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Old 20th May 2010, 10:46   #316
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Default Weight Distribution

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Thanks for the reply. By the way the 540 handles, I would suspect a front bias more than 55:45. I think the Thar is better balanced.

Now to get hold of a weighbridge whose owner will not come after me with a tyre iron when I drive sideways onto the bridge!

So Spike, how about sharing the actual figures?
What is the weight of the NEF (with accessories) as used in the Thar?
Hi Sutripta,

I Weight Bias/Weight Distribution is one of the Factors for Good Handling.

Some Factors which I can think of

1) Chassis Dynamics
2) Suspension
3) Weight Distribution
4) Track Width
5) Body Style/Body Mounting
6) Tyres(Contact Patch.
7) Centre of Gravity

The biggest Draw back with the MM540 is that the body is very wide with respect to the Chassis. (the doors are 12" from the Chassis approx)

The Body Roll is very pronounced on a MM540/MM550, you can actually feel the body flap, while turning fast.

This can be countered by wider body beds (Out Riggers from Armada/Grand/Bolero), the same has been incorporated on the Single Cab pick Ups, under the Cab.

If we go by Weight Distribution/Bias then the JEEP Wrangler's would be handling as well as WRC Cars, weight Distribution being similar.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 20th May 2010, 12:04   #317
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I have a question about warrantee:

Mahindra will be marketing this vehicle as a lifestyle 4x4 off roader. Does that mean that Mahindra will freely replace/repair parts broken due to off roading like leaf springs for example? Why i'm asking is that GSFerrari's brand new gypsy broke a front leaf in 2 months and Maruti refused to replace it free saying you went off road with it. Too bad.

Another Q to BD: you told us that you can do easy mods to Thar like, just change tyres, bolt on AC, etc. Will Mahindra not void warrantee if this is done? If IFS or PS fails, they will just say, "Boss, bigger tyres caused this".

Disclaimer: I know a last few of my posts seem to go anti Thar. I'm in no way trying to rubbish the product. I loved the Thar when i drove it (infact i was blown away; and yes she could do a lot in 2WD!). I'm just being a realist and playing devil's advocate. I personally will recommend it to everyone. Hope i am clear.
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Old 20th May 2010, 12:17   #318
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Generally warranty will not be honored if used for anything apart from regular use the vehicle is recommended for and usage of approved accessories by the manufacturer. So it will be based on M&M definition of regular use and accessories for Thar

So its going to be a life style vehicle? Is this confirmed?
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Old 20th May 2010, 12:21   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
I have a question about warrantee:

Mahindra will be marketing this vehicle as a lifestyle 4x4 off roader. Does that mean that Mahindra will freely replace/repair parts broken due to off roading like leaf springs for example? Why i'm asking is that GSFerrari's brand new gypsy broke a front leaf in 2 months and Maruti refused to replace it free saying you went off road with it. Too bad.
what is one supposed to do with MG413 W 4x4?

its made for offroad!!

dumb maruti guys!
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Old 20th May 2010, 12:29   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
I have a question about warrantee:

Mahindra will be marketing this vehicle as a lifestyle 4x4 off roader. Does that mean that Mahindra will freely replace/repair parts broken due to off roading like leaf springs for example? Why i'm asking is that GSFerrari's brand new gypsy broke a front leaf in 2 months and Maruti refused to replace it free saying you went off road with it. Too bad.

Another Q to BD: you told us that you can do easy mods to Thar like, just change tyres, bolt on AC, etc. Will Mahindra not void warrantee if this is done? If IFS or PS fails, they will just say, "Boss, bigger tyres caused this".

Disclaimer: I know a last few of my posts seem to go anti Thar. I'm in no way trying to rubbish the product. I loved the Thar when i drove it (infact i was blown away; and yes she could do a lot in 2WD!). I'm just being a realist and playing devil's advocate. I personally will recommend it to everyone. Hope i am clear.


..... I have the same doubts....even if it becomes a legal tangle , will M&M be able to prove that the vehicle went off - road ? Ooops...sorry DB sir, but this is a genuine query.

Dr.Jones
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Old 20th May 2010, 12:46   #321
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Default M&M and Off-Road

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
I have a question about warrantee:

Mahindra will be marketing this vehicle as a lifestyle 4x4 off roader. Does that mean that Mahindra will freely replace/repair parts broken due to off roading like leaf springs for example? Why i'm asking is that GSFerrari's brand new gypsy broke a front leaf in 2 months and Maruti refused to replace it free saying you went off road with it. Too bad.

