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Old 14th May 2010, 12:25   #136
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Yaen da machan? (Why my brother in law?) Are you:

1. Going to purchase 500 THAR's for your employees and are thus keen to know how long this product will survive in the market with proper M&M support (thus it needs to be a volume player)

2. Do you have any equity stake in M&M and believe that THAR is going to propel M&M to the league of Rolls Royce and Mclaren in the Offroad circuit?

3. Were you secretly involved in the original gameplan of THAR but was unceremoniously kicked out for raising objections about using IFS? But you still have an emotional attachment to the vehicle and want to see it flying off the shelves (and thereafter off the road)?

4. Are you secretly building some "better than OEM" spares for the THAR and so want the THAR to do well, get banged up, and then set your sales chart on fire?

5. You are a cheapskate like me and will not pay a naya paisa over 5 Lakhs ON THE ROAD including chrome fittings and 10 year extended warranty on everything including the tyres.

Look forward to seeing you again in namma ooru to discuss further.
Lol.. some how i feel when every one here says "ok i am ready to buy THAR even if it is 10lkhs", then the release date will be announced very soon.

so anyhow it is now classified as "Life Style vehicle" and it will be like another swift in town. Cops will now start stopping our 540s too and we may have to end up in convincing him "Saar we are not rich kids saar, this is woriginal JEEP"
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Old 14th May 2010, 12:37   #137
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...what about a 2wd....with a/c, hardtop. That should appeal to many more people.
To my mind, the exclusivity of the Thar brand would be lost if there is a 2wd version made available - in which case I suppose 90%+ of owners would opt for 2wd (as in the case of the Scorpio). It would be like having a 2wd Gypsy, or even (perish the thought), a 2wd LR/LC.

Thar = 4wd = go anywhere. In supreme comfort. That's the only association that should be there. Nothing else.
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Old 14th May 2010, 12:47   #138
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Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
This is exactly I am looking for. A compact 4 x 4 for city driving and occasional long trips (700 kms at a stretch) including very bad roads, with a lockable cabin, A/c, PS, two rows of front facing seats. If it is available, I am in for a game, I'll chuck my Bolero.
my exact words brother.
& price should be within 6-7 lack range.
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Old 14th May 2010, 12:49   #139
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@ Fazal & DKG: This is as close a driving impression as I am likely to get without actually getting behind the wheel. Enjoyed the read.

Here I'd like to put forward a few comments regarding how I see the Thar.
  1. My present 4wd is not meant for pure off-roading fun as in an OTR; it's there to act as a vehicle to take my family and me off the beaten track, esp. in the mountains, in reasonable comfort and safety. My previous sedan did not take me places that I wanted to go, hence the current choice;
  2. However, 80% of my city driving is solo, and I would much prefer a smaller 4wd like the Thar to drive in, rather than a Scorpio;
  3. I wouldn't go to work in a non-AC soft-top - not in the Delhi summer, not in the chilly winter - and neither would my family ever let me consider buying a soft-top car without aircon ;
  4. There often are times when I need to go off the highway to squeeze past a traffic jam, and 4wd lets me do it without breaking into a sweat. The Scorp lets me do it, so will the Thar, in even better fashion;
  5. I wouldn't mind the Thar looking like the 540 - what matters is having basic features like AC, ABS, airbags - and a hardtop that I would prefer to be removable;
  6. Someone like me would be happier having a smaller vehicle than the Scorpio 4wd with the same competence, since there's no parking space in front of my house. Sell it to me for 10% less than a Scorpio VLX 4wd, with ALL the bells and whistles of the Scorpio included, and I could be a buyer.


The Scorpio 4wd IMO is as good a family off-roader as any, at that price point. The Safari wouldn't have fitted into the space in front of my house, and the Gypsy has all the features that I would NOT want in my car - no PS, no AC, no ABS - and above all, no diesel. Scorpio does my job admirably, except the times I find it's a little too big. Hence the Thar.


THIS family wants go-anywhere ability, forward-facing rear seat and easy parking ability along with the 5 points you noted above!
@adc: You'll agree, I'm sure.

Absolutely the best summation of the wants of a SUV owner. All the points are exactly same as what I felt driving my Safari. Only I couldn't compile it so comprehensively!

There is just another thing that remains - LOOKs!
The classic has been a looker, and I feel somewhat strongly about the "has been". (forgive me please!)
But this one, the Thar, sports largely the same front as the Mahindra Max Pick Up and the behind same as all earlier behinds.
If it could look anything like the new gen jeeps like cherokee or rubicon (I think these are new gen, not very sure), It will absolutely fly off the selves. The old school looks, although charming to a comitted minority, fails to appeal to us (who want a all rounder for the fun - looks - comfort), the real majority.
I am quite hopeful that Mahindra will release a face-lift if this one does well. With modern looks and all the features listed by SS-Traveller, this will fully exploit the segment opened by Premeir mini SUV (I already forgot its name).


However, engine-transmission-performance wise, all the reviews, especially from this one from DKG quite conclusively proves that it's up to the task for almost everyone - on and off the road. And, for anyone looking for more juice - there's all the mods available to them. I mean if someone can convert a tub of rust from before the histroy books to a capable all conquering off roader, what's stopping him to mod this one to a helicopter?

