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Old 19th May 2010, 17:45   #301
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Originally Posted by Kandisa View Post
It is amusing to see some people who were criticizing the overall idea of THAR, were comparing the same with restored army disposal 540/550's (& preferring the later!), even added a suffix 'CAR' to THAR are now on the verge of taking a different turn Guess the number will only increase unless an absurd price tag spoils it.
If you have been reading the THAR episodes on TBHP, you will know where i come from and what my stand is..

Also, DKG and I are pretty good when it comes to thrashing it out. Glad it amuses you though!

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Its actually quite healthy that this car has evoked so much of a debate. Believe me if it can survive this and with the conviction of the people who run M&M it gets released in India you will have a much bigger fan following once people use it for their leisure offroading and end up liking it
You think M&M are really interested in a bunch of lunatics ? I dont. They are looking at marketing their existing portfolio with least changes. [Just like any other auto company the world over does]

But what they need to do is look into the finer things..[i have already ranted enough about the same]

They will have a winner if they can get the pricing right as well as the A.S.S

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
The wish still includes an absolute on-road price of 6.5L right?
Hey the On Road Price should be under 6L da. You think guys are crazy to spend upwards and go and thrash their vehicles offroad

A straight comparison is an used NGCS 550. With all the bells and whistles of the THAR it can be done under 5L and it will be much more capable off road.

And since i'm busy with other projects right now, the bookings are temporarily suspended
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Old 19th May 2010, 18:06   #302
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Originally Posted by adzegeek View Post
Can I take this as fairly good idea of release date then?
I suppose it would be fair to say that some people at M&M are working toward that, but its still not official. Besides I don't represent or am associated with the company in any way. Your guess is as good as mine I want it bad though. If I had the Thar today I would have headed into the Himalayas in July to see the Valley of Flowers !!
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Old 19th May 2010, 18:21   #303
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think guys are crazy to spend upwards and go and thrash their vehicles offroad
Vikram sir, I'd not mind. "If" I had that kind of money that is.
Anyway that is me.

Having said that, I'll keep my eyes open for a Bolero / Gypsy / Indigo from now on.

Jeepers (Need to say more ?)
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Old 19th May 2010, 19:05   #304
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I don't understand how a vehicle with the same dynamics of the 540 albeit a different engine and IFS can be so different when it comes to handling. How can it be so different that you feel it inspires so much more confidence than in a 540.

Someone please enlighten me.
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Old 19th May 2010, 19:17   #305
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I don't understand how a vehicle with the same dynamics of the 540 albeit a different engine and IFS can be so different when it comes to handling. How can it be so different that you feel it inspires so much more confidence than in a 540.

Someone please enlighten me.
Drive IT bala, Drive IT.

That is If you are one of the chosen few to do so
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Old 19th May 2010, 19:25   #306
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Originally Posted by fiery enzyme View Post
I don't understand how a vehicle with the same dynamics of the 540 albeit a different engine and IFS can be so different when it comes to handling. How can it be so different that you feel it inspires so much more confidence than in a 540.

Someone please enlighten me.
Bala its not rocket science or hidden secret. Some points i feel that contributes:

- Design of chassis
- Design of suspension and more modern steering setup
- Axle dimensions
- Engine placement/mounting etc to the chassis
- Lakhs of kms of road testing and fine tuning

All these along with a more modern manufacturing approach which would definitely include complex software for design itself can achieve a hell lot of difference.

And availability of these resources under one roof is what we and our road side mechanics lack, compared to the manufacturer.

How i wish a petrol CJ avatar with all modern mechanicals come out. Sighhhhh!
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Old 19th May 2010, 19:59   #307
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Bala its not rocket science or hidden secret. Some points i feel that contributes:

- Design of chassis
- Design of suspension and more modern steering setup
- Axle dimensions
- Engine placement/mounting etc to the chassis
- Lakhs of kms of road testing and fine tuning

All these along with a more modern manufacturing approach which would definitely include complex software for design itself can achieve a hell lot of difference.

And availability of these resources under one roof is what we and our road side mechanics lack, compared to the manufacturer.
jAGGU, The steering sucks IMO, it is not a strong point. Please dont tell me its modern..

And what is so special in the axle dimensions if i may ask??

Agreed, its a old block new engine with BS4 parameters, but thats it. Lets not give undue praise my friend!!
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Old 19th May 2010, 20:01   #308
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Ahh.. I did not know that Chassis Design and the Axle dimensions went through major rework. Looks like there have been some converts lately.

I still have a major grouse with the Thar. See, I'm old school and the front doesnt seem to be articulating enough for me. There is picture in the 'dress up the Thar thread' where there is nice rear articulation, but the front seems to be dead to me.

I will keep my mind open till I see her in flesh.
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Old 19th May 2010, 21:19   #309
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If you have been reading the THAR episodes on TBHP, you will know where i come from and what my stand is..
Yes i 've been sir, right from day one! And if you are clear on your stand, give it a pass to my comment because it was regarding people who were gradually changing their views from an extreme negative reactions
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Old 19th May 2010, 21:37   #310
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Originally Posted by fiery enzyme View Post
I don't understand how a vehicle with the same dynamics of the 540 albeit a different engine and IFS can be so different when it comes to handling. How can it be so different that you feel it inspires so much more confidence than in a 540.
Offroad they may be the same, its not important for me to decide which is better. All that matters is the Thar will allow me to go any place a 540 or a CJ3B will go

BUT !! The similarity ends there my friend. If you are talking about handling on road its chalk and cheese. There is no comparison or contest. Nothing from Mahindra's stable ever produced for offroading handled so supremely on road as the Thar does. The IFS makes a dramatic difference here. And so does the steering. Its not vague and uncommunicative. For a good handling car the steering needs to pick up feedback efficiently at the tyre contact patch and this one does so efficiently.