Another Q to BD: you told us that you can do easy mods to Thar like, just change tyres, bolt on AC, etc. Will Mahindra not void warrantee if this is done? If IFS or PS fails, they will just say, "Boss, bigger tyres caused this".
There will be a Clause, In the Owners Handbook

The Guarantee will be void if the vehicle participates in any Off-Road event which;
i) requires the use of the front axle
ii) conducted/organised managed by JEEPTHRILLS.
iii) conducted/organised/managed by TEAM-BHP.

and after 2 Years the further addition

iv) Do not install LSD/Differential Locks/ Auto Locking Devices.
v) Do not install the Scorpio Auto Locking Hubs.
vi) refrain from using off-road, or engaging 4WD this is a lifestyle vehicle.

Regards,

Arka

PS - The above are inspired by real life incident involving a Scorpio 4WD, belonging to a famous Photographer, and finally the issue was resolved with Mr.Anand Mahindra interfering.
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Old 20th May 2010, 12:49   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
...The gypsy you drive is as basic as it gets and its bloody overpriced in our market, but it rockz!! i say.
Offcourse it is highly overpriced and i 've seen the justification being attributed to "gearbox,t-case & some drivetrain components". But after all gypsy is a gypsy and has some awesomely unique performance behaviour of its own. With the same logic, adding some more upgrades & comfort factor, THAR in all probability will deserve some premium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
...debating is healthy, sarcasm and mocking is not, at the end of the day we all are matured adults right?..
Very well said. Unfortunately some people depend on these two more often than a straightforward kind of statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
...Well old school, articulation etc is once personal choice. But right now if i need to make a dash to Pune to attend the Alfa Kilo challenge, i wouldn't have to sit and break my head if i had a Thar. And i might have just done the trip in AC comfort without being tossed around like in a gypsy....
+10 to that. As long as a jeep is capable of performing its desired task (touring/off-roading) in a more or less satisfactory & reliable manner,at least i am least bothered how much it articulates or something like that. A reliable, go anywhere anytime, offorad capable & highway friendly kind of jeep is a myth as of now. If THAR can break that (from the reviews it seems it will) it will be dream for some people.

So what is the next destination of THAR after Bangalore? Any chance of seeing it in the national capital region in near future?

OT: strange to hear the new gypsy experience. Tejas, you have raised a very valid discussion.

Last edited by Kandisa : 20th May 2010 at 12:51.
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Old 20th May 2010, 12:54   #323
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When you look at it from your perspective this will appear to be a highly confusing and subjective issue about warranty coverage.

Take heart in the fact that a manufacturer's survival depends on success of a product in the market. They watch what happens to it. If there is a defect in the product it will start manifesting in terms of failures pretty soon. They will start getting reports of it from around the country or in part when it relates to only a batch of vehicles.

In most cases a manufacturer will acknowledge within if not to you the fact of a defective component in their product.

Stray cases of product failure will be looked at at face value. Usually you can tell a car has been abused causing a component to fail. If the gears in your differential wear out or an axle breaks they usually know the car was subjected to loads not normal. Hence the usual refusal to entertain requests for broken springs etc.

For most part you should be fair about it yourself. If you are going to overload your car in offroad conditions chances are you may damage something but you need to own up to what you subjected it to.

Lets say a lot of 4x4 owners complain about axles snapping when they attempt to come out of diff deep slush then perhaps the mfg will relook at axle load factors and reengineer the product and perhaps honour a warranty claim.

But from across the country you have only one person calling up every six months saying his axle snapped when he tried to get out of mud chances are he will not be a happy camper !!

Last edited by DKG : 20th May 2010 at 12:56.
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Old 20th May 2010, 12:57   #324
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Default Warranteeee!!!

Tejas, Arka,

You opened up a pandora's box I think. Agreed, the tech aspects off a 4x4 are worth debating with the maker. But, a differnt aspect of a debate. Will the manufacturer accept to replace a part which is broken in a OTR - after saying it will do things in 2WD.

Arka, may be you should highlight important examples of the Scorp 4x4 Vs Anand... One should not be convinced to buy a 6-7L Jeep thru highlighting all the good things it can do Off-road - but dis-honour the warranty aspect. 6-7L is a lot of money!!!

