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Old 30th March 2010, 22:36   #16
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
While I would agree with you that many people restore these Jeeps and retain them as a collectors' item the truth really is that in its original form its an extremely capable offroader. There's not much more you can desire beyond the original config. I am yet to feel the need for lockers. Its articulation is amazing and in most situations its keeping its feet planted. Its simply brilliant offroad

My Jeep is now as stock as it ever was when it left the factory but you have to see where all it goes to realise these Jeeps in stock form are the ultimate offroad go carts - and at what price? My mind boggles that at the price I paid and even when I factor in what I spent on the car changing the mechanicals its unbelievable the amount of fun I'm having with this car.

Except for the fuel cost factor its the petrol engine that really suits these Jeeps. Mind you I do long distance driving in it too and I am pretty convinced petrol is the way to go for the CJ3B's. It rocks in that guise !! The Hurricane deserves a prime slot in the engine hall of fame. Its a masterpiece for the application it was intended.
DKG, a stock jeep is allways reliable and it is designed for all purpose. I allways prefer to keep it stock. There are only few who can really enjoy the luxury of what petrol engine offers. Many people compromise it with a diesel due to cost factor. Here i am not saying diesel is superior than petrol. if i do not care for running cost, i love to use the petrol for its refinement and power. And here the question is, I have an engine which is far better than DP4.9 and gearbox and a jeep which is already having diesel endorsement but it is a CJ3B. Do you think it will lose its off road characteristics with this configuration when compared to hurricane except for the NVH of petrol? The thread name says ''The DOG 2'' and that says what Fazal bhai intension is. If one wants to go with intention of building a vehicle like ''The DOG'', the base vehicle you would choose is CJ3B for its spec. Nothing can beat it.
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Old 30th March 2010, 23:30   #17
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Hi Fazal,

Although I would suggest any body restoring or rebuilding a 3B to stick to the original hurricane motor, as a lay man I would suggest you go in for the diesel motor for your project. The most obvious reason is that its a diesel powered Jeep as per the papers and secondly you would be building a one of a kind vehicle which will be as unique in its character and capabilities as the Man himself. So go ahead and keep us updated.....
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Old 30th March 2010, 23:57   #18
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Originally Posted by star_aqua View Post
DKG, a stock jeep is allways reliable and it is designed for all purpose. I allways prefer to keep it stock. There are only few who can really enjoy the luxury of what petrol engine offers. . If one wants to go with intention of building a vehicle like ''The DOG'', the base vehicle you would choose is CJ3B for its spec. Nothing can beat it.
star_aqua +1 to that.

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Originally Posted by diesel_maniac View Post
Hi Fazal,
Although I would suggest any body restoring or rebuilding a 3B to stick to the original hurricane motor, as a lay man I would suggest you go in for the diesel motor for your project. The most obvious reason is that its a diesel powered Jeep as per the papers and secondly you would be building a one of a kind vehicle which will be as unique in its character and capabilities as the Man himself. So go ahead and keep us updated.....
DKG, with all the respect to you and all the restoration specialists here. I think in the same line of star_aqua and diesel maniac.

As stated by Jasvinder, Fazal sir will be building a one of a kind of vehicle with this PSA XD2 Engine which I am sure is much more refined than our trusted XDP4.90 and XD3P engines since its coming out from newer generation car. ( I guess)

We have seen The DOG, now lets see The DOG 2 and explore its prons and cons.

Given a chance... someday I would also like to plonk the biggest Petrol and Diesel Engine available in India into SWB Jeep ie.CJ3B and test it.

A friend of mine recently swapped his 3.7L V6 engine on his brand new 2009 Jeep JK ( Wrangler unlimited) with a 7.1L V6 HEMI Engine which produces 500 bhp!!

Fazal Sir, please proceed and fill us with updates and pics.
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Old 31st March 2010, 08:26   #19
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Thank you all for your kind suggestions, really appreciate them.

A original CJ3B (like Deepak's) is a collectors item and a extremely efficient off-roader, in principle there is nothing one needs to do and deviate from the stock.

Agree with Deepak 100% about the legendary prowess of the Hurricane.
The CJ3B moves like a centipede with 4 heavy guy on board in jungles as I have personally experienced this numerous times. It is just amazing the power, power to weight ratio, transmission, articulation and the break over angle is second to none...I can just go on.