It's kind of funny and disgusting to see people jump upon any thread that mentions or praises the Thar. This forum has already given its mandate on what it wants - a practical all round vehicle which can be driven to all rounds or a theoretical flying horse good for the back yard to mechanic trip.

Plus, this forum has stated several times that its the skill of the driver which sees him through the terrain and not the capability of the vehicle alone.
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Old 14th May 2010, 12:54   #140
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so anyhow it is now classified as "Life Style vehicle" and it will be like another swift in town. Cops will now start stopping our 540s too and we may have to end up in convincing him "Saar we are not rich kids saar, this is woriginal JEEP"
Lol I think this takes the cake on the never ending discussions about the Thar's positioning!

With the interest shown on the Thar threads, I think we can organize T-bhp meets at the Thar launch events given that so many of us will be turning up first day first show!

DKG's review was good and its possible that a non-govt vehicle style non-white FRP hard-top Thar may cut ice with a lot of us. After having read hundreds of posts on the Thar and in spite of the fact that I have just picked up a 540, I still get tempted to consider it as an option. Of course, M&M has to walk a thin line between price and perceived value. 6.5 is probably the max I'd be willing to put on the table if I ever get there!
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Old 14th May 2010, 12:56   #141
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It will be sad if the THAR does not sell only because of its look and its preconceived image.
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Old 14th May 2010, 12:58   #142
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It will be sad if the THAR does not sell only because of its look and its preconceived image.
Sad, but true. And i repeat, Mahindra is to blame for this.
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Old 14th May 2010, 13:01   #143
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It will be sad if the THAR does not sell only because of its look and its preconceived image.
I'll be sad too. But then you have to agree that this is true. I support the statements of Tejas 100% on the matter of image. Image is important.

It needs to be a looker, a modern looker. We have so many different types of things running with the 20th Century Jeep look - a fresh bold and macho look will be way more tempting. I for one, will most definitely hate it if people come up and seek help in moving a sack of potato!
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Old 14th May 2010, 13:15   #144
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Sad, but true. And i repeat, Mahindra is to blame for this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
It needs to be a looker, a modern looker.
@ 6.5 - 7.5 Lakhs?

Regards
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Old 14th May 2010, 13:20   #145
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
Super, Now I get to see the potential THAR Buyers is increasing - Kudos to BD, Spikey and the team .

1. Jaggu
2. SS Traveller
3. jeepster


Guys please add yourselves with your requirements.
Count me in as a potential Thar Buyer - for pretty much the same reasons as SS Traveller. Would use it as a daily drive and will need PS + A/C along with a lockable cabin. ABS would be a bonus.

On the few road trips we take as a family - will be the perfect vehicle. Its small enough that the wife would be comfortable driving and enough room in the back for a family of 3 plus luggage to drive around India with camping gear, bags, etc.
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Old 14th May 2010, 13:24   #146
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Originally Posted by GoSlow View Post
Its good that finally some clarity is emerging on what is the target customers. Think it is time some of us should go back to restoring our ex-army 550s. Or the Gypsy which is still a damn good offroader!
LOL Ankit, anyways, an option that DKG suggested may soon become a reality - buying used THAR and customising to our liking..


Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Very well said. The market for renovated army disposals will remain as they cater to the budget constrained offroader. But anyone who drives a Thar will not still go out and rebuild an army Jeep if he can afford the price of the Thar. The Thar will meet and exceed the offroad requirements of 99.9 % of the market. It will measure up to people's expectations of a comfortable cruiser/daily driver too. That really is its appeal. Jack of all trades !!
OK any launch dates ?

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Then what is the correct example headersji ? I have seen them suffer in the estates of Kerala for many years, and i myself have broken few parts on the old bolero there. Recently i have seen them getting butchered in BLR circuits, annual OTR was the most recent when a brand new vehicle was tortured, grounding up and breaking parts....


--------------------------------

I really don't understand why few people have such negative outlook to a product without even having tried it. It may be a success or it maybe a total failure and an overpriced product.

But common give it a chance first before writing it off!

You think I am holding on to it with something Please announce the launch dates SIRJI...TUSSE GREAT HO..




Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Yaen da machan? (Why my brother in law?) Are you:

1. Going to purchase 500 THAR's for your employees and are thus keen to know how long this product will survive in the market with proper M&M support (thus it needs to be a volume player)

2. Do you have any equity stake in M&M and believe that THAR is going to propel M&M to the league of Rolls Royce and Mclaren in the Offroad circuit?

3. Were you secretly involved in the original gameplan of THAR but was unceremoniously kicked out for raising objections about using IFS? But you still have an emotional attachment to the vehicle and want to see it flying off the shelves (and thereafter off the road)?

4. Are you secretly building some "better than OEM" spares for the THAR and so want the THAR to do well, get banged up, and then set your sales chart on fire?

5. You are a cheapskate like me and will not pay a naya paisa over 5 Lakhs ON THE ROAD including chrome fittings and 10 year extended warranty on everything including the tyres.

Look forward to seeing you again in namma ooru to discuss further.