Example - clutch burning due to not engaging 4wd, believing 2wd is enough for a obstacle? I am not even going to talk about axle breakage - and go into FFRA drift...
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Old 20th May 2010, 13:06   #325
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Can some one please change the title of this thread ?
In my opinion "she blows" in contemporary slang is not a compliment at all but equivalent to "she sucks' or even nastier.

PS : "Thar She blows" even in classical sense is used for beached whale sighted , A beached whale is something not required as an offroader. If my understanding is wrong please correct me.

Last edited by amitk26 : 20th May 2010 at 13:16.
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Old 20th May 2010, 13:12   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
When you look at it from your perspective this will appear to be a highly confusing and subjective issue about warranty coverage.

Take heart in the fact that a manufacturer's survival depends on success of a product in the market. They watch what happens to it. If there is a defect in the product it will start manifesting in terms of failures pretty soon. They will start getting reports of it from around the country or in part when it relates to only a batch of vehicles.

In most cases a manufacturer will acknowledge within if not to you the fact of a defective component in their product.

Stray cases of product failure will be looked at at face value. Usually you can tell a car has been abused causing a component to fail. If the gears in your differential wear out or an axle breaks they usually know the car was subjected to loads not normal. Hence the usual refusal to entertain requests for broken springs etc.

For most part you should be fair about it yourself. If you are going to overload your car in offroad conditions chances are you may damage something but you need to own up to what you subjected it to.

Lets say a lot of 4x4 owners complain about axles snapping when they attempt to come out of diff deep slush then perhaps the mfg will relook at axle load factors and reengineer the product and perhaps honour a warranty claim.

But from across the country you have only one person calling up every six months saying his axle snapped when he tried to get out of mud chances are he will not be a happy camper !!
Hi DKG,

The Off-Road Scenario is changing rapidly.

LSD/Diff-Locks/MT Tyres are becoming readily available.

If will give you a few scenarios wrt. to off-road circuit.

If a guy picks up a Thar

1) Fits Front Lockers.
2) Rear Locker.
3) Changes the Diff-Ratio.
4) Remaps the ECU/Piggy Back Box etc (in today's world this is the easiest thing).
5) Fit aggressive MT Tyres.
6) Takes it off-road.

The Front Axle and Steering System is stressed the most.

Enough has been said about Solid Axle & FFRA.

But I have deliberately abused (turn into a Kerb, 8" and 15" approx) the OKBJ and MRCBT on 2 occasions and it does not flinch, the same sends the R&P+ IFS running to the Tyre Shop.

The above situation are common off-road.

With the older steering set up, you develop wheel wobble and steering play.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 20th May 2010, 13:14   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Can some one please change the title of this thread ?
In my opinion "she blows" in contemporary slang is not a compliment at all but equivalent to "she sucks' or even nastier.

If my understanding is wrong please correct me.

you gotta report this post to the mod team amit26. But I get your POV and I agree!!
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Old 20th May 2010, 13:16   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
In my opinion "she blows" in contemporary slang is not a compliment at all but equivalent to "she sucks' or even nastier.
Ha ha ha ha... that cracked me up. I know what you are thinking with the blows part

There she blows is an expression used while spotting whales. When a whale needs to breathe air it first blows off water from its nostrils (situated on top of its head) before it breathes in. This is seen from far away distances.

The term is widely analogous to sighting something before it is visible.

So in this case, Thar she blows is like saying here it comes or is making its presence felt.
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Old 20th May 2010, 13:18   #329
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Hi Amit, the title "Thar, she blows" was first used in the classic book Moby Dick.
Though it has multiple connotations, it is most commonly used in for the build up of expectations of an event everyone has been waiting for.
Though its also used in negative events, I think this one is more for the positive one

Edit: Means pretty much what Spitfire has mentioned.

Last edited by sammyboy : 20th May 2010 at 13:20.
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Old 20th May 2010, 13:19   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Ha ha ha ha... that cracked me up. I know what you are thinking with the blows part

There she blows is an expression used while spotting whales. When a whale needs to breathe air it first blows off water from its nostrils (situated on top of its head) before it breathes in. This is seen from far away distances.
No as you can see in my edit even if I do not see "she blows" in isolation "Thar she blows" is not appropriate for offraoder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
The term is widely analogous to sighting something before it is visible.

So in this case, Thar she blows is like saying here it comes or is making its presence felt.
Ok it makes sense now to me thanks
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