This is why I have chosen it as a base vehicle and I feel the XD2's 2300cc power would be complementing the size of this jeep better than a 540/550.

What I am trying is not to emulate the DOG in looks and heavy tyres, I will stick to NDMS. My objective is to make this a powerful, dependable and capable off-roader, a hybrid with a very refined diesel under its hood.

The XD2 that I have is to be experienced to believe what I am talking about, had it not been for this engine I would never have thought about a transplant at all.

A very original CJ3B...you will be seeing soon.


Wish me luck with this project and please be patient.

Regards,

Last edited by fazalaliadil : 31st March 2010 at 08:28.
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Old 31st March 2010, 11:34   #20
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Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Vinod,
Thanks. The present Hurricane is in good condition. I am seeking options from you all, undecided on the petrol or diesel though. The gearbox is a 5 speed too. RC endorsement is another unbalancing factor.
Regards,
Since you have made up your mind for XD2 engine, i wish you all the best for the project!!

How will you fit a 5 speed gearbox on a 3b? The rear prop shaft will be too small. Stick to a well serviced KMT90
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Old 31st March 2010, 13:20   #21
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Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Since you have made up your mind for XD2 engine, i wish you all the best for the project!!

How will you fit a 5 speed gearbox on a 3b? The rear prop shaft will be too small. Stick to a well serviced KMT90
Vinod,
Pardon me for the XD2, for your advice I will do an exclusive petrol version.
Though I have a spare BA10 I will not be able to fix it here due to the SWB and intend to stick to the KMT90.
Regards,
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Old 31st March 2010, 13:53   #22
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Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Vinod,
Pardon me for the XD2, for your advice ......
Though I have a spare BA10 I will not be able to fix it here due to the SWB and intend to stick to the KMT90.
Regards,
Fazal sir,
You must have taken a very well informed decision. I wish you luck with this super silent CJ3B Diesel project! Please churn out a master piece as you always do.
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Old 31st March 2010, 17:49   #23
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Fazalaliadil, I'm on the same path as you. We have the same issue.

I have the very same engine in my 1970 CJ-4 that has been fitted for more than 11 years now.

As far as the engine is concerned, I would describe it as bulletproof. Mine was imported from Germany with 48.000kms so now it has around 100.000kms. In off road terms and conditions it is a respectful number given the fact that it doesn't smoke or burn oil like many diesels do. In the past we didn't have any problems because it is properly maintained by changing the oil and filters regularly. If you do this (and I believe you do) you shouldn't be worried.

The more interesting part is mating the engine to the transmission. This is what gives a big headache. I have mated it to the original T-90 with a connector plate. It has some vibration which cannot be avoided but the real problem is the top speed. 3 speed for a lower RPM diesel are just not enough.

-I think that the best option is to go with the KMT-90 as it would fit this engine perfectly. Also the CJ3B is relatively light and would make a proper power plant and in the same time be cost effective.
As my T-90 is dead (Best alternative to the T-90 tranny?), I have already arranged to get a KMT-90 from Germany and I'm expecting to get it by next week. Follow the link for more info about this topic.


Here is some info about the modifications which are needed to fit the engine on the chassis is mate it to the transmission. Some of the stuff we have done, and some would need completing in order to fit the KMT-90 on my Mahindra properly.

1. The oil sump is on the way of the front prop shaft. That will need cutting and reducing the oil quantity by 300-400 grams. This is not a problem and would not harm the engine.

2. You will need to weld plates on the chassis for the engine to be bolted. Stick with the original engine holders. If you want, I can take photos of how mine are welded and placed.

3. The engine is missing the choke cable which runs from the fuel pump to the engine head.

4. As SpikeArrestor suggested, you would probably need to push the center crossmember back in order to accomodate the slightly longer assembly.

4a. This would cause lengthening or shortening of the prop shafts.

5. I still don't know for sure if the handbrake assy from the T-90 would work with the KMT-90. Rest a savoir

6. Make sure that you use the bell housing from the KMT-90. The original one is too tight for the clutch pressure plate.
(I had the same pressure plate, brand new fitted to the engine when it left Germany. I gave it away because I didn't think it would need us. Now I'll see if my friend would return me one as he owes it me).

