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Old 25th March 2010, 20:34   #1
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Default Need Help on Gypsy MG410

Hello All Member Here
I would 1st like to thank you BHP for accepting me as member. Its a previllage and pride for me. I bought a used Gypsy MG410 yesterday for wildlife photography & for use in my construction site. I have very little technical knowledge and don't understand much about technical aspects of vehicle. Have never driven a 4X4 before. Although the looks and engine are in good condition (as per MUL advisors) I am not very happy after driving it. Now following are my few questions. I would be very glad if someone can guide me

1. Is a 1lt (1000c) engine of MG410 enough for 2/3 persons with some baggage load for roaming around jungles and forest searching for animals? It was a disappointing for me when i read here in this forum that the engine i got is not enough for me. But my previous owner claims he had this vehicle in many forests with easy and have crossed terrains with ease. I don't know if that is true or not.

2. I need a smooth driving, I have to use a lot of power to handle the steering when the vehicle is at slow speed. Also lot of power is needed to take a U turn. The previous owner suggested me to change to radial Tyre to get smoother feel. Should I? The tyres are in very good condition, provably it has been changed recently.

3. Engine sound is not smooth, what things i should look for to make it smooth. Is their any tweaks to fine tune the engine for my needs.

4. I want to make it a 2 seater cabin using metal sheets for securing the cabin as we carry expensive camera lens, laptop etc that we can't afford to keep it in open while chasing some animal in forest. It would be grate if i can fit a low power AC / a music system / car charger for mobile phone charging. I also want have a complete new look of the cabin by changing the seats, dashboard small steering wheel, mats etc. Please suggest what are the possibilities to give a decent interior for my gypsy within a decent budget.

5. What are the basic most important and essential things i should change to have a better feel of the vehicle considering technical side within a budget of 30K for the time being. Am not that bothered about the looks now as it can be done any time and slowly i can keep adding things.

6. Is is worth spending on MG410 or i should do some minimum modification for my purpose and sale it of after a year and buy a Gypsy King?

I am eagerly waiting for reply.
Thanks in advance

One more request - "Please Don't Do This To Animals...We Are 1 of Them"


Regards
Shakti
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Old 25th March 2010, 21:31   #2
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All I can say is that this is typical Gypsy behavior. The 1.3 MPFI is probably better from an engine performance point of view but the steering effort is about the same and your Gypsy sounds like just about any other regular Gypsy out there.

If you got it for a low price then it is an ideal candidate for a 1.6L Baleno engine transplant. Much more power and torque can be had with this mod.

There are power-steering options available in the market as well but give it time and you'll get used to the standard steering.

AC - go for Subros 80cc compressor and the stock blower. If you are making a hard-top 2 seater cabin then this is more than enough and won't break the bank.

Yes you can get a custom 2-seater cabin made which is slightly bigger than the usual cabins you see on the forum. With the extra space you can store your camera equipment, clothes etc. inside the locked cabin space.

Note that any mods you do with the current engine in place that involve adding load on the engine (ac/ metal cabin etc.) will deteriorate performance even further. Shouldn't be a problem with a 1.6L engine.
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Old 25th March 2010, 22:35   #3
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Congrats on your purchase. what you have mentioned in a typical Gypsy behaviour. please note that this is not a vehicle to be raced on tarmac. it performs better on rough terrain and would be ideal for you for forest use.

1. MG410 derives around 45BHP, which is similar to a M800.

2. You can experiment with tyre pressure for a smoother ride but dont go too low on that. Stock tyres are hard as stones and will not give smoother ride. you can go for tyres like yokohoma geolanders / michelin latitudes / bf goodrich, but each tyre will set you back by around 4k.

3. Take it to MASS and get a routine check up done (as was suggested to me by all the gurus)

4. you can convert to a full metal cabin for the driver and passenger, but as GS mentioned that will add more weight and sap more power. AC also will do the same.
Further mods like seat, music system, mats can be done as per your taste. Change of dashboard actually would not be required if you are low on budget.

5. tyres if not good can be changes, you can check suspension bushes and the leafs and get those done to make your ride better.

6. Depends on your usage. if this is not your only car and you intend to use it only for your forest drives, you can keep it. if you are really enthusiastic then you can plonk a baleno 1.6 or even a gyspy 1.3 mpfi and make a lot of changes.

There are various threads on gypsy mods. Check them out.

Cheers,
Raj
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Old 26th March 2010, 00:49   #4
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Thank you for instant reply @ gsferrari & @ Desmosedici .

Its great feeling to have instant response to my confusion. Thank you very much again

I got the gypsy for 90k, i don't know if that is low or high for MG410. I should have checked before buying but i have been searching for a gypsy from months and i could not resist when i could find one.

