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Old 7th April 2010, 23:01   #76
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Mr Dhabhar,

Had read an article on the net in which a Scorpio had broken down and you had stopped to assist the family.

Hats off to you sir ! you deserve every ounce of the love and respect that this forum showers on you.

Salman
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Old 7th April 2010, 23:59   #77
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Behram,

It is really nice to see that you and your team are taking all this effort to connect with your customer. Even though I work for a competitor I truly commend your efforts.

I know the effort it takes to make a vehicle confirm to stricter regulations especially emission norms, but that is the good problem. The bigger task is to get the organization to notice the enthusiast community and tailor products for them even though they might be less than 1% of the market.

What you and your company is doing will benefit the whole industry and that is invaluable.
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Old 8th April 2010, 00:00   #78
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - thank you very much for all your fantastic comments. I kept quiet for 7 days as I was quietly reading everything. Now I need to say some things. Here they are.

A small background to my new assignment - first of all, let me state that I am very proud to work for M&M. It is a great place to work. "Auto Passion" in employees is an officially recognized capability. We work, but we also enjoy. We have an Auto Passion Blog. We have an internal Auto Passion Quiz. We have a stalwart amongst us. We call him "Doc". Dr.Krishnamurthy Iyer in his inimitable "shayarana" style comperes the quiz show. The finals are also compered by "Sid" (Siddharth Vinayak Patankar). This show was aired on TV. The winning team got a free Xylo each. We have "Accelerator Awards" given out to employees who have contrbuted notably towards introducing new ideas, new products etc. Why, for a month, I learnt Jazz and Salsa dancing alongside 340 newly joined trainees (we danced to the song "tu hi meri soniye" - wow!). I am supposed to be a GM in the company, so what? Which other company will allow me to do all this? Which other company has the GM's cabin door always open for any engineer to walk in with his ideas? This is the way we are. This helps us to build an unshakeable bond with the company. In my case, recognizing my almost addictive "Actionable Auto Passion" for "Anything 4 Wheel Drive", the management has given me this job. Whew! Now you know!

Now, what we in my group can do and what we cannot do - We can do so many things. Your wish list echoes my sentiments completely. However, let me explain. We must respect the law of the land where we sell our vehicles. We in India follow the European norms (EEC). Let's take the best example.

What does this mean to the re-birth of the good old CL340? - I want the CL340 in the showrooms as badly as you do, but what does it mean to us today? We must meet "BS4". This means that the vehicle must meet the BS4 emission norms in the category in which you want to buy it, which is with the private registration or the white number plate. Technically, this is the category where the emission norms are the most stringent. This means that we must completely re-engineer the vehicle, not just with a compliant engine but with a suitable driveline as well, which will not only meet the test during initial homologation (it is called "type approval") but it will also meet the test when the car is actually in mass production (it is called COP or "conformity of production"). Now, do you understand what it will take if I have to get the CL340 into the showrooms once again? The XDP4.90 & XD3P engines are history. They do not meet BS4. It is as simple as that.

For undertaking such assignments, "auto passion" is required. We undertake just such work. We pre-empt all rational timelines. We set impossible targets and we meet them. Thar is the result of just such a capability, delivered in record time and now successfully sold overseas. Very soon it will be sold from showrooms across India, and that's a promise.

Now with all this information, please give us your comments, then the information in this thread will be really invaluable.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear Behram Sir, I read your quote a couple of times and I feel you've asked questions on what it would take for the CL340 to return and also provided the answers to these questions.

I understand that M&M, you and your team have the auto passion of taking up challenging assignments and working towards meeting challenging goals.

The Thar is sure a great product and we all respect and understand that its the result of "Auto Passion"

All of us love the great old CL340 and crave for it and with the auto passion you, your team and M&M share, there should be no reason to stop you and your team working against the challenges, posed by the law EEC, in springing back the little dinosaur to where it rightfully belongs, the roads (I mean offroads).

It may sound greatly challenging to rework and reengineer the vehicle with an appropriate driveline and an engine, however given that the mini SUV market in India is on the verge of growth and preference, I'm sure there would be only applause over the return of the CL340.

Please go on take the plunge, 'Make it happen'!
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Old 8th April 2010, 00:42   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - thank you very much for all your fantastic comments. I kept quiet for 7 days as I was quietly reading everything.
................
................
Now with all this information, please give us your comments, then the information in this thread will be really invaluable.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Thanks for clarifying, I was wondering if this thread was an april fools joke, not hearing from you for so long.