Venkat: Let me try and answer your points..

1. Let me convinced to buy one first - then lets talk about the balance 499

2. I have no equity or stake in M&M and have no dreams as stated by you.

3. I am publicly involved in THAR right from inception and infact I suggested IFS too initially. I decided otherwise after having trouble with a similar IFS setup.

4. IMO OEM is always the best

5. I am better than you and will not spend money on a the lifetime of the vehicle. Infact would go a step further a demand money to drive the vehicle
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Old 14th May 2010, 13:35   #147
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I do not know if it is only me or if there are other members too, who agree with me. I for one, am all for the plain jane looks of THAR!

Basically, I always wanted to have a new 540/550 and waited for the THAR for close to an year and all i got was more posts on the 540 wishlist and nothing else. So, I ran out of patience and bought a Gypsy for myself.

If it was me, i would have bought a THAR as a family tourer, definitely!
But, i would not have ventured into Avalakonda sort of trails (B'lore JT 5A event). Not that, Thar cannot do it. Reading DKG's review, i am sure it can. But, i personally feel that getting the damages fixed would be a pricey affair.

I would miss the robust/sturdy mechanicals that Mahindra is known for in the Thar. Question to experts: Is Thar's mechanicals as strong as that of a 540/550?

Cheers,
Deepak

PS:I understand that to acheive a certain degree of comfort, one would have to compromise on the robustness front.
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Old 14th May 2010, 13:40   #148
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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
There is just another thing that remains - LOOKs!
The classic has been a looker, and I feel somewhat strongly about the "has been". (forgive me please!)
But this one, the Thar, sports largely the same front as the Mahindra Max Pick Up and the behind same as all earlier behinds.
If it could look anything like the new gen jeeps like cherokee or rubicon (I think these are new gen, not very sure), It will absolutely fly off the selves. The old school looks, although charming to a comitted minority, fails to appeal to us (who want a all rounder for the fun - looks - comfort), the real majority.
I am quite hopeful that Mahindra will release a face-lift if this one does well. With modern looks and all the features listed by SS-Traveller, this will fully exploit the segment opened by Premeir mini SUV (I already forgot its name).
I love the way this forum works !!

We have had a lot of discussions about just what you said and I totally second your opinion. The point we all agreed on is that there will be a lot of fans of the car in its present guise. Its flying off the shelf in SA as it looks the "heritage" Jeep. So let it have a go as a new generaiton 540 first. Perhaps called the Thar Classic?

Later, perhaps, as you said M&M can upgrade and that upgrade has been discussed in specific detail too. Its all very workable.

Great observation and suggestion.

@ Starter you are right many will love it as a new generation 540/550 !! You will have it that way for sure as its too late now to change things and who knows if enough people buy it the shape will continue forever. After all the 911 is 47 years old in design and still a hot design !!

Last edited by DKG : 14th May 2010 at 13:43.
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Old 14th May 2010, 13:54   #149
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Red face Is there any way ...

Is there any way you can seat seven facing forward?
How bad would it be seated sideways? I am going crazy like a guy caught in a revolving door. I would like to be among the buyers but need a hard top and ac naturally. We have the nations most skilled car thieves and I would hate to repeat the Bolero experience with my Thar.
Price wise 61/2 seems fair but I wouldn't really be digging my nails into the sofa if it went till seven. Would one have some cash left for thick tyres?

Chaunfa
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Old 14th May 2010, 13:59   #150
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Arka this vehicle will do all that you do with the 540. BD was telling me about the way they have a driver that drives a car into a kerb thousands of times to test how the suspension holds up.

Believe me at 170000 kms if this test car could feel solid I am inclined to conclude it will meet your reliability requirement.

There are some gear sets with Mahindra which allow for greater torque at the wheel to compensate for larger tyres.

For someone like you I see this vehicle becoming a quick favourite and you will enjoy modding it to make it meaner.

I see the following possibilities:

lower ratio gear sets for the transmission, axle, larger tyres, datasets for more torque, larger booster for brakes to be mean, roll bars and winches.

I'm sure you will get a chance to drive a Thar soon. Please look at the vehicle with a totally fresh perspective. Forget its mechanicals. Just notice how it allows you to do all that you are accustomed to do with the 540. I am pretty confident you will come away pleased. This car will up the game Arka. It will take off-roading in India to a whole new level. We have a winner and its for you and me and the many enthusiasts here.
Hi DKG,

I have no complaints about the quality of the New-Gen M&M Mechanical Systems, just their mix and match leaves much to be desired.

It quite difficult to Change the Diff-Ratio on a CRDI engine, as it will need a suitable "data set". But I prefer not to meddle with CRDI engines and prefer the stock setup on Brand New vehicle.

I have seen the consequences of a vehicle with same IFS being turned and driven into a kerb 10-12" High at a little over crawling speed.

Result = Wheel Alignment was gone, the left wheel.

I'm looking at the vehicle from a very fresh perspective, Now I can order the body parts over the shelf .

To buy a new Thar and convert it to Solid Axle and FFRA, I'm not that crazy, maybe after 2-3yr old Thar should be a good donor for this mod.

Regards,

Arka
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