I had took the vehicle to a Maruti Service Station for advice. I don't think the authorized service center advisers here have much interest & knowledge in gypsy. When i asked for 1.3lt esteem engine transplant. the adviser was surprised & refused the possibility. He hardly showed any interest in modifying thing. he just said we can repair what ever is their inside, you can try your modification else where MUL doesn't do such modification.

I certainly would like to replace a bolero 1.6L, This means if this transplant can be done on my vehicle then i will have sufficient power and needn't plan to sale off for replacing with Gypsy King Am i correct? if the answer is yes then i can do all the modification i want on my gypsy?

Is the process very complex, can a mechanic with good experience do this modification easily. I have to do it outside of Maruti service center as it can't be done their as per the adviser, Kindly give some insight. Can i have a rough estimate of cost for such a modification please.

45 BHP = similar to maturi 800 engine. Well have never driven a 800 with AC but I had an alto lxi with AC. i remember how it used to struggle for even small climbs with AC turned on. If fitting an AC would result in similar experience with the gypsy then i think it is better to sale off.

As far as hard top 2-seater cabin modification is concerned. Am planning to do it with iron mesh and ACP (aluminum composite panel used for cladding building walls). This may give me a tough and light hard top cabin. Please suggest pro & cons of this idea.

Am ready to change my tyres if i can get better driving comforts although the tyres are almost new in the car. Is the power steering options are available in India or it has to be ordered from abroad. Are these kits reliable enough in deep forest.

My primary car is Spark LT and this gypsy is bought only for forest & sea beach drives. So i just want to know if its current capabilities are enough for moderate off road activities. But am keen on serious off road activities and i will incorporate changes required to the gypsy in the near future. It would be great help to have suggestions and advices to lead myself in right way for off road.

Regards
Shakti
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Old 26th March 2010, 06:08   #5
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Congrats on your acquisition!

An MG410 is just fine for forest type applications: after all you arent going to be doing any rallying business.

do get it to Simlipal!
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Old 26th March 2010, 10:12   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COUGAR View Post
Congrats on your acquisition!

An MG410 is just fine for forest type applications: after all you arent going to be doing any rallying business.

do get it to Simlipal!
Thanks for ensuring me to keep the mg410. I will surely travel to Similipal & Bhitarkanika frequently. I bought this vehicle for getting in to deep forest areas only. I am not sure if my vehicle can handle the rough for 400 or 500 kms drive at a stretch. Just trying to buildup confidence that me & my gypsy can do it.

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Shakti
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Old 26th March 2010, 11:45   #7
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Let me tell you some facts,

If you are seeking advise here, chances are most of the people who will post a reply will be offraoders, their application is different from yours, they need vehicles which can go over anything. The MG 410 was the most reliable expedition vehicle till the 410w was introduced then the king and MPFI king.

You have not mentioned the age so i assume it to be close to a 95-96 model, at that age the engine must require some work, the GB, suspension would also require work. First thing is get the compression check done.

Then get a full service with all the fluids changed, drive your vehicle around like that for some time.

A gypsy would never be as comfortable as a sedan so trying to attain the nearly impossible would be a waste of money, i would suggest to learn to live with the suspension hardness.

Regarding the steering, used PS units are available for gypsy in delhi for 7k onwards, you can ping some Deehli Bhpians for help.

Getting an AC should be second priority because most of your shoots would be outside cabin and if you need to mount a tripod you must need access to the flat bed, building a hard top would prevent this. Cooling is as effective if not more in some soft tops as well and a lot of bhpians have their offroaders air conditioned with a soft top.


Since you said you have almost new tyres there is no point paying attention there.

Just get the essentials taken care of a 15+ year old vehicle can never be as reliable and bulletproof as new. so no point being upset or expecting more. I myself saw a 80s model gypsy for 35k but every body advised me against it as it was an mg410 and not a mg 410w, do in need a wider axel? May be yes may be no, depends on my applications.

Just my 2 cents.

Pramod
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Old 26th March 2010, 15:58   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Let me tell you some facts,

If you are seeking advise here, chances are most of the people who will post a reply will be offraoders, their application is different from yours, they need vehicles which can go over anything. The MG 410 was the most reliable expedition vehicle till the 410w was introduced then the king and MPFI king.......................................

..........

Just my 2 cents.

Pramod
Thanks a lot Pramod Ji for explaining. Am now seriously thinking of keep the MG410 for long. To be honest i don't know how much off road modification i need to do with my MG410 to cater my needs that is wildlife photography. But i also know i have many limitation to face with MG410 if i want to modify it extensively like guys have done here in this forum. Am now very much keen on modifying it for serious off road activities. I would love to drive something like Mr.Khan or Mr.Arjun has. Am i getting tempted...but i must admit i am.....