But, could we have any info on the mini SUV? I am not a die-hard offroader fan at all, hence my preference towards the "less capable beast".

There is this saying: "aim for the stars, so that you can reach the tree top".
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Old 8th April 2010, 01:12   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Now, what we in my group can do and what we cannot do - We can do so many things. Your wish list echoes my sentiments completely. However, let me explain. We must respect the law of the land where we sell our vehicles. We in India follow the European norms (EEC). Let's take the best example.

What does this mean to the re-birth of the good old CL340? - I want the CL340 in the showrooms as badly as you do, but what does it mean to us today? We must meet "BS4". This means that the vehicle must meet the BS4 emission norms in the category in which you want to buy it, which is with the private registration or the white number plate. Technically, this is the category where the emission norms are the most stringent. This means that we must completely re-engineer the vehicle, not just with a compliant engine but with a suitable driveline as well, which will not only meet the test during initial homologation (it is called "type approval") but it will also meet the test when the car is actually in mass production (it is called COP or "conformity of production"). Now, do you understand what it will take if I have to get the CL340 into the showrooms once again? The XDP4.90 & XD3P engines are history. They do not meet BS4. It is as simple as that.

Now with all this information, please give us your comments, then the information in this thread will be really invaluable.
Mr. BD, meeting BS4 is a challenge as i work for EU5/EPA10 requirements i can understand. Forget about sentiments of CL340. Cant we have a vehicle which need not look like CL340 but has the characteristics of it?? Ofcourse re-engineering will affect the re-usability of the existing components. But ONE vehicle which meets all the requirements. Cant we have such vehicle? And you know the vehicle speed(not torque) can always be limited to a safer margin if it cannot handle the speeds of 100+ without IFS on our indian roads. people can live with it.

It is difficult for M&M but not impossible.

Last edited by star_aqua : 8th April 2010 at 01:17.
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Old 8th April 2010, 10:26   #81
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Dear Mr. Dhabhar lets work toward the creation of a offroad vehicle that will be a big seller worldwide

To create such a vehicle lets look at sales of all kinds of vehicles across the planet catering to the utility/offroad/leisure segment.

How many Wranglers are sold annually. How many Samurai are sold etc.

Then we work back to what are the core values of these products. The kind of basic packaging required.

Then M&M under your guidance develops a vehicle which costs probably half what the nearest competitor costs.

You will have a winner

Last edited by DKG : 8th April 2010 at 10:39.
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Old 8th April 2010, 11:16   #82
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Dear Db sir,

I am not an off roader nor have even an IOTA of knowledge about it. I can't even dream of putting my Bolero thru what the hardcore guys do with their jeeps. My idea of fun is long drives, going for white water rafting, visiting Jim Corbett Park or someday driving to Leh etc. My ole Bolero has done everything with elan so far in 2wd. Over the seven years I have learnt one thing u make a great vehicle, though the dealers at time let the company vision down. I am sure that you can do whatever you put your mind to. I will prolly hit the new Bolero Storm if I can get a 4 wd just to know that I can get out of mud while going fishing. Or else it will be a 4wd scorpio. The only thing that I would hate is if with so much passion you drop the ball, just when you could create history. May the force be with you.

Chaun fa
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Old 8th April 2010, 13:38   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post

Now with all this information, please give us your comments, then the information in this thread will be really invaluable.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Behram you ought to try your luck at PR, seems like a better release than your PR guys.

Last edited by Eddy : 8th April 2010 at 15:47. Reason: Please do not quote an entire long post. Hampers readability. Thanks
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Old 8th April 2010, 20:51   #84
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Dear Behram Sir, it is indeed a joyful news that the mighty CL 340 will be back in the showrooms. And it is joyful to imagine the tough off-rioading machine with oodles of character with its muscles flexed up climbing a rocky hill where none of the so called plastic clad SUVs won't even dare to peep! This will surely be a breakthrough in the Indian offroading vehicles scenerio since a true blue Jeep lover is at it's head to make things happen.
Pleeeeze launch the Thar with a version having powersteering, hardtop and A/C and I promise you that I will buy it even if I have to steal for that!