7. You can use the original mercury (Hg) meter, just hook it up on the original place on the engine.

8. There is lot of space under the hood so height is not an issue.

I believe that you're familiar with most of the stuff because I've seen your projects and I'm always astonished by the level of finish.

This is my rig. Excuse the dirt, it has never been washed. Seriously.

If you need more info I'd be glad to help
Attached Thumbnails
CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??-slika131.jpg  

CJ3B, 'The Dog 2' or 'The Pup': Should I ??-slika132.jpg  


Last edited by JeepMkd : 31st March 2010 at 17:53.
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Old 31st March 2010, 18:02   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepMkd View Post
Fazalaliadil, I'm on the same path as you. We have the same issue.

I have the very same engine in my 1970 CJ-4 that has been fitted for more than 11 years now.



The more interesting part is mating the engine to the transmission. This is what gives a big headache. I have mated it to the original T-90 with a connector plate. It has some vibration which cannot be avoided but the real problem is the top speed. 3 speed for a lower RPM diesel are just not enough.
Jeepmkd,

I thought you were using some Ford diesel engine, never knew you had Peugeot XD2 engine.

Further please dont be under impression that your top speed will increase once you change to KMT 90. The top gear ratios are same for KMT 90 and t-90 i.e 1:1

As Xd2 belongs to the same family of XDP4.90 and XD3p it must be rev friendly and may peak at about 4000 to 4500 rpm which is very good for a diesel. The reason for low top speed of yours is lower rear diff ratio. Since your jeep originally was a petrol it must have had 5.38 ratio. Please change it to 4.88 once you get your hands on KMT 90 4 speed gear box. Your top speed will improve and so will your crawl ratio.

XDp 4.90 with 4.88 rear axle ratio and 28 inch tires must be able to achieve about 90- 95 kmph top speed. XD2 is more powerful and hence top speed could be higher.

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 31st March 2010 at 18:05.
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Old 31st March 2010, 18:06   #25
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Vinod, the engine is a Ford Sierra one.

Here's from the first post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
To make it an original like the above I will need to spend a lot lot.
I have this super smooth Peugeot 2300cc diesel which came off a Ford Sierra from the factory.
We have the same engine

The top speed is fine, I only put it in the calculations as a side effect, but I guess I'm wrong. What I didn't say is that the engine at top speed struggles and it's killing it. It's very loud and the 4 speeds would "spread the load better". My uncle has a 1996 Mahindra KZ4x4 so I know this from experience. In places where I use first and drive very slow I can use second without revving the engine as much as I do now. If I throw it in second now it just stalls.
Also greater top speed would need an upgrade to the brakes, so I'm fine with the 60km/h

We'll comment about mine when the time comes, I don't want to hijack this thread.

Last edited by JeepMkd : 31st March 2010 at 18:13.
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Old 31st March 2010, 19:37   #26
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Originally Posted by JeepMkd View Post
Vinod, the engine is a Ford Sierra one.
We have the same engine

We'll comment about mine when the time comes, I don't want to hijack this thread.
JeepMkd,
I actually want the thread to be high jacked! That is how help will reach me, just the coincidence of our engines has given me comfort that there is help from someone who has done it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Jeepmkd,
I thought you were using some Ford diesel engine, never knew you had Peugeot XD2 engine.

Since your jeep originally was a petrol it must have had 5.38 ratio. Please change it to 4.88 once you get your hands on KMT 90 4 speed gear box. Your top speed will improve and so will your crawl ratio.

XDp 4.90 with 4.88 rear axle ratio and 28 inch tires must be able to achieve about 90- 95 kmph top speed. XD2 is more powerful and hence top speed could be higher.
Vinod,
As a matter of fact this CJ too has a 4 speed which came off a 540,
the shafts seem to be altered to suit the length of the gearbox, the rear shaft is just 12"+ and the problem is the rear axle gear ratio is original and needs to be changed to 4.88 (like you suggested) due to which I can feel the vehicle braking heavily when I release the foot from the accelerator
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepMkd View Post

I have the very same engine

-I think that the best option is to go with the KMT-90 as it would fit this engine perfectly. Also the CJ3B is relatively light and would make a proper power plant and in the same time be cost effective.
As my T-90 is dead (Best alternative to the T-90 tranny?), I have already arranged to get a KMT-90 from Germany and I'm expecting to get it by next week.