My vehicle is a 96 model and has done 70000 kms as per the odometer (i don't know if that is showing the actual). i bought it for Rs.90k (Is is high for the model i bought?).

I will get all the basic technical things done this Saturday at a some good MUL authorized SC.

I need to carry some expensive accessories and equipments in the car and at time i have to leave them in the car itself for hours. I need a lockable secured cabin for securing these thing in the vehicle. Else i too would prefer a soft top or may be a complete open top.

AC is not required while shooting but it will give some comfort while going on highways for shooting wildlife.

Power Steering is not that important but i don't know how do you guys do off road drives without it. I find the steering very hard while reversing and taking u terns....am surprised how you guys manage with rocks with this steering .....do i need to go to gym to build up some muscle to handle off road steering.

So ...no need to change the tyres.....Currently CEAT NYLON F78 15LT-almost new tyres

Should i sale my 2 days old MG410 and search for a MG413....just now somebody called up to ask if i want to sale. I am confused now.....

Help me please...
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Old 26th March 2010, 16:54   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaktinanda View Post
Thanks a lot Pramod Ji for explaining. Am now seriously thinking of keep the MG410 for long.
You are welcome

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaktinanda View Post
To be honest i don't know how much off road modification i need to do with my MG410 to cater my needs that is wildlife photography. But i also know i have many limitation to face with MG410 if i want to modify it extensively like guys have done here in this forum. Am now very much keen on modifying it for serious off road activities. I would love to drive something like Mr.Khan or Mr.Arjun has. Am i getting tempted...but i must admit i am..
You will know what modificattions you need in due course of time, for example if you do a lot of deep river crossing, you will get a snorkel, if you go to places where the underbelly is at risk, you would get skid plates and so on, what khan and arujnrudra have are monster offroaders, their only aim is to defeate anykind of terrain thrown infront of them. Off roading is a sporting activity which requires you to be a winner in ever terrain, your king of activity doesnot require that kind of capable vehicle. You already have a very expensive hobby/profession(photography) and having 2 mony pits side by side is not a good idea if you understand what i mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaktinanda View Post
My vehicle is a 96 model and has done 70000 kms as per the odometer (i don't know if that is showing the actual). i bought it for Rs.90k (Is is high for the model i bought?).

96 Model is a MG410 W, and in late 96 the MG413 W was introduced, also called the carb king (i hope i got the dates right). Gypsy markket is different, you are now in a sellers market, you get to decide the value of your vehicle, with increasing demand getting one for the price you paid, i would say you were lucky, please post some pics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaktinanda View Post
I will get all the basic technical things done this Saturday at a some good MUL authorized SC.
Good idea, but even better idea would be to find a good independent mech, MUL techs are not well trained for gypsis as they are rare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaktinanda View Post
I need to carry some expensive accessories and equipments in the car and at time i have to leave them in the car itself for hours. I need a lockable secured cabin for securing these thing in the vehicle. Else i too would prefer a soft top or may be a complete open top.
Then i would suggest a hard top, but if i was you i would definitly look for a place to place the tripod, so maybe a removable hard top like the xenon xt would do the trick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaktinanda View Post
AC is not required while shooting but it will give some comfort while going on highways for shooting wildlife.
Iy you going to use it on proper roads your gypsy will not feel under powered, read this vehicle is not built for spead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaktinanda View Post
Power Steering is not that important but i don't know how do you guys do off road drives without it. I find the steering very hard while reversing and taking u terns....am surprised how you guys manage with rocks with this steering .....do i need to go to gym to build up some muscle to handle off road steering.
Actually ofroading does noty need powersteering, i have never gone for an OTR but i have always heard and read here that offroaders usually do not prefer powersteering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaktinanda View Post
So ...no need to change the tyres.....Currently CEAT NYLON F78 15LT-almost new tyres

Should i sale my 2 days old MG410 and search for a MG413....just now somebody called up to ask if i want to sale. I am confused now.....

Help me please...
MG 413 is definitly a better option but do not suffer loss while selling this one. Find a decent 413 and then sell this one.


Pramod

Last edited by pramodkumar : 26th March 2010 at 16:55.
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Old 26th March 2010, 17:28   #10
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pramodkumar,

I was thinking of ways to secure expensive photography equipment as well. I am not sure if a close cabin is secure, though as the items stored inside would still be visible.

One option I was thinking of was a waterproof foam padded alumunium storage which is securly attached to the pickup bed. It can be lockable or be activated by remote key. This way you can grab equipment quickly and do not have to contort yourselves trying to find that elusive filter from inside a cabin.