Last edited by Ashley Nair : 8th April 2010 at 20:52.
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Old 8th April 2010, 21:10   #85
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Originally Posted by Ashley Nair View Post
Dear Behram Sir, it is indeed a joyful news that the mighty CL 340 will be back in the showrooms. And it is joyful to imagine the tough off-rioading machine with oodles of character with its muscles flexed up climbing a rocky hill where none of the so called plastic clad SUVs won't even dare to peep! This will surely be a breakthrough in the Indian offroading vehicles scenerio since a true blue Jeep lover is at it's head to make things happen.
Where is it mentioned CL340 will be back?? Nope it will not be available as Mr. BD has clearly stated what they can do and what they cannot do. CL340 is under 'Not Possible' list.
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Old 8th April 2010, 23:34   #86
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Originally Posted by star_aqua View Post
Mr. BD, meeting BS4 is a challenge as i work for EU5/EPA10 requirements i can understand. Forget about sentiments of CL340. Cant we have a vehicle which need not look like CL340 but has the characteristics of it?? Ofcourse re-engineering will affect the re-usability of the existing components. But ONE vehicle which meets all the requirements. Cant we have such vehicle? And you know the vehicle speed(not torque) can always be limited to a safer margin if it cannot handle the speeds of 100+ without IFS on our indian roads. people can live with it.

It is difficult for M&M but not impossible.
Star your understanding seems more logical than mine. A similar vehicle with a SWB inheriting similar charachteristics like that of the CL340, however designed such that it can be pitched against the mini SUV's like the Suzuki Jimny, mini Pajero, Toyota RAV4 and available in the ST and HT variants would be practical interms of designing and meeting the BS4 requirements.

The decision is upto M&M, however I'd prefer the return of the CL340 to keep alive the cult image of M&M.

If theres a will then there definitely is a way? Thomas Edisson invented the bulb, when there wasn't one, we are talking about re-engineering a product to meet certain legal requirements, which is a lot more easier, for sure!

Go on 'Be a Tiger' Build the CL340.

Search 'New Suzuki Jimny Concept' on google and you can see what re-engineering a vehicle to meet the new Laws can do - make it meaner and futuristic

Last edited by yikes6633 : 8th April 2010 at 23:41. Reason: Couldn't paste the linl/URL of the new Suzuki Jimny
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Old 9th April 2010, 21:30   #87
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hi, i was reading all your suggestions and it struck to me that why cant we study the positive points of all available suv/muv and try to indianise it to bypass the patent law and use it cost effectively in our indian vehicles?
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Old 9th April 2010, 23:32   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by star_aqua View Post
Where is it mentioned CL340 will be back?? Nope it will not be available as Mr. BD has clearly stated what they can do and what they cannot do. CL340 is under 'Not Possible' list.
Where is it mentioned CL 340 will NOT be back? What Behram Sir has stated is only that it will require a contemporary engine meeting emission norms and modern gearbox. Ploease note that the express motive of COE is to bring back cult vehicles. In other words, there is every hint in his post that the "new" CL340 will be like the Thar, which is the true successor of MM540
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Old 10th April 2010, 10:11   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Now, what we in my group can do and what we cannot do - We can do so many things. Your wish list echoes my sentiments completely. However, let me explain. We must respect the law of the land where we sell our vehicles. We in India follow the European norms (EEC). Let's take the best example.
Hello DB Sir,

DO the EEC Norms require

1) IFS & Rack & Pinion
2) No Proper Roll-Cage
3) SFRA

What is the best example you have taken from them, please elaborate with example.

Why does not the Thar Qualify as a Regular 4WD in Europe, and is FARM ONLY.

And how come it is road legal in INDIA?

The THAR prototype were ready much before the wish list thread and the Ideal Indian Off-Roader thread, and the Wish List Thread was to mislead people into believing/accepting the Thar as the Modern 4WD i.e replacement for a MM550XD NGCS.

Arka

PS - All the Salsa & Jazz dancing lessons have made you the "Artful Dodger"
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Old 13th April 2010, 16:33   #90
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Dear Beharm Sir,given the participation in the Alibag OTR and all that you've seen and undertsand of the Bangalore OTR event. I request you to please design a new SWB (incase you cannot rebuild/reengineer the CL340). It should have all the works of a perfect offroader. You can consider the wishlist that we had for the Thar and also now that you have a good understanding of the OTR's and the trails you can sure plan and build the perfect 4X4 Monster
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