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Old 13th April 2010, 16:46   #91
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Behram,

Instead of re-creating the same old Jeeps, it is better to look at the future.

Take the Suzuki Jimny DDiS as the target. It has all that hardcore offroad guy needs + modern safety gear + comfort convenience for family duties.

Jimny:Specifications | Global Suzuki

Just build a Suzuki Jimny DDiS beater! Our requirements list can't get simpler than that.
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Old 13th April 2010, 18:10   #92
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Behram,

Instead of re-creating the same old Jeeps, it is better to look at the future.

Take the Suzuki Jimny DDiS as the target. It has all that hardcore offroad guy needs + modern safety gear + comfort convenience for family duties.

Jimny:Specifications | Global Suzuki

Just build a Suzuki Jimny DDiS beater! Our requirements list can't get simpler than that.
I think this is a market sweeper. I'm game for the Jimny Beater
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Old 15th April 2010, 20:42   #93
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Dear Behram Sir, any thoughts or feelings that you've had given the inputs and comments from us. Are we going to build from scratch a SWB 4WD or are we going to re-engineer and re-build the good old CL340 or do we move on from the SWB to something, that would cater to the mass market.

Yikes!
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Old 17th April 2010, 10:08   #94
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
And by the way, the Thar is well on its way to you, in 4 wheel drive as well as in 2 wheel drive configurations..
Sir, Firstly congrats, I just saw this thread.

Secondly, Please work out a market positioning of products and educate your dealers / sales people involved.

Honestly, they dont know / dont care to know much about your products be it a Scorpio 4x4 or a Bolero Storm or a Bolero Camper 4x4.

And please have product positioning as well. I wonder why the hell THAR is released in 2WD configuration. Is it a lifestyle vehicle then?

Or, are you giving **** in the name of giving choice to public?
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Old 17th April 2010, 14:23   #95
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Behram,

Instead of re-creating the same old Jeeps, it is better to look at the future.

Take the Suzuki Jimny DDiS as the target. It has all that hardcore offroad guy needs + modern safety gear + comfort convenience for family duties.

Jimny:Specifications | Global Suzuki

Just build a Suzuki Jimny DDiS beater! Our requirements list can't get simpler than that.
Very well chosen vehicle A Jimny kind with the comforts and Offroad capabalities will be the best buy for many of us..
Prithvi
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Old 17th April 2010, 14:47   #96
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Dear Mr. Dhabhar lets work toward the creation of a offroad vehicle that will be a big seller worldwide

To create such a vehicle lets look at sales of all kinds of vehicles across the planet catering to the utility/offroad/leisure segment.

How many Wranglers are sold annually. How many Samurai are sold etc.

Then we work back to what are the core values of these products. The kind of basic packaging required.

Then M&M under your guidance develops a vehicle which costs probably half what the nearest competitor costs.

You will have a winner
To follow the market or lead the market, that is the question. I am reminded of the old American adage, "A camel is a horse designed by a committee."

Core values of a kind have been expressed eloquently, and sometimes belligerently, right here on this site. B.D. knows very well what they are. I personally think that the things that make a good generalist off-roader, the things that are marketable and the things that are necessary for BSIV are not mutually exclussive. I wait and watch.
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Old 26th April 2010, 22:17   #97
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10 days and no post on this thread!

come on guys DB needs inputs to make the new dept of MM work on making better things for us.
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Old 27th April 2010, 01:48   #98
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Can I butt in? I usually Dont, But nonetheless.

We used to have a 340 when I was 7. MH 01 P 8300. It was the second most memorable car that I have ever had. The First being MMY43 (thus cyrus43). @Dad...Get 8300 back. Please!
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Old 27th April 2010, 17:50   #99
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Dear Mr Behram
As per Samurai's suggestion you must try and use your influence to make people at M&M move forward.
Endless rehashing of old wine can only be exploited in an oligopoly like India where the buyer has NO choice. M&M seems to be full of guys who are obsessed with the past.
As an engineer it must be embarassing to have to deal 70 year old stuff (CJ) that you have to keep reinventing. How do you stay motivated? The MM 540 dies must have paid for themselves 100 times already.
It is good to have an enthusiast like you in our midst, and please do not take this post the wrong way. No disrespect is intended.
Regards
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Old 27th April 2010, 20:11   #100
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5. Aluminium bodied CJ3B with aluminium alloy version of the Hurricane engine, fuel injected, disc brakes, solid axle front and back with coil suspension, roll bar, four point seatbelt harness, front and back mechanical diff lockers
DKG, Are you suggesting a 300 BHP, 400 NM, i4/v8 with 33" tires, SA with Coil springs, 4 pt. seatbelt, F & R full Diff locks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Many are waiting for two kinds of vehicle- One a Mini SUV with 4wd with Jiminy capabilities and vitaras comfort and second a medium sized SUV which can take on odd's just like LC 70 and defenders in a much smaller package (read Bolero)
  • Address the above two segments sincerely and you have a chart buster in your hand!
I think market abroad has moved from true SUV's to cross utility vehicles. But in India market is just moving from MUV's to affordable and capable SUV's. Here is where one should cash upon!!