Will have to get it fabricated though
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Old 26th March 2010, 18:02   #11
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Note from Mod:

Firstly, no SMS language is permitted on this forum. Second, you need to upload pictures to the Team-BHP attachment system ONLY. Third, please avoid typing with excessive dots.........like...........this.......Thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
You are welcome

You will know what modificattions you need in due co.........

96 Model is a MG410 W, and in late 96 the MG413 W was introduced, also called the carb king (i hope i got ............or the price you paid, i would say you were lucky, please post some pics.

Good idea, but even better idea would be to find a good independent mech, MUL techs are not well trained for gypsy as they are rare.

Then i would suggest a hard top, but if i was you i would definitly look for a place to place the tripod, so maybe a removable hard top like the xenon xt would do the trick.

Iy you going to use it on proper roads your gypsy will not feel under powered, read this vehicle is not built for spead.

Actually ofroading does noty need powersteering, i have never gone for an OTR but i have always heard and read here that offroaders usually do not prefer powersteering.

MG 413 is definitly a better option but do not suffer loss while selling this one. Find a decent 413 and then sell this one.

Pramod
Wow.....its great to get response so fast....thank you thank you and thank u pramod ji for your extended help & support

Here is the pic of the Gypsy i bought



I am not very sure of the model too. as am the third owner. the RC book says it was registered in 96 and also the MUL adviser says its mg410 with maruti 1000 engine.

You are very right, I should concentrate with one passion, offcourse photography is expensive and cut pocket very deep at times.... i just need to go around in forest in search for animal to photograph. All i need is that i should don't feel that i took a wrong decision at some point of time in future, regarding my companion out deep in the forest. Am not very keen on looks but sure i want more capabilities within a limited budget. i will keep adding things to the car when ever budget permits.

Regarding hard top ....am going for only half of it with easy open able one (i have to work out on its design i know)....i will fix few a Gorilla Pods and tripod in the rails of the gypsy for my photography purpose. i do the same with my spark when i go out to shoot. most of the time the shooting is done from side windows....wild animals are very much habituated with vehicles. they are not afraid or react to approaching vehicles but they immediately react to if the see human approaching them, so most of the time i shoot from the cabin without getting out of the car...especially birds. i know this is off topic


I will sale this vehicle if i get back the price i paid .....but only if i get a mg413.

Thanks a lot again for a quick response

Last edited by GTO : 6th April 2010 at 18:02. Reason: Firstly, no SMS language is permitted on this forum. Second, you need to upload pictures to the Team-BHP attachment system
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Old 26th March 2010, 20:37   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatsago View Post
pramodkumar,

I was thinking of ways to secure expensive photography equipment as well. I am not sure if a close cabin is secure, though as the items stored inside would still be visible.

One option I was thinking of was a waterproof foam padded alumunium storage which is securly attached to the pickup bed. It can be lockable or be activated by remote key. This way you can grab equipment quickly and do not have to contort yourselves trying to find that elusive filter from inside a cabin.

Will have to get it fabricated though
Thanks for the insight Pramod Kumar ji. This may work, is their any design work you have done on it. I would love to see if you have given more thought to the idea. i certainly like have a soft top gypsy then hard top

Cheers
Shakti
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Old 26th March 2010, 23:20   #13
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Dude,

dont waste money if you are not going to do serious offroading. What Khan and Arjun have now belong to a different league altogether.

Keep it stock for sometime, feel what is actually needed and then go for the changes. Do not be in a hurry to do major modifications.

With regards to engine swap, it is a very cumbersome process and if not done correctly then you might be left with a poor engined vehicle.

So unless you have that much moolah in your pockets and a very capable mechanic, do not tread on this territory. My 2 cents on it.
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Old 27th March 2010, 03:47   #14
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Is this a 410 or 410W?

I am confused. 1996 Model, then it should be 410W.
No hub locks
&
no side skirts? the previous owner has tinkered it OFF?
The wheel arches looks a little odd
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Old 27th March 2010, 11:24   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmosedici View Post
Dude,

dont waste money if you are not going to do serious offroading. What Khan and Arjun have now belong to a different league altogether.

Keep it stock for sometime, feel what is actually needed and then go for the changes. Do not be in a hurry to do major modifications.

With regards to engine swap, it is a very cumbersome process and if not done correctly then you might be left with a poor engined vehicle.

So unless you have that much moolah in your pockets and a very capable mechanic, do not tread on this territory. My 2 cents on it.
Thanks for writing back again sir....
Sure am not planning to do modification to the extend as Mr.Khan or Arjun Ji has done. But i know i will definitely do some investments on it and once i do so Ii certainly would keep it long even if i get a Gypsy King at through away price. I know me well ...i can't stop myself from modifying it when ever i get surplus for doing it. I have bad habit of spending on capacity building although i may not require it.
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