branded" items, those are for rich people.


Sudarshan
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Old 6th November 2013, 16:40   #100
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

This is turning into a serious thread now.
@Shubendra: What all you have listed will not fit anything smaller than a Judo Toofan. Unless ofcourse you go the trailer way. It would be a tight fit but a Mahindra Pik up with the extended load bay may also accomodate with suitable modifictaions and extending the living cabin over the front cab.
Using a dual battery system is tricky as what if the alternator fails? A small honda genset fitted on swinging arm to the lower part of the rear residential space will be a boon. The awning is relatively easy to make and use. Some of our rover jeeps of aromoured units have them for showoff, lolz. The roof top tent is another good exercise in creativity. We can share the designs when you come to it. I have a few desgins I plan on trying out as and when I get my hands onto a gypsy/jeep very soon.

Last edited by wanderernomad : 6th November 2013 at 16:42.
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Old 6th November 2013, 22:05   #101
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

The stalwarts of our auto industry prepped up for the task....
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Building an Expedition Vehicle-1069185_538049609586044_1829204335_n.jpg  

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Old 6th November 2013, 22:18   #102
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
Ya Ya , some day you will get convinced like I got, who was a great fan of " Purani Mazboot Gaadi " (the old faithful)

Sudarshan
Yes, i am yet to get convinced
Let me do my homework, will get back to you once i am back from Gokak event.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderernomad View Post
@Shubendra:
1) What all you have listed will not fit anything smaller than a Judo Toofan. Unless ofcourse you go the trailer way. It would be a tight fit but a Mahindra Pik up with the extended load bay may also accomodate with suitable modifictaions and extending the living cabin over the front cab.
2) Using a dual battery system is tricky as what if the alternator fails? A small honda genset fitted on swinging arm to the lower part of the rear residential space will be a boon.
3) The awning is relatively easy to make and use. Some of our rover jeeps of aromoured units have them for showoff, lolz. The roof top tent is another good exercise in creativity.
4) We can share the designs when you come to it. I have a few desgins I plan on trying out as and when I get my hands onto a gypsy/jeep very soon.
Dear Wandernomad,
I have numbered your replies:
1) What i have envisaged, i think i would be able to squeeze in at least 80% of what i have planned. Yes, i need to work on space optimization, but feels like achievable
2) I had the same thought in my mind, when i was thinking about small genset. it can even help us to charge battery
4) Yes, its a pretty straight forward fitment
5) I know its too early for me to work on it, but i may get hold of something in a fortnight. Would appreciate if you would share your designs during later stage of mod.

Thanks,
Shubhendra Singh
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Old 6th November 2013, 23:19   #103
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

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Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
3) I had the same thought in my mind, when i was thinking about small genset. it can even help us to charge battery

5) I know its too early for me to work on it, but i may get hold of something in a fortnight. Would appreciate if you would share your designs during later stage of mod.
Shubhendra,

Will ensure that I will stop calling you Sir. Now this is exciting stuff to read that you are trying it out over the net 15 days. Hope you will spawn a new thread for it to keep us posted with real time updates?

Would we not be able to replace the standard alternator with a higher rating one to augment the charging for the secondary battery as well? Sorry am a noob in this section and wanted your views on it.
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Old 7th November 2013, 08:52   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderernomad View Post
Using a dual battery system is tricky as what if the alternator fails? A small honda genset fitted on swinging arm to the lower part of the rear residential space will be a boon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
2) I had the same thought in my mind, when i was thinking about small genset. it can even help us to charge battery
Quote:
Originally Posted by ku69rd View Post
Would we not be able to replace the standard alternator with a higher rating one to augment the charging for the secondary battery as well?
Hey you genset fans

Makeup your minds quick, because I am going to come after you with some pics & figures , soon

I still say dual battery RULZ for a Jeep size vehicle.

Sudarshan
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Old 7th November 2013, 10:55   #105
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Default Re: Which Indian Expedition Vehicle?

Started this topic 3 years back. With every growing year, needs / options / choices change.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...n-vehicle.html (Building an Expedition Vehicle)
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