Hey VN, M&M cant do a Jimny as their powertrains are not small. BUT what they can do is to educate their dealers as well as improve the quality niggles from their vehicles.

Quote:
A mini SUV (basically a car with raised ground clearance with 4wd) is welcome!
You mean a Mahindra Fusion [a l a the Ford Fusion with 200mm GC]



Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Currently many dealers discourage customers from buying a 4x4 Scorpio.
Not only 4x4 scorpio, but even a Storm fyi

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
I don't think it is ever possible to do that my friend!!
Thats a very positive attitude my friend!

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Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
They can surely revive CJ 340 once they finalize power train for their up coming mini SUV. Smaller engine and GB is the only way to bring back CJ 340 i believe.
M&M have power trains smaller than 1 litre VN. But to build a capable 4x4, it has to undergo a lot of endurance testing.

The GB especially 4WD will be more complicated than the engine block!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
This means that the vehicle must meet the BS4 emission norms in the category in which you want to buy it, which is with the private registration or the white number plate. Technically, this is the category where the emission norms are the most stringent. This means that we must completely re-engineer the vehicle, not just with a compliant engine but with a suitable driveline as well, which will not only meet the test during initial homologation (it is called "type approval") but it will also meet the test when the car is actually in mass production (it is called COP or "conformity of production"). Now, do you understand what it will take if I have to get the CL340 into the showrooms once again? ...


...We set impossible targets and we meet them. Thar is the result of just such a capability, delivered in record time
I can see the "bad" GM, but nevertheless, its great if you guys can work out a SWB vehicle with "Jeep" character!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
The THAR prototype were ready much before the wish list thread and the Ideal Indian Off-Roader thread, and the Wish List Thread was to mislead people into believing/accepting the Thar as the Modern 4WD i.e replacement for a MM550XD NGCS.
How do you say that my friend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Just build a Suzuki Jimny DDiS beater! Our requirements list can't get simpler than that.
LOL, you cant beat a Jimny Sharat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMT View Post
Endless rehashing of old wine can only be exploited in an oligopoly like India where the buyer has NO choice. M&M seems to be full of guys who are obsessed with the past.
As an engineer it must be embarassing to have to deal 70 year old stuff (CJ) that you have to keep reinventing. How do you stay motivated? The MM 540 dies must have paid for themselves 100 times already.
It is good to have an enthusiast like you in our midst,
A +10 to that.
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Old 27th April 2010, 20:39   #101
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
Hey VN, M&M cant do a Jimny as their powertrains are not small.
Headers, What if there are options?

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Old 27th April 2010, 21:05   #102
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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Headers, What if there are options?

Spike
What if Maruti drops a bombshell? There's an option for you.

Last edited by DirtyDan : 27th April 2010 at 21:22.
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Old 27th April 2010, 21:26   #103
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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Headers, What if there are options?

Spike
I'll be glad that finally you've [M&M] woken up finally. I know that there are engine options but as i had said earlier, an engine alone does not make a reliable bs4 4Wd vehicle!!
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Old 27th April 2010, 23:50   #104
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DKG, Are you suggesting a 300 BHP, 400 NM, i4/v8 with 33" tires, SA with Coil springs, 4 pt. seatbelt, F & R full Diff locks?
Heck why not boss !!! Now we are talking !! After all this is about a centre of excellence not some dept dusting oldies off shelves and bottling them with new labels.

Imagine if India delivers such a vehicle and at a low cost. It would turn the 4x4 world on its head !!
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Old 28th April 2010, 00:16   #105
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Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post one-liners that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the overall quality of this forum.

Please read our rules before proceeding any further.

Last edited by GTO : 28th April 2010 at 10:26.
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