1. The oil sump is on the way of the front prop shaft.

2. You will need to weld plates on the chassis for the engine to be bolted. Stick with the original engine holders. If you want, I can take photos of how mine are welded and placed.

3. The engine is missing the choke cable which runs from the fuel pump to the engine head.

4. As SpikeArrestor suggested, you would probably need to push the center crossmember back in order to accomodate the slightly longer assembly.

4a. This would cause lengthening or shortening of the prop shafts.

7. You can use the original mercury (Hg) meter, just hook it up on the original place on the engine.

If you need more info I'd be glad to help
JeepMkd, again.

Thank god you have the very same engine.

KMT 90 (MM540) is what I have fitted as of now mated with a Hurricane. This is what I had envisaged that the lighter CJ would sing duets with the refined XD2+KMT 90.

Why are you importing KMT 90 from Germany?

I suppose the right end of the sump would be in the way of the front PP?

It would be helpful if you can add pics. of the plates which accommodate the original factory engine mounts.

The missing choke cable, alternatives please.

I will check and see if the cross member needs to be pushed back , but it will definitely hurt the break over angle.

Now you stumped me with the Mercury HG meter thing. I don't knows its original place or use.

Of course I will need more info and need your help.

Thanks for this too, Sincerely.

Regards,
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Old 31st March 2010, 19:59   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
XDp 4.90 with 4.88 rear axle ratio and 28 inch tires must be able to achieve about 90- 95 kmph top speed. XD2 is more powerful and hence top speed could be higher.
Its not the power of the engine but the revvability that defines the top speed all other things being equal

Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
It would be helpful if you can add pics. of the plates which accommodate the original factory engine mounts.
Yeah, Engine mounting points play a very very important role in the NVH and refinement of the project!!

Please post pics sirs!
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Old 31st March 2010, 21:58   #28
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i see no reason why you shouldnt be going ahead with this project 'Hybrid Dog2' with a smaller vehicle (CJ3B) and a bigger engine(XD2)!

since you are not 'restoring' the CJ3B to its original stock status, then you have all the rights to do the necessary upgrades to make it a capable offroad 4WD vehicle, which will perform as per your needs.

regarding the gear box, do you really need a 5 speed box on this project?

and yes, you will have plenty of experience here on the forum to help you out with your project on a regular basis.
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Old 1st April 2010, 01:11   #29
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Originally Posted by JeepMkd View Post

We have the same engine
This is indeed a strange coincidence.. We thought Fazal sir is the first one in this forum to use the XD2 Engine.. and there comes my dear friend Mite aka JeepMkd all the way from Macedonia telling its the same Ford Engine which he is using on his CJ4 for last 11 years.
Really interesting to see this twist in the story

Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
JeepMkd
Thank god you have the very same engine.
Why are you importing KMT 90 from Germany?
Now you stumped me with the Mercury HG meter thing. I don't knows its original place or use.
Fazal Sir, With JeepMkd's 11 years of XD2 experience , I guess your "THE DOG 2" project has become piece of cake for you now.

Jeep Mkd had to source a KMT90 GB from Germany bcos his is the only or one of the few Mahindra Jeeps in his entire country.
Me too have the same question!! Whats mercury meter? Sorry
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Old 1st April 2010, 10:31   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
regarding the gear box, do you really need a 5 speed box on this project?
Parm,
Though I have a BA 10 with me, I am afraid I will not be able to use it as it will need the cross member to be pushed all the way to the rear end due to the length of the gearbox and sacrifice the very important break over angle on this SWB. As it is the rear shaft is 12" maybe due to the existing KMT 90, if I put in the BA 10 the rear shaft maybe just 2" long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepCaptain View Post
Really interesting to see this twist in the story

Fazal Sir, With JeepMkd's 11 years of XD2 experience , I guess your "THE DOG 2" project has become piece of cake for you now.
Jeep Captain,
Yes, when this projected is completed my CJ will have a long lost twin who got lost 11 years ago in a mela abroad.
Definitely, his experiences will be helpful and other members inputs too.

Regards,
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