The dynamics of a 540 and Thar are anything but the same.

BTW offroad the CJ3B is a darling and will always endear itself on account of its stark simplicity and minimalist approach. I'm sure the 540/550 endears itself to many offroad for similar reasons. The Thar will too !

Last edited by DKG : 19th May 2010 at 21:54.
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Old 19th May 2010, 22:54   #311
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
jAGGU, The steering sucks IMO, it is not a strong point. Please dont tell me its modern..

And what is so special in the axle dimensions if i may ask??

Agreed, its a old block new engine with BS4 parameters, but thats it. Lets not give undue praise my friend!!
Have you driven it to make a comment that the steering sucks?! I haven't and i cant comment!

All i meant was that a modern design compared to a prehistoric steering box set up that other old jeeps have will make a difference, similarly a wider axle will give it better handling. Thats all!!

Stop posting negative comments for the sake of just being negative, i really don't understand why you carry so much negativity towards a jeep!! What has it done to you??!

The gypsy you drive is as basic as it gets and its bloody overpriced in our market, but it rockz!! i say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiery enzyme View Post
Ahh.. I did not know that Chassis Design and the Axle dimensions went through major rework. Looks like there have been some converts lately.

I still have a major grouse with the Thar. See, I'm old school and the front doesnt seem to be articulating enough for me. There is picture in the 'dress up the Thar thread' where there is nice rear articulation, but the front seems to be dead to me.

I will keep my mind open till I see her in flesh.
Atleast you are open to ideas, so let me clear my message a bit. I was pointing to difference that could have possibly made difference to handling. Its not that very complex to figure out, thats all!

Well old school, articulation etc is once personal choice. But right now if i need to make a dash to Pune to attend the Alfa Kilo challenge, i wouldn't have to sit and break my head if i had a Thar. And i might have just done the trip in AC comfort without being tossed around like in a gypsy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

This was supposed to be a review of the vehicle by someone who actually tried it. Not a stress interview to get the Thar project passed by some great 4x4 gurus for it be sold in India.

Share the feedback in a better way and people might just listen, or all this negativity will be just ignored like many of the members here have already started doing. Thats all. My 2 paisa worth!
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Old 19th May 2010, 23:26   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kandisa View Post
It is amusing to see some people who were criticizing the overall idea of THAR, were comparing the same with restored army disposal 540/550's (& preferring the later!), even added a suffix 'CAR' to THAR are now on the verge of taking a different turn Guess the number will only increase unless an absurd price tag spoils it.
Sir this if for me and not for anyone else!

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
If you have been reading the THAR episodes on TBHP, you will know where i come from and what my stand is..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kandisa View Post
Yes i 've been sir, right from day one! And if you are clear on your stand, give it a pass to my comment because it was regarding people who were gradually changing their views from an extreme negative reactions
yes its for me and not for anyone else!

well all i can say is different mood swings and thats why you see different replies on my posts!
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Old 20th May 2010, 00:07   #313
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Well old school, articulation etc is once personal choice. But right now if i need to make a dash to Pune to attend the Alfa Kilo challenge, i wouldn't have to sit and break my head if i had a Thar. And i might have just done the trip in AC comfort without being tossed around like in a gypsy.
You are right. It was merely my observation and is purely personal. This factor will come in to play only for me , If I ever consider buying the Thar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post

This was supposed to be a review of the vehicle by someone who actually tried it. Not a stress interview to get the Thar project passed by some great 4x4 gurus for it be sold in India.

Share the feedback in a better way and people might just listen, or all this negativity will be just ignored like many of the members here have already started doing. Thats all. My 2 paisa worth!
I think all the positivity and negativity creates a fine balance

On a serious note Jaggu, someone I know once said,

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Most of the people who have been vocal about the Thar are essentially passionate enthusiasts. Its only natural that since they love the venerable Jeep they will eventually appreciate the Thar ( I believe this because I know it won't disappoint many).

Its actually quite healthy that this car has evoked so much of a debate. Believe me if it can survive this and with the conviction of the people who run M&M it gets released in India you will have a much bigger fan following once people use it for their leisure offroading and end up liking it
so, lets see.
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Old 20th May 2010, 00:14   #314
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Bala debating is healthy, sarcasm and mocking is not, at the end of the day we all are matured adults right? why play the fool. And no am not pointing at you
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Old 20th May 2010, 06:33   #315
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Have you driven it to make a comment that the steering sucks?! I haven't and i cant comment!
I can very well understand the limitations of a R&P PS setup in an offroad vehicle. And even on road, if you compare it to a car, it is vague. My daily drive is a vehicle that shares many components from the THAR and the steering is one of them. Hence my justified POV for not driving the THAR!

...
Quote:
Stop posting negative comments for the sake of just being negative, i really don't understand why you carry so much negativity towards a jeep!!
One could also look at it in a different way. Why are forums there in the first place? To understand both sides of a story.


Quote:
The gypsy you drive is as basic as it gets and its bloody overpriced in our market, but it rockz!! i say.
I never said gypsy is a car with bells and whistles my friend.


Quote:
But right now if i need to make a dash to Pune to attend the Alfa Kilo challenge, i wouldn't have to sit and break my head if i had a Thar. And i might have just done the trip in AC comfort without being tossed around like in a gypsy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Share the feedback in a better way and people might just listen, or all this negativity will be just ignored like many of the members here have already started doing. Thats all. My 2 paisa worth!
We put our thoughts on the forum for people to read and understand, not appreciate it with oohs and wows..
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