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Old 2nd July 2011, 17:32   #256
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Default Re: CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Fazal,

Please run the A-Pillar Roll Bars Right Through the floor and also connect them across the dash board to for a "H".

Don't you think the bracket on the dash board will injure the knee/shim and will come off in a roll over and maim the occupant.

PLEASE FOLLOW A TRIED AND TESTED DESIGN, THE INTERNET IS FULL OF THEM.

Regards,

Arka
Arka,

Thanks.

The brackets are way outward of the knee, shin position.

As you suggested there is a horizontal bar (red arrows, pic. 3) over the grab handle is already done, this bar in case of a turn over and rip off lands itself on the passenger grab handle, thus stopping the front points to move downward.

Also the same horizontal bar and brackets are done on the DOG.
Regards,

CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??-img_0825.jpg

CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??-04_iconcj3bqs.jpg

CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??-img_0835.jpg
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Old 2nd July 2011, 17:52   #257
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Default Re: CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??

Fazal Sir,

Where does the roll cage meet the chassis? The roll cage is mounted on the body at various places which do not appear strong in case of a roll over.

Need some gyan on the strength of mounting areas Sir!
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Old 2nd July 2011, 17:56   #258
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Default Re: CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??

Fazal Sir,

Please see my classic roll cage. The A pillar went through the floor to the chassis without any hampering of leg position.
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Old 2nd July 2011, 18:11   #259
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Default Re: CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??

I think this is a fab design. According to me [IM(non experienced and)HO], i feel that a SWB does not even need the front two points and also i feel the same in the MM550. I know it is very safe and all that but again there is no place at all for the drivers foot for the accelerator and i fear what would happen if it got stuck in dire straits, in between the roll cage bind to the floor.

Still My CH has a humble 4 point RC and thats the way im gonna go initially at least with the MM550 too. Again i have the same explanation :stupid for the 4 point roll cage. In this i feel the Lwb Jeep body does not need it as there is ample support of the B pillar (unless you decide to do away with it) and also the top support frame. The roll over tends to be very slow (mostly) and that kind of support should do, in case of a mishap. Of course id like to be more safe and have a 6 pointer but then maybe that will have to wait till after the Examm and Akc. Lets see, will decide in a day or two after discussion with my fabricator.

I have seen Tejas's (his previous red one) classic's RC and the RC front two mount points were cleverly bent towards the floor and Ill have to see that aspect also but again i am not an advocate to attach the RC to the Chassis.

But Fazal bhai kudos to your design. I love it.

Last edited by V-16 : 2nd July 2011 at 18:12.
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Old 2nd July 2011, 19:25   #260
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Default Re: CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??

Vikram,

This roll cage and many others are still considered safe even if they are not attached to the chassis, in the sense they are better than no roll cage at all.

The point pressure on all four point or six points is enough to manage the roll over and if the roll cage is attached to the chassis, nothing like it.

Gogi bhai,

I too thought on the floor aspect for the front points, bending or not, it would be just too tight for comfort. A 540/ 550 has a wider tub and in them you can take it up to the floor.

Tejas,

Is it easy to sheer metal vertically as on my dash or make a hole in a flat horizontal sheet? I would like to know this answer for my learning, from all.


Now, in the case of my roll cage, I copied the DOG's design, because it was clever.

Notice the red line on top of the roll cage, it does not align with the windshield frame, but is about 3" lower than it, making this A pillar of the roll cage a secondary impact zone...after the windscreen frame.

The three yellow arrows indicate the highest and first impact zones of the A, B and C pillar of the RC/ windshield frame. Should there be a roll over, the impact would be highest on the B pillar as it is the highest and then transferred to others .

Notice the B pillar has a slant vertical support right under it, this slant angle acts as an opposing force to negate the pressure on the A pillar/ wind shield frame.

I was bad at physics and seems I am getting worse now.

Just pray Fazal does not roll over...on pillar A, B or C.

Your prayers are Pillars, I trust.

Regards,

CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??-img_0827.jpg

Last edited by fazalaliadil : 2nd July 2011 at 19:32.
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Old 2nd July 2011, 20:13   #261
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Default Re: CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??

LOL Fazalbhai, very well explained i must say. I thought about this design for my MM550 too and willbe meeting the fabricators tomorrow to discuss the final stages of my RC, whether 4 or 6 point. Im sold on the 4 point theory but many of mu friends do not think in the same direction. I feel offroading that we do is not so deep that we might get involved in a roll demanding that much protection, i may be wrong and am in no way undermining the safety aspect but then there is also the comfort of driving. As you said, a RC is better than no RC at all. Lets see what happens. Maybe i might add another two points on my Cj after seeing this design but thats for later.
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Old 3rd July 2011, 18:06   #262
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Default Re: CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??

IMHO RC which Fazal sir has done ( Me, svsantosh and Madkris all have simillar RCs), the weakest link is the body where they are welded to the base plate. But at the time of roll (we never want roll anytime isn’t it?) it will hold up and later it needs a body work which is any way required for an internal RC design.
Can we reinforce the dash with two L angles to make it stonger. Now posting a pic form the internet just to explain my idea and to know is it possible or not
Attached Images
 

Last edited by mohang_j : 3rd July 2011 at 18:11. Reason: edited the pic
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Old 3rd July 2011, 20:05   #263
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Default Re: CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??

Mohan,

By reinforcing the sides it will not help the dash area unless there is a horizontal member (below the windshield frame area) resting on the right and left vertical member as represented in your pic. But that too in no way will help for our kind of A pillar of the roll bar.

WE ARE DOOMED!

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Old 3rd July 2011, 21:37   #264
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Default Re: CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??

Fazal Sir,

Your explanation is correct - But the B pillar being 3 mm lower than the windscreen frame IMO is not great.

In case of a roll over, your highest point should be the B Pillar and not the other way around.

The A pillar / windscreen frame crumples very easily and should not be considered a point of strength unless fabricated to the chassis direct!!

@ Gogi - I dont know your terrain or the kind of OTR you guys do, but one can never predict that roll overs are gonna be slow!! - Slow or fast, the RC needs to protect the vehicle and the occupants, else its useless IMHO!
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Old 4th July 2011, 00:08   #265
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Default Re: CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??

Agree headers, i was just thinking aloud that we might not get into that situation but as you said safety is something that cannot be compromised. Will talk to my fabricator tomorrow re the brilliant option of the dash mounted front points. How practical they will be on a MM550, remains to be seen.
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Old 25th August 2011, 17:10   #266
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Default Re: CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??

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Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Agree headers, i was just thinking aloud that we might not get into that situation but as you said safety is something that cannot be compromised. Will talk to my fabricator tomorrow re the brilliant option of the dash mounted front points. How practical they will be on a MM550, remains to be seen.
hey fazal

where is the finished picture of your vehicle? eagerly waiting to see it.!!

regards
WC
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Old 25th August 2011, 19:11   #267
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Default Re: CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??

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where is the finished picture of your vehicle? eagerly waiting to see it.!!
there is separate thread for the finished product.

please see this link.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...cing-lynx.html (Introducing, The LYNX.)

rgds,
Nikhil
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